35,000 deaths, $68 Billion losses of Pakistan after 9/11 attacks

[KALKI]

From a Pakistani mindset, the militants/terrorists that it supports in Afghanistan/Kashmir or the ones it supported in Punjab are all good militants/terrorists.. The ones targeting Pakistan itself for its support of USA (which it has no option but to support) are all bad terrorists/militants.. and hence the entitlement mindset of needing the thanks of the 7 billion...

When the 7 billion were clearly not a party to Pakistani gamble, why should they pay up?

Look at it this way.

Q - Today if Microsoft's stock went bust and fell to ,say, zero dollars, how would you or I or a majority of those 7 billion would have been effected.

A - We would have been uneffected. Simple.

It doesn't matter to the 7 billion whether Microsoft survives or goes bust.

Similarly, it does not matter to the 7 billion when the Pakistani gamble survived or went bust.

Incidentally it went bust.

Who cares?

---------- Post added at 06:35 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:32 PM ----------

The Pakistanis did not ask the 7 billion before venturing into Afghanistan in the 80's.

Why then should the 7 billion be grateful to them for the losses they suffer.

It was a gamble and they lost. Plain and simple.

 

[ashokdeiva]

The political message was to earn the sympathy of the world but the message should have been put in a different prespective by the Pakistani Government with out talking about "Whose war it(Pakistan) is now fighting. The world knows that Pakistan seeded a bad tree and it thought that the growth of that tree can be controlled. But allas it all went wrong and we have terrorism based on religious supremecy.
US on the other hand with all the money, experiance, think tanks and technology should have not backed Pakistan when it was planning to use non state actors, but US found a sapgoat in the name (Pakistan) and they beautifully executed its work leaving the blame on Pakistan. and Pakistani policy makers were so idiotic that because of their shortsighted attitude are making the people of Pakistan pay for their actions

 

[Jango]

The former assistant secretary of defence of USA yesterday said, that nobody knows more the price of terrorism than US, and nobody has paid more price and sacrifices than US, is this how the world think of us?

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

You created Taliban.. Rest of the mutations into AT, TTP (Good Taliban , bad Taliban ) was all self sustained..

Actually Pakistan did not create the Taliban, and anyone with any knowledge of the history of the Taliban would know that, unless deliberately trying to distort the issue - the Taliban were an indigenous Afghan movement that built up around Mullah Omar as a response to the chaos, strife and lawlessness promoted by the various Afghan Warlords after the Soviet defeat.

By the time Pakistan decided to support the Taliban as a potentially stabilizing and unifying movement in Afghanistan, the Taliban were already ascendant through control of various districts and (though I cannot remember exactly) some provinces. Pakistan's support, and the impression among many Afghans that the Taliban movement would bring stability and an end to the lawlessness of the Warlords, accelerated the rise of the Taliban, but even left on their own, without any external support for any of the other Pashtun and non-Pashtun warlords, the Taliban would have probably still ended up controlling a large chunk of Afghanistan.

So don't distort history for the sake of scoring cheap points against Pakistan.

 

[KALKI]

The former assistant secretary of defence of USA yesterday said, that nobody knows more the price of terrorism than US, and nobody has paid more price and sacrifices than US, is this how the world think of us?

Read my previous posts to know what the world thinks of you and your Afghan adventures.

The 7 billion had no say in your Afghan adventures and the consequences thereof.

Why then should the 7 billion pay up?

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

US is not asking anyone to be grateful. They are spending their own tax payers money and using their own forces, without making much hue and cry about it.

Sure, but they are also not fighting these wars in their backyards and in their streets and towns, Pakistan is.

It is not the US economy that has to suffer from suicide bombings, military operations and drone strikes by external entities in their cities and towns on a regular basis.

There is no comparison to be made between the US spending money on wars far from its shores, while its people live in relative security and comfort, and Pakistan having to fight the actual war in its cities and villages.

 

[PlanetWarrior]

Sure, but they are also not fighting these wars in their backyards and in their streets and towns, Pakistan is.

It is not the US economy that has to suffer from suicide bombings, military operations and drone strikes by external entities in their cities and towns on a regular basis.

There is no comparison to be made between the US spending money on wars far from its shores, while its people live in relative security and comfort, and Pakistan having to fight the actual war in its cities and villages.

And that exactly is something which baffles me about Pakistan and the Pakistanis. Why do you persist in being proxies or forming proxies for battles which simply have nothing to do with you. Many Pakistanis here rant and rave about their duty to the Muslim Ummah and how they are expected to take on injustices against Muslims since their army is an Islamic army. Great ideals do not shelter you from becoming the victim when you try to be the hero. Now that you are the victim, nobody is showing you any sympathy. And the fact is that it all started off with you trying to be the hero in somebody else's problem

 

[foxbat]

Sure, but they are also not fighting these wars in their backyards and in their streets and towns, Pakistan is.

It is not the US economy that has to suffer from suicide bombings, military operations and drone strikes by external entities in their cities and towns on a regular basis.

There is no comparison to be made between the US spending money on wars far from its shores, while its people live in relative security and comfort, and Pakistan having to fight the actual war in its cities and villages.

The geographical situation was the same when Pakistan decided to use militants to fight Soviets in Afghanistan at USA's behest. As they say you cant chose your neighbors. This very geographical position allowed Pakistan to milk USA for funds and technology during the cold war as a front against the soviets.. Gotta take bad with the good mate..

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

The 7 billion had no say in your Afghan adventures and the consequences thereof.

Why then should the 7 billion pay up?

Actually, one could argue that had it not been for the US-Soviet Cold War, we would not have had the chaos in Afghanistan that ensued post Soviet Military intervention in Afghanistan.

And given that the Soviets, US and allied nations comprise a significant chunk of the global population, there is plenty of 'responsibility' these nations have in the current situation in Afghanistan and Pakistan, as do Afghanistan and Pakistan.

 

[foxbat]

Actually Pakistan did not create the Taliban, and anyone with any knowledge of the history of the Taliban would know that, unless deliberately trying to distort the issue - the Taliban were an indigenous Afghan movement that built up around Mullah Omar as a response to the chaos, strife and lawlessness promoted by the various Afghan Warlords after the Soviet defeat.

By the time Pakistan decided to support the Taliban as a potentially stabilizing and unifying movement in Afghanistan, the Taliban were already ascendant through control of various districts and (though I cannot remember exactly) some provinces. Pakistan's support, and the impression among many Afghans that the Taliban movement would bring stability and an end to the lawlessness of the Warlords, accelerated the rise of the Taliban, but even left on their own, without any external support for any of the other Pashtun and non-Pashtun warlords, the Taliban would have probably still ended up controlling a large chunk of Afghanistan.

So don't distort history for the sake of scoring cheap points against Pakistan.

Pakistan may not have germinated the Taliban, but it surely the cohesive force that captured Kabul in 1996 was a result of Pakistani military support and SA money.. Taliban would have lost and diffused back into insignificance had they not won the battle of Kabul, which turned their way after a series of defeats only after Pakistan started its support to the movement.. So while it may be distasteful to you, the version of history that does not correspond to yours does not automatically become cheap point scoring..

 

[KALKI]

Actually, one could argue that had it not been for the US-Soviet Cold War, we would not have had the chaos in Afghanistan that ensued post Soviet Military intervention in Afghanistan.

And given that the Soviets, US and allied nations comprise a significant chunk of the global population, there is plenty of 'responsibility' these nations have in the current situation in Afghanistan and Pakistan, as do Afghanistan and Pakistan.

Answer me for Pakistan, AM.

For a second don't bring anyone else into the discussion.

Just for a second.

Why did you, the Pakistanis, venture into Afghanistan piggy riding the Americans in the 80's?

Why did YOU do it?

I wanna hear YOUR REASON of doing it.

America, Russians etc., all had their reasons. What was yours?

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

And that exactly is something which baffles me about Pakistan and the Pakistanis. Why do you persist in being proxies or forming proxies for battles which simply have nothing to do with you. Many Pakistanis here rant and rave about their duty to the Muslim Ummah and how they are expected to take on injustices against Muslims since their army is an Islamic army. Great ideals do not shelter you from becoming the victim when you try to be the hero. Now that you are the victim, nobody is showing you any sympathy. And the fact is that it all started off with you trying to be the hero in somebody else's problem

The US had not learned the lessons of military occupation and nation building in nations with large hostile populations, that it has now from its forays into Afghanistan and Iraq.

I support Musharraf's decision to join with the US at the time, since the hysteria and anger in the US would have been very easily manipulated into supporting military action against a 'Taliban-AQ supporting Military Dictatorship of Pakistan', with support from India.

Pakistan did caution against both invasion and war, and tried to convince the Taliban to accede to US demands (and the Taliban did indicated they were amenable to OBL and Co. being tried in a mutually agreed neutral country) but there was no one interested in listening or giving negotiations time to succeed.

So the choice at the time was one between the lesser of two evils - join the US in waging a war we believed was flawed, or become one of the targets of that war.

 

[Avatar]

If US leaves Afghanistan without clearing the mess the losses will only increase. Pakistan must co-operate and completely eliminate all extremists irrespective of what they claim their objectives are.

 

[EastWest]

Actually, one could argue that had it not been for the US-Soviet Cold War, we would not have had the chaos in Afghanistan that ensued post Soviet Military intervention in Afghanistan.

And given that the Soviets, US and allied nations comprise a significant chunk of the global population, there is plenty of 'responsibility' these nations have in the current situation in Afghanistan and Pakistan, as do Afghanistan and Pakistan.

The issue is y the heck did u need to involve in power play of two super powers...did nt Pakistan have problems of their own..Pakistan could have thought of Pakistanis first and afghanis second...now that ur paying the price of ur follies..i find Pakistanis still defending their actions and trying to find some scape goats..they may be US, Soviets, India or even martians,...

 

[foxbat]

Actually, one could argue that had it not been for the US-Soviet Cold War, we would not have had the chaos in Afghanistan that ensued post Soviet Military intervention in Afghanistan.

And given that the Soviets, US and allied nations comprise a significant chunk of the global population, there is plenty of 'responsibility' these nations have in the current situation in Afghanistan and Pakistan, as do Afghanistan and Pakistan.

Well, soviets paid, so have americans and so are Pakistanis..