35,000 deaths, $68 Billion losses of Pakistan after 9/11 attacks

[foxbat]

What Afghan adventures did we do? Was the US not a part of it? They did not wanted the USSR to have a presence in Afghanistan, and we did not wanted to have them next to us, the Yanks did not want a direct war, we did not have the military might. So, the Taliban was created to make a rogue face.

It was equally the fault of US as well.

Absolute truth.. So why crib now when you need to bear the consequences of those decisions.. Both You and USA were consenting adults in that romp in Afghanistan. so why make grand statements now of bearing the burden of protecting 7 billion from terror (which your partnership with USA created in the 1st place)... I dont see USA cribbing that its bearing that burden.. why are you..??

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

You clearly missed the woods for the trees. I listed Khalistan and Kashmir Jihad as 'potential profits' i.e. profits for you which could have occured and which you wanted to occur but which somehow did not occur.

I have yet to read a credible source that suggests that the Pakistani decision to fight the Soviets in Afghanistan had anything to do with any future Khalistan or Kashmir campaigns. The rationale behind the decision to support the Jihad in Afghanistan was as I posted earlier.

By 'you' I mean your Generals and strategic planners.

Why are you willing to take the profits for the proceeds of the Afghan war of 80's but the not the losses?

'Profits'? Any war costs money, and most of the funds received from the US went into the war against the Soviets, and not our coffers. Secondly, as I pointed out, the Soviet Military intervention in Afghanistan was perceived as an existential military threat to Pakistan, and therefore Pakistan had a lot of personal reasons to fight that war, and therefore accept the losses and gains that came with it, though the war itself would not have been necessary had the US and Soviets not been engaged in their own 'Cold War'.

and if you do, why then does the head of your state expect the other 7 billion denizens of the world to be grateful to you?

Already mentioned in a previous post - the Cold War between the West and the Soviets was the underlying cause for the Soviet military intervention and the threat to Pakistan from the that intervention, and therefore those nations do have responsibility for the events that followed.

The 7 billion had no share in your profits or potential profits.

What profits? You mean the millions of refugees, the drugs, weapons smuggling and other socio-economic impact from the Afghan conflicts on Pakistan?

Why should they have a share in your losses?

Already pointed out in this post and past posts.

 

[foxbat]

At the time Pakistan started supporting the Taliban, they were an ascendant force already, and had garnered significant local support.

No debate there..

And while they may not have risen as rapidly as they did without Pakistani, Saudi and US support, they would have risen, and Afghanistan would have continued to remain chaotic and lawless, and AQ would have still found plenty of space to exist, given that OBL and CO. had plenty of funds to 'buy off' warlords and protection.

No way for anyone to know if the bold part is true, since Pakistan DID decide to support them to gain strategic depth in Afghanistan is now unfortunately seem to be drowning in the same depth of terror... (hope it did not become too melodramatic )
[/QUOTE]

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Wont disagree there.. But then those alignments and geographical situation worked towards your benefit then.. now its the time to pay for those benefits.. As I said, gotta take bad with the good..

Sure, and that applies to the nations involved in the Cold War - the West and the Soviets continue to share the responsibility for what happened, as does Pakistan, and therefore those nations also need to 'take the good with the bad'.

---------- Post added at 10:52 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:49 AM ----------

No way for anyone to know if the bold part is true, since Pakistan DID decide to support them to gain strategic depth in Afghanistan

There is - just look at the situation in Afghanistan before the Taliban takeover - it was essentially what Somalia has been and perhaps still is, with a bunch of warlords fighting each other and abusing the average Afghan. Chaos and instability is what AQ needs to survive, and therefore 9/11 would still have happened.

 

[Prometheus]

Reality check.......
Pakistan is not fighting world's war on terrorism.............Pakistan is fighting war of its own survival .

Never creat a thing that you cannot keep under check.

Short thinking of Generals of Pakistan is coming to haunt Pakistan................door ki socho.

 

[ashokdeiva]

I doubt the US was not aware of the presence of Pakistani regulars in support roles within the Taliban, and the so called 'air lift of evil', carried out with full US knowledge and approval, was likely an evacuation of any Pakistani military and government advisers in Afghanistan that were unable to get out before the US invasion.

I don't see any reason for Pakistan to have its soldiers killed for the sake of 'hiding' something that any intelligence agency worth its salt would know about.

If you know that your regular forces are in the ranks of Taliban, why did you not persuade the US to abandone its invasion plan or at the least you could have not supported the US in the first instance.

 

[KALKI]

'Profits'? Any war costs money, and most of the funds received from the US went into the war against the Soviets, and not our coffers. Secondly, as I pointed out, the Soviet Military intervention in Afghanistan was perceived as an existential military threat to Pakistan, and therefore Pakistan had a lot of personal reasons to fight that war, and therefore accept the losses and gains that came with it, though the war itself would not have been necessary had the US and Soviets not been engaged in their own 'Cold War'.

Profit is not only monetary (On a second note, many of your generals gained a lot of personal booty too as a trickle effect of the Afghan war, did they not? Even that could be called a profit).

Zia had his own motives in A'stan. Those motives were his perceived/potential profits.

You wanted greater influence in A'stan since the ruler of A'stan was not particularly friendly to you.

That was also a potential profit.

Your nuke program, which received covert tacit approval from the US was also a profit which you came to realise.

Hence, it would be fair to say that you had your profits in mind when you ventured into the Afghan war.

Already mentioned in a previous post - the Cold War between the West and the Soviets was the underlying cause for the Soviet military intervention and the threat to Pakistan from the that intervention, and therefore those nations do have responsibility for the events that followed.

All right.

Let us then also add removal of Russians from A'stan as another of the potential/actual profits. Basically an objective is a potential profit.

What profits? You mean the millions of refugees, the drugs, weapons smuggling and other socio-economic impact from the Afghan conflicts on Pakistan?

Those were the losses, of course. The profits were the above mentioned ones.

Sadly for you, your lossis outran your profits and continue to do so.

Hence, the net cost of the Afghan war has weighed quite heavily on your country both in terms of human and other resources.

Now your country wants the rest of the world to foot the bill for your losses.

I ask why should they?

 

[foxbat]

Sure, and that applies to the nations involved in the Cold War - the West and the Soviets continue to share the responsibility for what happened, as does Pakistan, and therefore those nations also need to 'take the good with the bad'.

Each country is bearing its own cross.. But Pakistan seems to be asking the 7 billion people of the world to be thankful to it for doing so..

There is - just look at the situation in Afghanistan before the Taliban takeover - it was essentially what Somalia has been and perhaps still is, with a bunch of warlords fighting each other and abusing the average Afghan. Chaos and instability is what AQ needs to survive, and therefore 9/11 would still have happened.

Buddy, its all conjecture.. Like a thief claiming that had he not looted a house left open by mistake, someone else would have.. Doesnt absolve the thief from the act of stealing.. Just like the existing situation in Afg does not absolve Pakistan from the crime of propping up the Taliban in Afg for which its paying the price now...

 

[DV RULES]

You raised a dog. You fed it. You groomed it in the hope that if you ever needed to use it against your neighbor, it will attack. And then when you decided that this dog is more of a menace than a deterrent, you expected it to just roll over and die ? And now you expect 7 billion people to be grateful to you for trying to kill your own self groomed rabid dog.

Lack of knowledge is a problem but blame without fair analysis bigger problem.
First, terrorism doesn’t our production but this is US which was mastermind of that terrorism so he suffered by its own created terrorism. Plot was advertised against Pakistan because they couldn't be called themselves responsible of this terrorism and felt guilty. Here things are so mixed up but i don't surprise if you people use for your natural hate for Pakistan.

 

[foxbat]

Lack of knowledge is a problem but blame without fair analysis bigger problem.
First, terrorism doesn’t our production but this is US which was mastermind of that terrorism so he suffered by its own created terrorism. Plot was advertised against Pakistan because they couldn't be called themselves responsible of this terrorism and felt guilty. Here things are so mixed up but i don't surprise if you people use for your natural hate for Pakistan.

takes a couple to make a baby.. Here it was USA and Pakistan.. and like all mothers, PAkistan got the lion's share of responsibility and pain ...

 

[Norboo]

So we created and supported TTP? I am sure you've heard of the word 'delusion'.

Don't beat about the bush and obfuscate the issue as guys like you are experts at. You very cleverly mentioned the TTP and the Afghan Taliban. We are not concerned with them in the least. That's your problem.

What we are concerned with is the unabashed support of India specific terror organizations like the LeT and the JeM by the Establishment to keep Kashmir on the boil. With 42 terrorist training camps stretching from Kashmir to the AFPAK region, you guys are digging your own graves. The Frankenstein monster the ISI has created has now come to prey on the very hands that feed it!

Remember ALL terror groups are intertwined and support each other in various ways. So unless and until action is taken against ALL terror groups and not selectively, things will go from bad to worse in Pakistan, which is using terror as an instrument of state policy. Even Kayani had mentioned that these terror groups are the army's 'strategic assets'.

And running with the hare and hunting with the hounds ain't a good idea.

 

[DV RULES]

NEW YORK/WASHINGTON: Pakistan has told Americans, marking the tenth anniversary of the 9/11 terrorist attacks, that despite paying a heavy price in blood and treasure, the Pakistanis are fighting militants for the safety of people across the world.
“Since 2001, a nation of 180 million has been fighting for the future of the world’s 7 billion,” the Pakistan government said in a message advertised in The Wall Street Journal, a major US newspaper.
The half-page message, with former Shaheed Prime Minister Benazir Bhutto’s photo, was timed with the solemn observance of the tragedy in which more than 3,000 Americans were killed in New York, Washington and Pennsylvania.
Ms Bhutto was killed in a terrorist attack, symbolizing the sacrifices and sufferings of the Pakistanis who have lost around 35,000 people including civilians, politicians and security personnel in its courageous decade-old anti-terror fight.
“Which country can do more for your peace,” the government asked. “Can any other country do so? Only Pakistan. The promise of our martyrs lives on.” Giving details, the government told the American public that since Sept 11, 2001, 21,672 Pakistani civilians have lost their lives or have been seriously injured in an ongoing fight against terror.
The Pakistani Army also has lost 2,795 soldiers while 8,671 soldiers have been wounded. There have been 3,486 bomb blasts and 283 major suicide attacks. More than 3.5 million have been displaced while the country has lost $68 billion due to terrorism.
The Pakistani nation is making sacrifices that statistics cannot reflect. Pakistan remains engaged in the war for world peace, with 200,000 troops deployed at the frontline and 90,000 soldiers fighting on the Afghan border.
The tenth anniversary of 9/11 attacks, perpetrated by al-Qaeda linked militants, has brought into focus the terrorism challenges facing the world.
Pakistan launched a massive anti-terror campaign after hundreds of al-Qaeda-linked and Afghan militants crossed into its tribal areas from across the porous Durand Line in late 2001 following the US invasion of Afghanistan and consequent fall of the Taliban government in Kabul. On the eve of tenth anniversary of the attacks, the White House acknowledged the fact that it has been due to Pakistan’s vital anti-terrorism role that now the United States can feel safer, ten years after the cataclysmic 9/11 terrorist attacks that brought down twin World Trade Centre towers in New York, slammed a plane into Pentagon and killed several passengers in the flight that went down in Pennsylvania.
Meanwhile, the Foreign Office also issued a statement late Saturday on the eve of the anniversary. It said: “Today, the world commemorates the tenth anniversary of the September 11 terrorist attacks. Pakistan joins the people of the United States and of the world in honouring the memory of all those who lost their lives on September 11, as well as those who have been victims of terrorism around the world.”
“As a country that has been severely affected by terrorism, we reaffirm our national resolve to strengthening international cooperation for the elimination of terrorism,” it said. It is also appropriate that today the global community renew its commitment to uphold the noble ideals of tolerance, humanity, brotherhood and friendship amongst all peoples and its determination to work for creating a better world, the statement said.

Hate to read these selfish words from US, what about our safety? They pushed more than 30000 innocent lives into death for the sake of their BS safety? What about our progress? We lost our development only for better future of 7 billion people? Why we have to suicide for whole world?
This is US, which sold safety of ally for own security?

What a pathetic attitude that we are telling them that we lost people otherwise they have damn care about it!
Did we receive any message from world community thanking our sacrifice in WOT?

 

[DV RULES]

takes a couple to make a baby.. Here it was USA and Pakistan.. and like all mothers, PAkistan got the lion's share of responsibility and pain ...

Well, you people now come on the point so next time don't miss these word to use rather than bashing on Pakistan alone when talk about Afghan Mujahidin but terrorism not concerned to us. Terrorism is US's creation.

 

[haywards]

All happen becz of one thing....hate

 

[foxbat]

Well, you people now come on the point so next time don't miss these word to use rather than bashing on Pakistan alone when talk about Afghan Mujahidin but terrorism not concerned to us. Terrorism is US's creation.

Do remember that with all illegitimate children, its the mother who gets to bear the brunt of the burden and blame for her stupidity to get knocked up in the first place..