41 Writers Return Indian Award, Cite Climate of Intolerance

[Star Wars]

No we are not. Why do you think these religious scriptures exist ?

Maybe you should twist it to suit your own opinion like those riligious mullah's ?

I am not discussing their freedom you moron, I am discussing their RESPONSIBILITY.

Yes, lets take responsibility and disconnect electricity if you are getting it from coal plants, stop using cars etc etc.. Why by selective....

LOL....I give up. You are just too stupid.

And you seem to be aggravated.... considering the amount of insults you have thrown at me.

When the Majority will decide what's the point to have personal views????

Don't those in the majority also have a personal opinion ? You are free to try to convince them, but not try to force a change.

 

[Samudra Manthan]

No arguments or dispute there. Where did I say otherwise ?

Then where is the argument? You give up using private transport and then advocate people to give up using crackers on festivals.

Yes it does. I do not agree with your view that the ONLY way to save the planet is to go back to mud huts. If that is what YOU believe, then you are free to do that.

I do not believe in this view either, I just gave it as an example since you were being so concerned about "pollution" for a festival celebrated 5 days in a year but okay with all polluting modern conveniences for the whole year. I believe in balancing modern lives with our concern for environment and I think crackers for few hours 3-5 days a year is just fine.

Kindly quote me saying "we should not celebrate our festivals because they were not celebrated with the same devices back in the golden days".

If you cannot do that, then I expect an APOLOGY.

Of course that is what you implied when you first said North Indian weddings are loud and obnoxious and our festival celebrations are not in keeping with Hindu values. Then you went on to say Ganesh Chaturti is a nuisance and does not serve any purpose. Then you give the examples of yagna as a non-polluting event when it clearly is. So you want Ganesh Chaturti done away with, you want yagnas to replace crackers, and our weddings to be a sedate sedentary boring affairs. What else was your argument about?

No. The Yagna's for grahasti was very different to yagna's for community welfare.

Eg. Pitr Yagna, bhuta yagna etc was for grahasti

For the community it was deva yagna, Pancha maha yagna, Rajasooya, ashvamedha and vajapeya yajnas etc.

You said Yagnas were community affairs when I clearly showed that Yagnas are personal affairs too. There is a yagna for every damn thing.

 

[Star Wars]

Of course that is what you implied when you first said North Indian weddings are loud and obnoxious and our festival celebrations are not in keeping with Hindu values. Then you went on to say Ganesh Chaturti is a nuisance and does not serve any purpose. Then you give the examples of yagna as a non-polluting event when it clearly is. So you want Ganesh Chaturti done away with, you want yagnas to replace crackers, and our weddings to be a sedate sedentary boring affairs. What else was your argument about?

The guy has been backtracking ever since his duplicity got exposed...

 

[Niyogi]

Maybe you should twist it to suit your own opinion like those riligious mullah's ?

Thanks for the "advice". its worthless .......... so I have dumped it.

Yes, lets take responsibility and disconnect electricity if you are getting it from coal plants, stop using cars etc etc.. Why by selective....

You mean why exercise "responsible choice" ? because I can you idiot.

....being dragged down to your level is aggravating. Kya kare.

 

[Samudra Manthan]

@Samudra Manthan Check this out

Religious Guidelines ...WTF ? we are not talking about Christianity or Islam here ..

Yup, Islam and Christianity seems to be the standard for festival celebrations now.

 

[Star Wars]

You mean why exercise "responsible choice" ? because I can you idiot.
....being dragged down to your level is aggravating. Kya kare.

What happened, were you not trying to be the champion of morality and reason

 

[Samudra Manthan]

as if you don't use any of them????

I do use then and hence I am fine with crackers on Diwali and water on Holi and huge statues of Ganesha on Ganesh Chaturti.

No we are not. Why do you think these religious scriptures exist

Religious scriptures are followed to the extent it is possible even today. Even Shivas wedding was not a boring sedate affair. None of our gods had a boring weddings as you envisage. Pomp and ceremony has always been part of Hindu festivals from time immemorial.

 

[Star Wars]

Yup, Islam and Christianity seems to be the standard for festival celebrations now.

no kidding :\ , one of my Christian friends told me he started "Holy Yoga" .

 

[Chow chow]

Who cares. They are very much welcome to even return their Indian citizenship.

 

[Niyogi]

Then where is the argument? You give up using private transport and then advocate people to give up using crackers on festivals.

You assume I don't use public transport. Your whole point is speculative and personal.

I do not believe in this view either, I just gave it as an example since you were being so concerned about "pollution" for a festival celebrated 5 days in a year but okay with all polluting modern conveniences for the whole year. I believe in balancing modern lives with our concern for environment and I think crackers for few hours 3-5 days a year is just fine.

Festivals are held to REMIND us of our Values. We are required to practice our value system especially at festivals. That is why most people do not drink or eat meat during festivals. its that time of the year when we practice higher values. That is the VERY ESSENCE of a religions festival.

Of course that is what you implied when you first said North Indian weddings are loud and obnoxious and our festival celebrations are not in keeping with Hindu values. Then you went on to say Ganesh Chaturti is a nuisance and does not serve any purpose. Then you give the examples of yagna as a non-polluting event when it clearly is. So you want Ganesh Chaturti done away with, you want yagnas to replace crackers, and our weddings to be a sedate sedentary boring affairs. What else was your argument about?

How so ? Loud Obnoxious north Indian weddings processions are social customs, not religious.

Religions festivals are religious customs.

I went on to explain the historical significance and origins of Ganesh Chaturti celebration. Its historic purpose. Not its "non purpose". Shame on you for lying.

I gave the example of Yagna as an example of PRACTISING Hindu Values, not as example of non-Polluting event. Shame on you again for lying.

I NEVER made a point about yagna's substituting crackers. Again SHAME on you for lying. That may or may not have been your "assumption". Not my responsibility or burden.

ALL your points are Lies and Strawmen. I am disappointed to say the least.

You said Yagnas were community affairs when I clearly showed that Yagnas are personal affairs too. There is a yagna for every damn thing.

The point was about Social festivals like diwali and ganesh chaturti being compared to community events like community yagna. YOU were the one who assumed that we are required to have yagnas instead of crackers. Not my problem.

I never said there are no personal yagnas.

 

[Samudra Manthan]

no kidding :\ , one of my Christian friends told me he started "Holy Yoga" .

Do not get me started about them. Even vegetarianism is apparently Christian invention because before the floods and in the Garden of Eden, adam and eve only ate vegetables and fruits.

 

[Niyogi]

The guy has been backtracking ever since his duplicity got exposed...

..... the only thing exposed here is your inability to understand english or follow even basic line of thought.

Yup, Islam and Christianity seems to be the standard for festival celebrations now.

Another Strawmen ?

did not expect this from you. ..... shameful. Its the last resort of the incompetent.

Religious scriptures are followed to the extent it is possible even today. Even Shivas wedding was not a boring sedate affair. None of our gods had a boring weddings as you envisage. Pomp and ceremony has always been part of Hindu festivals from time immemorial.

Shiva was marrying the daughter of a king. No one is asking for a boring wedding, only a responsible wedding.

 

[IndoCarib]

Voices not raised after Emergency, Muzaffarnagar riots: Ravi Shankar Prasad

"...One thing does pain me sometimes. A number of big incidents happened in the country earlier, also but at that time people did not return (awards).

"During Emergency, democratic rights including press freedom were violated on such a large scale. But these kinds of voices were not heard then. Such a massive riot happened in Muzaffarangar one and half years back and the way the (state) government (of Samajwadi Party) worked there was in an enitrely discriminatory manner. At that time also such protest was not seen," Prasad told reporters at the Cabinet briefing.

 

[Samudra Manthan]

You assume I don't use public transport. Your whole point is speculative and personal.

The you was as in impersonal you. As in people who use cars can give it up and then advocate for environment.

Festivals are held to REMIND us of our Values. We are required to practice our value system especially at festivals. That is why most people do not drink or eat meat during festivals. its that time of the year when we practice higher values. That is the VERY ESSENCE of a religions festival.

Sorry, that is not what festivals are for. Our values are reminded to us every day of our lives and not just on festivals. We in India especially live our values. It is only the Sunday Christians who practice their values on Sunday like you are advocating. We are not supposed to eat meat or drink throughout the year. In fact our scriptures expressly forbids us to kill animals for meat except in celebrating pitr paksh. It is not the day we practice higher values, it is the day we gather in community spirit and joy. The essence of our religion is in living our life itself as a celebration.

How so ? Loud Obnoxious north Indian weddings processions are social customs, not religious.

Religions festivals are religious customs.

I went on to explain the historical significance and origins of Ganesh Chaturti celebration. Its historic purpose. Not its "non purpose". Shame on you for lying.

I gave the example of Yagna as an example of PRACTISING Hindu Values, not as example of non-Polluting event. Shame on you again for lying.

I NEVER made a point about yagna's substituting crackers. Again SHAME on you for lying. That may or may not have been your "assumption". Not my responsibility or burden.

ALL your points are Lies and Strawmen. I am disappointed to say the least.

Social customs are a part and parcel of being what we are. Religion was not a cut and dry religious/spiritual aspect at least as far as Hinduism was concerned. It involved society and social customs.

You explained Ganesh Chaturti's origins so as to advocate its doing away with since you contended there is a Hindutva govt in place now and so no more revolution is needed. So it is you who is lying.

Okay, if that was your purpose of giving Yagna as an example in this discussion then you clearly failed because here you are arguing for non-polluting ways of celebrations and bringing in Yagna even to espouse Hindu values certainly is in breech of non-polluting festival celebrations.

None of my arguments are strawmen or lies.

 

[Niyogi]

The you was as in impersonal you. As in people who use cars can give it up and then advocate for environment.

Practice is useful for making a stronger moral stand. Does not affect its logic or reason.

Sorry, that is not what festivals are for. Our values are reminded to us every day of our lives and not just on festivals. We in India especially live our values. It is only the Sunday Christians who practice their values on Sunday like you are advocating. We are not supposed to eat meat or drink throughout the year. In fact our scriptures expressly forbids us to kill animals for meat except in celebrating pitr paksh. It is not the day we practice higher values, it is the day we gather in community spirit and joy. The essence of our religion is in living our life itself as a celebration.

That is exactly what RELIGIOUS festivals are for. A day to REINFORCE our values.

I am not bothered about what christens practice. That is your burden to carry, not mine.

There are community festivals like Vishu or Baishaki, then there are religious festivals like dushera. Both serve separate functions and you cannot bunch them together.

If our entire life is a celebration, then one do not need any festival. That is a self defeating line of argument.

Social customs are a part and parcel of being what we are. Religion was not a cut and dry religious/spiritual aspect at least as far as Hinduism was concerned. It involved society and social customs.

You explained Ganesh Chaturti's origins so as to advocate its doing away with since you contended there is a Hindutva govt in place now and so no more revolution is needed. So it is you who is lying.

Okay, if that was your purpose of giving Yagna as an example in this discussion then you clearly failed because here you are arguing for non-polluting ways of celebrations and bringing in Yagna even to espouse Hindu values certainly is in breech of non-polluting festival celebrations.

None of my arguments are strawmen or lies.

Religious values seep into social and cultural values. Not the other way around.

Social practices may seep into Religious practices.

But the guiding principle of any religions practice is religious VALUES it promotes, not politically expedient practice.

You are again assigning "reason" and "motives" to my talking about Ganesh chaturti. Again not my problem. Stick to what I have said.

I said the civil disobedience part of the festival is no longer "required" sine it has already served it purpose. IT may serve a new purpose now, but its old purpose has been served.

I am not giving out ideas of non polluting celebrations. I leave that to the individuals choices. I am talking about the bigger picture. The actions which should be guided by the values.