41 Writers Return Indian Award, Cite Climate of Intolerance

[Samudra Manthan]

The point was about Social festivals like diwali and ganesh chaturti being compared to community events like community yagna. YOU were the one who assumed that we are required to have yagnas instead of crackers. Not my problem.

I never said there are no personal yagnas.

Diwali and Ganesh Chaturtis are personal and social events. There is puja at home as well as in community on both occasions. So bringing in Yagna which can be both personal and communal is a poor comparison for your argument.

Shiva was marrying the daughter of a king. No one is asking for a boring wedding, only a responsible wedding.

Our marriages are meant to replicate kings daughters and sons weddings. That is the whole point because our children are so precious, their wedding days are as good as those of prince and princesses.

Shivas wedding had huge amount of musical processions and all kind of people in the party. None of them were concerned for environment on that day.

That is exactly what RELIGIOUS festivals are for. A day to REINFORCE our values.

I am not bothered about what christens practice. That is your burden to carry, not mine.

There are community festivals like Vishu or Baishaki, then there are religious festivals like dushera. Both serve separate functions and you cannot bunch them together.

If our entire life is a celebration, then one do not need any festival. That is a self defeating line of argument.

No, I do not concur. Our values and reinforced every single day of our lives and our celebrations were meant to be a community affair for joy and celebration. That is why the Shivas and Vaishnavas wear the marks on their forehead reminding them of their mortality or their god's blessing. Not just on festival days but every single day of their lives. Hindus are one people who live their values and hence every Hindu house is a temple with a shrine in it. I do not know where you got the idea that we only live our values on our festival days. That day we share our joys with the wider community.

Our entire life is a celebration and hence we have festivals throughout the year unlike other religions which have just one or two days of festivals a year. Every single day is a special day with something or other special about it.

 

[Niyogi]

Diwali and Ganesh Chaturtis are personal and social events. There is puja at home as well as in community on both occasions. So bringing in Yagna which can be both personal and communal is a poor comparison for your argument.

All religious festivals are personal events. But certain festivals have a social celebratory element to it. But that is not the essence of the festival.

Dandiya is not the essence of Navratri, reaffirming faith in the goddess is, fighting for dharma is.

You were the one who claimed that every person conducting a personal yagna for a social event festival is more polluting. That itself was a strawman argument. I only provided explanation about the different yagnas.

Our marriages are meant to replicate kings daughters and sons weddings. That is the whole point because our children are so precious, their wedding days are as good as those of prince and princesses.

Shivas wedding had huge amount of musical processions and all kind of people in the party. None of them were concerned for environment on that day.

Who said otherwise ? Its not about how precious our children are, its also about how precious our values and our environment is. Are you not the same person who once said that Hindu values teach us not to be selfish but live for others ? take care of parents, society etc. ?

You cannot claim that I will eat beef for one day and will not worry about dharma for one day. The day my child gets married

What kind of logic is that ?

 

[Echo_419]

that would be better than the opportunistic BS they are engaging in.. As much as a big issue these people are trying to make, nobody really gives a damn about them...

I agree

 

[Niyogi]

No, I do not concur. Our values and reinforced every single day of our lives and our celebrations were meant to be a community affair for joy and celebration. That is why the Shivas and Vaishnavas wear the marks on their forehead reminding them of their mortality or their god's blessing. Not just on festival days but every single day of their lives. Hindus are one people who live their values and hence every Hindu house is a temple with a shrine in it. I do not know where you got the idea that we only live our values on our festival days. That day we share our joys with the wider community.

Our entire life is a celebration and hence we have festivals throughout the year unlike other religions which have just one or two days of festivals a year. Every single day is a special day with something or other special about it.

Our values are not reinforced everyday, only burdens and troubles are.

The same ones that make you forget your values and make people take the easy path.

THAT is why we have Religious festivals. To help us reinforce those values even in times of stress, especially in times of stress.

Every person do not spend their time contemplating religion, values, ethics or morality, they are busy trying to make a living, survive in a dog eat dog world. Over time pooja's become rituals, rather than devices and means of personal awakening, reawakening. Religious festivals break the monotony. Community participation helps reinforcing these values over the larger community.

I do not know where you get the idea that the whole concept of festival is to spread "joy" and "kindness" in the world. Sounds like the definition of christmas

 

[Samudra Manthan]

Religious values seep into social and cultural values. Not the other way around.

Social practices may seep into Religious practices.

But the guiding principle of any religions practice is religious VALUES it promotes, not politically expedient practice.

You are again assigning "reason" and "motives" to my talking about Ganesh chaturti. Again not my problem. Stick to what I have said.

I said the civil disobedience part of the festival is no longer "required" sine it has already served it purpose. IT may serve a new purpose now, but its old purpose has been served.

I am not giving out ideas of non polluting celebrations. I leave that to the individuals choices. I am talking about the bigger picture. The actions which should be guided by the values.

Nope. Our religious values and society and culture were built keeping in mind both at the same time. This is how our Rishis designed our society. Manu Smirti was all about societal aspect of our lives in accordance with our religion and values.

I am not assigning you reasons and motives for when you talked about Ganesh Chaturti, this is what you said:

Ganesh Chaturti was started as a Political event during British Time and Tilak encouraged social, cultural and political mass mobility through thsi event.

The festival was celebrate as a mark of protest, a "disobedience" movement.

Today we have a Hindutva govt. in the center and in many states. What is the point of nuisance now ? IT serves no purpose. We are only cutting our nose to spite the face.

For you it is a nuisance now and there is no point or purpose to it. So no where did you state that it may serve a new purpose. Clearly you were equating the festival with cutting our nose to spite the face. So you are one lying and Shame on you.

I am not giving out ideas of non polluting celebrations. I leave that to the individuals choices. I am talking about the bigger picture. The actions which should be guided by the values.

You clearly were. The bigger picture is these celebrations are once in a year event. We live responsibly as per our values throughout the year as it is and even our festivals are in accordance with our values only. No need to push it.

 

[Gandhi follower]

Hypocrites of the highest order ....

 

[Samudra Manthan]

All religious festivals are personal events. But certain festivals have a social celebratory element to it. But that is not the essence of the festival.

Dandiya is not the essence of Navratri, reaffirming faith in the goddess is, fighting for dharma is.

You were the one who claimed that every person conducting a personal yagna for a social event festival is more polluting. That itself was a strawman argument. I only provided explanation about the different yagnas.

Dandiya is the essence of Navratri but not the only essence. It is celebration over the winning of Dharma and in reverence of Maa Durga. That victory calls for celebration. Your interpretation of religion is very very Abrahamic and austere killjoy which views celebration as defilement.

Yes because all our festivals are designed such that it becomes both personal and communal affairs and hence a personal yagna is not out of question and that is what a Diwali with Yagna would have meant.

Who said otherwise ? Its not about how precious our children are, its also about how precious our values and our environment is. Are you not the same person who once said that Hindu values teach us not to be selfish but live for others ? take care of parents, society etc. ?

You cannot claim that I will eat beef for one day and will not worry about dharma for one day. The day my child gets married

What kind of logic is that ?

Yes, Hindu values teaches us not to be selfish and hence I request you to not be a killjoy and kill all the merriment out of our children's lives. There is no contradiction between celebrating festivals and being dharmic. Unlike Abrahamic faiths which veer towards either being black or white, we understand about balancing our lives with the environment so that both have a place. It is not an either or question.

Here, get acquainted with Ying-Yang.

Our values are not reinforced everyday, only burdens and troubles are.

The same ones that make you forget your values and make people take the easy path.

THAT is why we have Religious festivals. To help us reinforce those values even in times of stress, especially in times of stress.

Every person do not spend their time contemplating religion, values, ethics or morality, they are busy trying to make a living, survive in a dog eat dog world. Over time pooja's become rituals, rather than devices and means of personal awakening, reawakening. Religious festivals break the monotony. Community participation helps reinforcing these values over the larger community.

I do not know where you get the idea that the whole concept of festival is to spread "joy" and "kindness" in the world. Sounds like the definition of christmas

What? Only our burdens and troubles are reinforced everyday? Sorry, that is not at all my understanding of my religion at all.

My values get reinforced every single day when I refuse to take the easy path and I see my society doing the same. This is still a hardworking honest society sir. We have not degenerated into the pits of hell despite all our poverty and tribulations.

No, our festivals are for celebrations and a respite. A day of coming together and sharing of joy. Festivals were designed to keep the economy thriving with a moral message of course.

In fact it is your understanding of Hinduism which is out of whack. Celebrations with feasts from the times of the Gods were not for spiritual contemplation. Ever.

 

[Niyogi]

Nope. Our religious values and society and culture were built keeping in mind both at the same time. This is how our Rishis designed our society. Manu Smirti was all about societal aspect of our lives in accordance with our religion and values.

Socities are not "built". They EVOLVE.

Its random, unorganized and Organic, not structured and inorganic.

Our Rishi's found a way to organize the unorganized. Manu Smriti is a "Smriti", a book that provides guidelines and governs social living which in turn is guided by Hindu values.

I am not assigning you reasons and motives for when you talked about Ganesh Chaturti, this is what you said:
For you it is a nuisance now and there is no point or purpose to it. So no where did you state that it may serve a new purpose. Clearly you were equating the festival with cutting our nose to spite the face. So you are one lying and Shame on you.

The "nuisance" aspect of it is real and separate from the religious significance of the festival. Its history speaks of its political purpose, which is served now. Which is what I said and that is the truth.

If it serves a new purpose now that is a separate matter, and has no bearing on my point. There is no compulsion on me to say it. It is within my right not to say it. You however have no right to ASSUME what I mean. So the shame is all yours.

What that new purpose is, is not clear nor defined. One aspect is money making. Other aspect is a booming commercial industry that provide manufacturing and service and trade in flowers, sweets etc. Other aspect is political influence and networking. Another would be consumption of fuel and pollution of the sea and water supply. Another would be traffic problem and hence public holiday / half day to many.

There are plenty of nuisance aspect to the current day celebration. Who can deny this ? I am specifically talking about the Nuisance of POLLUTION which was the topic of the debate. SOUND POLLUTION, WATER POLLUTION, Light Pollution, chemical pollution, environmental degradation etc all of which can and should be addressed as part of our Hindu Value system.

You clearly were. The bigger picture is these celebrations are once in a year event. We live responsibly as per our values throughout the year as it is and even our festivals are in accordance with our values only. No need to push it.

I am not in agreement that certain of our celebratory practices of our religious festivals are in accordance with our Hindu values. All kinds of pollution comes under it.

There is a need for hindus to refine our practices in line with our values. That is evolution and practising what we preach. Neither shameful nor contradictory.

Dandiya is the essence of Navratri but not the only essence. It is celebration over the winning of Dharma and in reverence of Maa Durga. That victory calls for celebration. Your interpretation of religion is very very Abrahamic and austere killjoy which views celebration as defilement.

Yes because all our festivals are designed such that it becomes both personal and communal affairs and hence a personal yagna is not out of question and that is what a Diwali with Yagna would have meant.

Dandiya is a PRACTICE, Not the essence. Both are not the same.

One of the essential practices of Navratri is FASTING. Another is Dandiya. Third is Garba.

You are free to compare it with Abrahamic or any other religion. As I said, that is not my burden, its yours.

"ALL" our religious significant occasions are not "festivals", nor are not designed to be communal affairs.

E.g. Vaikunta Ekadashi or Shiv Ratri is not a communal festival. In south people do not venture out during Shiv Ratri.

Yes, Hindu values teaches us not to be selfish and hence I request you to not be a killjoy and kill all the merriment out of our children's lives. There is no contradiction between celebrating festivals and not being dharmic. Unlike Abrahamic faiths which veer towards either being black or white, we understand about balancing our lives with the environment so that both have a place. It is not an either or question.

Here, get acquainted with Ying-Yang.

View attachment 264565

You continue to talk about Abrahamic faith and Chinese symbolism. They do not interest me.

And I am not anybody to steal "joy" and "merriment" from our children's lives. Sounds very much like "how the grinch stole christmas".

Take a deep breath and listen to yourself.

There is a contradiction about HOW WE PRACTICE and What our Dharma guides us to do. My entire post has been about explaining that POV.

What? Only our burdens and troubles are reinforced everyday? Sorry, that is not at all my understanding of my religion at all.

No, that is not the definition of religion. That is the definition of LIFE.

My values get reinforced every single day when I refuse to take the easy path and I see my society doing the same. This is still a hardworking honest society sir. We have not degenerated into the pits of hell despite all our poverty and tribulations.

Your "personal" journey, that has no relevance here. ......... (I am happy for you, if its true).

No, our festivals are for celebrations and a respite. A day of coming together and sharing of joy. Festivals were designed to keep the economy thriving with a moral message of course.

In fact it is your understanding of Hinduism which is out of whack. Celebrations with feasts from the times of the Gods were not for spiritual contemplation. Ever.

Certain Religious festivals may have an economic and communal angle to it, but that is not what they are designed to do.

I am sorry to say, but you "definition" sounds like what Walmart wants to promote. Not what hindu religion promote.


Finally listen to yourself. "day of respite", "sharing of joy", "day of coming together (homecoming)" ....... what religion does that remind you of ?

 

[Samudra Manthan]

Socities are not "built". They EVOLVE.

Its random, organized and Organic, not structured and inorganic.

Our Rishi's found a way to organize the unorganized. Manu Smriti is a "Smriti", a book that provides guidlines and governs social living which in turn is guided by Hindu values.

Our society was designed as such and yes we evolved, but not as much as the other societies. We were essentially a static society in harmony with the world. Yes our Rishis organized us or designed our societies such that it was in keeping with our religious values via Smritis.

The "nuisance" aspect of it is real and separate from the religious significance of the festival. Its history speaks of its political purpose, which is served now. Which is what I said and that is the truth.

If it serves a new purpose now that is a separate matter, and has no bearing on my point. There is no compulsion on me to say it. It is within my right not to say it. You however have no right to ASSUME what I mean. So the shame is all yours.

What that new purpose is, is not clear nor defined. One aspect is money making. Other aspect is a booming commercial industry that provide manufacturing and service and trade in flowers, sweets etc. Other aspect is political influence and networking. Another would be consumption of fuel and pollution of the sea and water supply. Another would be traffic problem and hence public holiday / half day to many.

There are plenty of nuisance aspect to the current day celebration. Who can deny this ? I am specifically talking about the Nuisance of POLLUTION which was the topic of the debate. SOUND POLLUTION, WATER POLLUTION, Light Pollution, chemical pollution, environmental degradation etc all of which can and should be addressed as part of our Hindu Value system.

I do not agree. It has much more significance now than it had before because of the loss of Hindu space. Before independence we were a staunch Hindu society with people rallying for Hindu Ram Rajya. Today it is not so. The last decades of secularism and progressiveness has eroded our values and our religious perspective more than ever with literally half the population not even identifying themselves as Hindus. It is in this context Ganesha Chaturti assumes even more importance. Its proliferation from Maharashtra to other states and other countries even is precisely because of its pull as a spectacular event. That would not have been possible if it had stayed a small dreary private affair.

If it serves a new purpose now that is a separate matter, and has no bearing on my point. There is no compulsion on me to say it. It is within my right not to say it. You however have no right to ASSUME what I mean. So the shame is all yours.

This is not what you said at all and it was clear as a day what you said and what you meant. Everyone can see who is lying here.

What that new purpose is, is not clear nor defined. One aspect is money making. Other aspect is a booming commercial industry that provide manufacturing and service and trade in flowers, sweets etc. Other aspect is political influence and networking. Another would be consumption of fuel and pollution of the sea and water supply. Another would be traffic problem and hence public holiday / half day to many.

The purpose is both political, economical, social, and religious. In fact I would mark it as one of the most important events in raising our consciousness as a Hindu society. Like everything in life, there are drawbacks to this festival too, but the benefits clearly outweigh the negatives. Any and every degradation will be addressed as happens with everything. Already in cities without seashore line, there are separate water tanks built for immersion so that that the lakes do not get polluted. Likewise, there will always be some solution acceptable to the celebrators with everything.

I am not in agreement that certain of our celebratory practices of our religious festivals are in accordance with our Hindu values. All kinds of pollution comes under it.

There is a need for hindus to refine our practices in line with our values. That is evolution and practising what we preach. Neither shameful nor contradictory.

Nope, I do not want our religion to become all about praying and mullahgiri. I like it the way it is, noisy, boisterous, and plain celebration of living.

Dandiya is a PRACTICE, Not the essence. Both are not the same.

One of the essential practices of Navratri is FASTING. Another is Dandiya. Third is Garba.

You are free to compare it with Abrahamic or any other religion. As I said, that is not my burden, its yours.

"ALL" our religious significant occasions are not "festivals", nor are not designed to be communal affairs.

E.g. Vaikunta Ekadashi or Shiv Ratri is not a communal festival. In south people do not venture out during Shiv Ratri.

Dandiya is a practice born of the essence. The joy of the victor is what it represents. All the three practices of Navratri emphasis its essence only.

All our festivals are both personal and communal affairs. Shiv Ratri and Vaitkunta Ekadashi too. Just see the crowds at the temples on these days even in the South to disabuse you of the idea that it does not get communal.

You continue to talk about Abrahamic faith and Chinese symbolism. They do not interest me.

And I am not anybody to steal "joy" and "merriment" from our children's lives. Sounds very much like "how the grinch stole christmas".

Take a deep breath and listen to yourself.

There is a contradiction about HOW WE PRACTICE and What our Dharma guides us to do. My entire post has been about explaining that POV.

No, your post has not been explaining that point of view. Our Dharma does not guide us to live our values only on our festivals but throughout our lives. We have already gone through this argument many times.

No, that is not the definition of religion. That is the definition of LIFE.

Sorry, Hinduism unlike other "religions" does not do only burdens and troubles nor is it our definition of life.

Certain Religious festivals may have an economic and communal angle to it, but that is not what they are designed to do.

I am sorry to say, but you "definition" sounds like what Walmart wants to promote. Not what hindu religion promote.


Finally listen to yourself. "day of respite", "sharing of joy", "day of coming together (homecoming)" ....... what religion does that remind you of ?

Our religious festivals were designed with better strategies than Walmart could have even in these days and times. That is why they are the success they are. In fact go and looking in to why so many rituals came into place in the first place. The design was always economic. Hence India never has to face a Black Friday.

Yes, I am using a language built by the Christians and hence using the terminology made by them to express things. I do not know the sanskrit equivalent of holidays (mind you i am not talking about Sabbath as in Sunday, but only limited to Hindu festivals) or sharing of joy with the community which festivals are supposed to do in every Hindu event and coming together. All of these have been no strangers to Hindu festivals again from the time of the Gods.

 

[Niyogi]

I do not agree. It has much more significance now than it had before because of the loss of Hindu space. Before independence we were a staunch Hindu society with people rallying for Hindu Ram Rajya. Today it is not so. The last decades of secularism and progressiveness has eroded our values and our religious perspective more than ever with literally half the population not even identifying themselves as Hindus. It is in this context Ganesha Chaturti assumes even more importance. Its proliferation from Maharashtra to other states and other countries even is precisely because of its pull as a spectacular event. That would not have been possible if it had stayed a small dreary private affair.

Once can argue that the Hindu space has expanded after independence. Hindus now have a voice which did not exist earlier. The world is yet to come to terms with it.

Erosion of our values system is real and if Ganesh Chaturti is the answer to that then so be it.

The point about its polluting aspects still stands and needs to be addressed responsible by practising Hindus. what non practicing hindus have to say about it should not matter, any more than what a christian or a muslim has to say about it matters.

This is not what you said at all and it was clear as a day what you said and what you meant. Everyone can see who is lying here.

That is speculation at its worst. You assume things that are/were in alignment with your prejudice.

The purpose is both political, economical, social, and religious. In fact I would mark it as one of the most important events in raising our consciousness as a Hindu society. Like everything in life, there are drawbacks to this festival too, but the benefits clearly outweigh the negatives. Any and every degradation will be addressed as happens with everything. Already in cities without seashore line, there are separate water tanks built for immersion so that that the lakes do not get polluted. Likewise, there will always be some solution acceptable to the celebrators with everything.

Again that may be so or may not be so, for the moment it is irrelevant to the current debate on Pollution.

Mumbai has a massive pollution issue after ganesh chaturti. The problem has never been addressed with the care and responsibility it deserves. now that there is a Hindutva govt. in Maharashtra, it needs to be done.

Nope, I do not want our religion to become all about praying and mullahgiri. I like it the way it is, noisy, boisterous, and plain celebration of living.

Again a stawman. Let it be noisy, boisterous and celebratory for all those who desire it that way, as long as it is non polluting. Where is the contradiction ? Are these things mutually exclusive ?

Dandiya is a practice born of the essence. The joy of the victor is what it represents. All the three practices of Navratri emphasis its essence only.

All our festivals are both personal and communal affairs. Shiv Ratri and Vaitkunta Ekadashi too. Just see the crowds at the temples on these days even in the South to disabuse you of the idea that it does not get communal.

A crowd at a temple is no more a communal function than a crowd at a railway station or a bank

They all facilitate distinct purpose, but that purpose is limited to the individual, not the community. The service they provide however is community service.

No, your post has not been explaining that point of view. Our Dharma does not guide us to live our values only on our festivals but throughout our lives. We have already gone through this argument many times.

Deliberate misinterpretation of what I have said. No point in demolishing a strawman AGAIN.

Our religious festivals were designed with better strategies than Walmart could have even in these days and times. That is why they are the success they are. In fact go and looking in to why so many rituals came into place in the first place. The design was always economic. Hence India never has to face a Black Friday.

So the essence of Hindu religious festival IS Economics ?

Yes, I am using a language built by the Christians and hence using the terminology made by them to express things. I do not know the sanskrit equivalent of holidays (mind you i am not talking about Sabbath as in Sunday, but only limited to Hindu festivals) or sharing of joy with the community which festivals are supposed to do in every Hindu event and coming together. All of these have been no strangers to Hindu festivals again from the time of the Gods.

Fine. It was just an honest observation. You are free to interpret it anyway you want.

 

[Asian.Century]

That's just shameful for the largest secular democracy and the BJP Modi govt.

 

[Samudra Manthan]

Mumbai has a massive pollution issue after ganesh chaturti. The problem has never been addressed with the care and responsibility it deserves. now that there is a Hindutva govt. in Maharashtra, it needs to be done.

It is far far less than what is made out to be.

Again a stawman. Let it be noisy, boisterous and celebratory for all those who desire it that way, as long as it is non polluting. Where is the contradiction ? Are these things mutually exclusive ?

It is not a strawman. All noisy, boisterous, celebrations pollute. If there was a gaggle of thousand geese in one area, that noise level is also sound pollution. Depends on where one is coming from. You cannot have noiseless celebrations. That is as good analogy as having a boiling ice cream.

A crowd a a temple is no more a communal function than a crowd at a railway station or a bank

They all facilitate distinct purpose, but that purpose is limited to the individual, not the community. The service they proide however is community service.

It is a public space and hence not private. That makes it communal. Communal need not be confined to religious only. It is societal in implication.

Temples facilitate a communal purpose serving the society, the Hindu society.

So the essence of Hindu religious festival IS Economics

I said the design of the festival celebration is economic with a spiritual essence. I said these before too, it was always an economic, communal, celebratory affair with a moral message.

 

[Niyogi]

It is far far less than what is made out to be.

Irrelevant. Media is not the moral authority on anything. Its only a reporting agency.

It is not a strawman. All noisy, boisterous, celebrations pollute. If there was a gaggle of thousand geese in one area, that noise level is also sound pollution. Depends on where one is coming from. You cannot have noiseless celebrations. That is as good analogy as having a boiling ice cream.

Noisy do not mean you play loud speakers in public that can be heard around a block. In fact as per law loud speakers cannot be kept in an open space, it can only be kept in an enclosed space like an auditorium. Either you follow the law or your modify the law.

Same holds true for other kinds of crackers. have a look,

cpcb.nic.in/Noise_Standards dot php

It is a public space and hence not private. That makes it communal. Communal need not be confined to religious only. It is societal in implication.

Temples facilitate a communal purpose serving the society, the Hindu society.

its not a communal activity. Its an individual activity in a communal place.

I said the design of the festival celebration is economic with a spiritual essence. I said these before too, it was always an economic, communal, celebratory affair with a moral message.

The essence remain spiritual which is actually at odds with the material world. But again it need not be mutually exclusive, but it is not an easy or natural fit.

Hinduism emphasis self control, austerity, propriety, shuddhi etc.

 

[Samudra Manthan]

Irrelevant. Media is not the moral authority on anything. Its only a reporting agency.

Oh really? I have a flyover to sell you if you believe that.

Noisy do not mean you play loud speakers in public that can be heard around a block. In fact as per law loud speakers cannot be kept in an open space, it can only be kept in an enclosed space like an auditorium. Either you follow the law or your modify the law.

Same holds true for other kinds of crackers. have a look,

They are within the permissible limits everywhere. Take it up with the law enforcement officers if they are not ensuring the law is followed.

its not a communal activity. Its an individual activity in a communal place.

It is both an individual activity and an communal activity. Pujas are not performed individually for everyone who goes there but communally.

The essence remain spiritual which is actually at odds with the material. But again it need not be mutually exclusive, but it is not an easy or natural fit.

Hinduism emphasis self control, austerity, propriety, shuddhi etc.

It is not at odds with material. It is as natural fit as any. That is the nature of the world, both material and spiritual at the same time without any conflict between them whatsoever. It is only in pursuance of one or other exclusively is an imbalance created and odds arise.

 

[Niyogi]

Oh really? I have a flyover to sell you if you believe that.

For the purpose of this debate. I am not talking about the role of the media in society, nation, culture etc.

They are within the permissible limits everywhere. Take it up with the law enforcement officers if they are not ensuring the law is followed.

It is both an individual activity and an communal activity. Pujas are not performed individually for everyone who goes there but communally.

No the are NEVER within permissible limits and you are old enough to know this is true. You are seeing it as a law and order issue, I am talking about responsible Hindu behaviour guided Hindu value systems.

Actually pooja's are not even conducted communally, they are conducted as per the Vaikanasa Agama at proscribed time. People time their visit to coincide with the pooja.

It is not at odds with material. It is as natural fit as any. That is the nature of the world, both material and spiritual at the same time without any conflict between them whatsoever. It is only in pursuance of one or other exclusively is an imbalance created and odds arise.

When the world itself is an illusion and spirituality a way out, how can the two coexist in harmony ? Their very nature as described in Hinduism is self contradictory.