27 Feb 19: PAF shot down two Indian aircrafts inside Pakistani airspace: DG ISPR

[ARMalik]

Why will we risk sending our jets deep into enemy territory in tge era of cruise misiles ?

The heavy assets are required as they can take more missiles per sortie ...

I think we should consider linking missiles at awacs and survillance aircrafts such as orions with fighter aircrafts as it will serve as force multiplyer ... we can attack much higher no of ships with much less no of fighters ...

Nothing is 'Risk Free' in a war. Cruise missiles are not an answer to everything. There will be situations where such long range' Jets with long range stand-off weapons and missiles will be invaluable. Pakistan will not survive a war with a "Defensive doctrine".

 

[The Accountant]

Nothing is 'Risk Free' in a war. Cruise missiles are not an answer to everything. There will be situations where such long range' Jets with long range stand-off weapons and missiles will be invaluable. Pakistan will not survive a war with a "Defensive doctrine".

Agreed, but what is the first priority? Air superiority or deep strike? I would have agreed if we had 110 f16s block 60 standard armed with AMRAAM-D supported by JF 17s armed with PL15 in sufficient numbers and long range SAM coverage.

It is all about priority. Offcourse we can achieve alot with long range deep strike fighters but for that to maintain we need to maintain air superiority atleast within our borders ...

If I have money I will invest it in a air superiority platform rather than Naval strike platform ...

 

[naahmad28]

Nothing is 'Risk Free' in a war. Cruise missiles are not an answer to everything. There will be situations where such long range' Jets with long range stand-off weapons and missiles will be invaluable. Pakistan will not survive a war with a "Defensive doctrine".

Who said Pakistan is following "Defensive Doctrine", Pakistan always said "No first attack".

if you have any support in terms of "Defensive doctrine", please do share with us, so that at least i can correct myself.

 

[cranwerkhan]

I check it every week if the google maps have updated

Waiting for post strike images as reportedly the ammo depot structure collapsed from violent explosions and shock waves.

 

[ARMalik]

Agreed, but what is the first priority? Air superiority or deep strike? I would have agreed if we had 110 f16s block 60 standard armed with AMRAAM-D supported by JF 17s armed with PL15 in sufficient numbers and long range SAM coverage.

It is all about priority. Offcourse we can achieve alot with long range deep strike fighters but for that to maintain we need to maintain air superiority atleast within our borders ...

If I have money I will invest it in a air superiority platform rather than Naval strike platform ...

Yes of course, it is a no brainier that air superiority needs to come first, and hence the appropriate Assets. But with such a huge Indian Navy, external events such as naval blockages to starve Pakistan of energy supplies, and other critical supplies means that successful blockages may have an adverse impact on Air Superiority of PAF within Pakistan borders. Indian Naval vessels do not need to be close to Pakistan waters to do this. And hence with sheer numbers, they will not only control PN, but also the blockage. But with long range jets with AESA and other goodies, these indian vessels and their naval aircrafts can be neutralized much more effectively.

 

[The Accountant]

Yes of course, it is a no brainier that air superiority needs to come first, and hence the appropriate Assets. But with such a huge Indian Navy, external events such as naval blockages to starve Pakistan of energy supplies, and other critical supplies means that successful blockages may have an adverse impact on Air Superiority of PAF within Pakistan borders. Indian Naval vessels do not need to be close to Pakistan waters to do this. And hence with sheer numbers, they will not only control PN, but also the blockage. But with long range jets with AESA and other goodies, these indian vessels and their naval aircrafts can be neutralized much more effectively.

Given the following below procurements, Naval blockade is now is almost a dream:

4 Type 54
4 Milgem
upgradation of F22P
Upgradation of Agosta
Purchase of 8 AIPs subs
Coastal defence system with a range of 300 miles
Purchase of CM400 AKG

With the same offence in mind, I recommended integration of our air superiority fighters equipped with air to air missiles to be linked with long range anti ship and land attack missiles to be locked by fighter aircrafts but launched from bigger assets such as AWACS. A little out of the box and futuristic suggestion. Furthermore, if we have funds then who in the right mind would deny aquiring dedicated naval attack aircrafts. Its all about priority at hand

 

[Bossman]

To add to that IN’s MiG 29Ks have turned out to be lemons. Their air craft carriers are basically toothless.

 

[Cool_Soldier]

PN is gradually boosting its defence and offence capabilities.In coming few years, game will be neutralized . Right now, very hard to block Pakistan's territorial waters. Otherwise, India could have done it earlier.

 

[Pak-Canuck]

Okay, I know this has been discussed NUMEROUS times now, but please read this ENTIRE post as it's a good video analysis / comparison:

We pretty much have three versions of events:

1) PAF shot down 1 IAF Mig-21 and that same Mig-21 took out a PAF F-16 (View supported by majority of indians)

2) PAF shot down 1 IAF Mig-21 AND 1 IAF SU-30 (View supported by majority of Pakistanis)

3) PAF shot down 1 IAF Mig-21 (View supported by a good number of people from both sides)


NOW THEN, I know most of these videos have been seen before, but PLEASE HAVE A COMPLETE LOOK at ALL of them again:

1) Clip of shootdown, in vid guy clearly says 2 parachutes there

2) Vid of witness of Abhinandan capture and complete sequence of events

3) Vid recently discovered and uploaded of INDIAN witnesses claiming how their plane went over border and CAME BACK AND CRASHED IN SHER MAKRI in IOK

4) NOW FOR THE REALLY INTERESTING clips that may have been forgotten by lots of members or may not have been seen. ANOTHER WITNESS who saw Abhinandan being captured ALONG WITH SIKH PILOT(S)

5) Full clip of Abhinandan being taken into Pak army truck and Witnesses TALKING ABOUT THE OTHER 2 CAPTURED (Part 1)

6) Full clip of Abhinandan being taken into Pak army truck and Witnesses TALKING ABOUT THE OTHER 2 CAPTURED (Part 2)

Now then, for all intents and purposes, view point number 3 about only 1 IAF mig-21 going down can be CLEARLY thrown out the window because of all these clips, which leaves viewpoints #1 and #2. But then Clip number 3 states clearly that IAF plane went down in Sher Makri (so can't be Abhinandan's Mig-21) and CANT BE a PAF F-16 (otherwise they would have displayed that footage non-stop for the rest of eternity). Sher Makri is ALSO IN NOWSHERA sector, where this Indian anchor clearly let this slip:

7)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDSp3hnfZlg


And Clip #4-6 clearly mention other pilots being captured, with AT LEAST ONE BEING Sikh which only supports viewpoint number 2 with the IAF plane crashing in IOK and the pilots landing in Azad Kashmir. Don't then forget DG ISPR's initial post about 3 prisoners taken, later changed to 1.

So I know the common response by the nay-sayers would be:

A) Pak beat up and killed their own pilot, which has been debunked by clip #3 & 4 above,
B) Why change statement from 3 to 1 and why hide the fact then?

Well some probable answers would be:

1) The other captured pilots could then be easily interrogated and or tortured for info as their country wants to deny that they were even shot down or captured so no consequences there (don't underestimate the value of a captured Weapon Systems Officer, i.e details like IAF Su-30 weapon countermeasures, tactics, squadron info, planes in which hangars etc etc)

2) As per some sightings and reports, the sikh pilot(s) died as their chute caught on fire or made a bad landing and pak not wanting to escalate the issue as the image we were portraying is that we never intended to cause loss of life in either the ground strikes or with pilot capture, and handed over the dead body without displaying images unlike with Abhinandan as it would have forced Indians to do atleast some sort of retaliation due to public pressure

3) Combination of the 2, especially with the rumors of atleast one of the pilots being Israeli which Pak kept secret on purpose and used for leverage with the US and Israel

 

[khanasifm]

Look if u are trying to convince someone on the others idea forget it

Move on bottom line iaf did not even accepted they lost anything and claimed all aircraft are back safely only when pilot was produced they accepted

Not first time move on

 

[aliyusuf]

Look if u are trying to convince someone on the others idea forget it

Move on bottom line iaf did not even accepted they lost anything and claimed all aircraft are back safely only when pilot was produced they accepted

Not first time move on

Although you are absolutely right in your post, but before moving on, we have to admit that @Pak-Canuck has compiled all the main video clips out there on the social media in place and summarized the possible outcome all in one convenient bundle.

A little while later another Indian member will come up with a cock-n-bull story of their own. This particular post will come in handy to debunk that member's moronic arguments when he/she attempts to derail our threads.

 

[Pak-Canuck]

Although you are absolutely right in your post, but before moving on, we have to admit that @Pak-Canuck has compiled all the main video clips out there on the social media in place and summarized the possible outcome all in one convenient bundle.

A little while later another Indian member will come up with a cock-n-bull story of their own. This particular post will come in handy to debunk that member's moronic arguments when he/she attempts to derail our threads.

Thanks, indeed all the clips are arranged to debunk any false claim, feel free to reference this entire post any time

 

[LegitimateIdiot]

Okay, I know this has been discussed NUMEROUS times now, but please read this ENTIRE post as it's a good video analysis / comparison:

We pretty much have three versions of events:

1) PAF shot down 1 IAF Mig-21 and that same Mig-21 took out a PAF F-16 (View supported by majority of indians)

2) PAF shot down 1 IAF Mig-21 AND 1 IAF SU-30 (View supported by majority of Pakistanis)

3) PAF shot down 1 IAF Mig-21 (View supported by a good number of people from both sides)


NOW THEN, I know most of these videos have been seen before, but PLEASE HAVE A COMPLETE LOOK at ALL of them again:

1) Clip of shootdown, in vid guy clearly says 2 parachutes there

2) Vid of witness of Abhinandan capture and complete sequence of events

3) Vid recently discovered and uploaded of INDIAN witnesses claiming how their plane went over border and CAME BACK AND CRASHED IN SHER MAKRI in IOK

4) NOW FOR THE REALLY INTERESTING clips that may have been forgotten by lots of members or may not have been seen. ANOTHER WITNESS who saw Abhinandan being captured ALONG WITH SIKH PILOT(S)

5) Full clip of Abhinandan being taken into Pak army truck and Witnesses TALKING ABOUT THE OTHER 2 CAPTURED (Part 1)

6) Full clip of Abhinandan being taken into Pak army truck and Witnesses TALKING ABOUT THE OTHER 2 CAPTURED (Part 2)

Now then, for all intents and purposes, view point number 3 about only 1 IAF mig-21 going down can be CLEARLY thrown out the window because of all these clips, which leaves viewpoints #1 and #2. But then Clip number 3 states clearly that IAF plane went down in Sher Makri (so can't be Abhinandan's Mig-21) and CANT BE a PAF F-16 (otherwise they would have displayed that footage non-stop for the rest of eternity). Sher Makri is ALSO IN NOWSHERA sector, where this Indian anchor clearly let this slip:

7)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDSp3hnfZlg


And Clip #4-6 clearly mention other pilots being captured, with AT LEAST ONE BEING Sikh which only supports viewpoint number 2 with the IAF plane crashing in IOK and the pilots landing in Azad Kashmir. Don't then forget DG ISPR's initial post about 3 prisoners taken, later changed to 1.

So I know the common response by the nay-sayers would be:

A) Pak beat up and killed their own pilot, which has been debunked by clip #3 & 4 above,
B) Why change statement from 3 to 1 and why hide the fact then?

Well some probable answers would be:

1) The other captured pilots could then be easily interrogated and or tortured for info as their country wants to deny that they were even shot down or captured so no consequences there (don't underestimate the value of a captured Weapon Systems Officer, i.e details like IAF Su-30 weapon countermeasures, tactics, squadron info, planes in which hangars etc etc)

2) As per some sightings and reports, the sikh pilot(s) died as their chute caught on fire or made a bad landing and pak not wanting to escalate the issue as the image we were portraying is that we never intended to cause loss of life in either the ground strikes or with pilot capture, and handed over the dead body without displaying images unlike with Abhinandan as it would have forced Indians to do atleast some sort of retaliation due to public pressure

3) Combination of the 2, especially with the rumors of atleast one of the pilots being Israeli which Pak kept secret on purpose and used for leverage with the US and Israel

lol that 1st Video You could see them using ropes to Secure Abhindan has Pakistan ever thought of getting handcuffs

 

[Mrc]

lol that 1st Video You could see them using ropes to Secure Abhindan has Pakistan ever thought of getting handcuffs

Well with how things are going with iaf we sure will need handcuffs soon enough

 

[paritosh]

Okay, I know this has been discussed NUMEROUS times now, but please read this ENTIRE post as it's a good video analysis / comparison:

We pretty much have three versions of events:

1) PAF shot down 1 IAF Mig-21 and that same Mig-21 took out a PAF F-16 (View supported by majority of indians)

2) PAF shot down 1 IAF Mig-21 AND 1 IAF SU-30 (View supported by majority of Pakistanis)

3) PAF shot down 1 IAF Mig-21 (View supported by a good number of people from both sides)


NOW THEN, I know most of these videos have been seen before, but PLEASE HAVE A COMPLETE LOOK at ALL of them again:

1) Clip of shootdown, in vid guy clearly says 2 parachutes there

2) Vid of witness of Abhinandan capture and complete sequence of events

3) Vid recently discovered and uploaded of INDIAN witnesses claiming how their plane went over border and CAME BACK AND CRASHED IN SHER MAKRI in IOK

4) NOW FOR THE REALLY INTERESTING clips that may have been forgotten by lots of members or may not have been seen. ANOTHER WITNESS who saw Abhinandan being captured ALONG WITH SIKH PILOT(S)

5) Full clip of Abhinandan being taken into Pak army truck and Witnesses TALKING ABOUT THE OTHER 2 CAPTURED (Part 1)

6) Full clip of Abhinandan being taken into Pak army truck and Witnesses TALKING ABOUT THE OTHER 2 CAPTURED (Part 2)

Now then, for all intents and purposes, view point number 3 about only 1 IAF mig-21 going down can be CLEARLY thrown out the window because of all these clips, which leaves viewpoints #1 and #2. But then Clip number 3 states clearly that IAF plane went down in Sher Makri (so can't be Abhinandan's Mig-21) and CANT BE a PAF F-16 (otherwise they would have displayed that footage non-stop for the rest of eternity). Sher Makri is ALSO IN NOWSHERA sector, where this Indian anchor clearly let this slip:

7)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDSp3hnfZlg


And Clip #4-6 clearly mention other pilots being captured, with AT LEAST ONE BEING Sikh which only supports viewpoint number 2 with the IAF plane crashing in IOK and the pilots landing in Azad Kashmir. Don't then forget DG ISPR's initial post about 3 prisoners taken, later changed to 1.

So I know the common response by the nay-sayers would be:

A) Pak beat up and killed their own pilot, which has been debunked by clip #3 & 4 above,
B) Why change statement from 3 to 1 and why hide the fact then?

Well some probable answers would be:

1) The other captured pilots could then be easily interrogated and or tortured for info as their country wants to deny that they were even shot down or captured so no consequences there (don't underestimate the value of a captured Weapon Systems Officer, i.e details like IAF Su-30 weapon countermeasures, tactics, squadron info, planes in which hangars etc etc)

2) As per some sightings and reports, the sikh pilot(s) died as their chute caught on fire or made a bad landing and pak not wanting to escalate the issue as the image we were portraying is that we never intended to cause loss of life in either the ground strikes or with pilot capture, and handed over the dead body without displaying images unlike with Abhinandan as it would have forced Indians to do atleast some sort of retaliation due to public pressure

3) Combination of the 2, especially with the rumors of atleast one of the pilots being Israeli which Pak kept secret on purpose and used for leverage with the US and Israel

You know in the end, it comes down to which of our two countries can bury (no pun) the fact that a family lost a son/husband. Regardless of who is lying, it is horrible for someone willing to sacrifice their everything for the service of the nation.
Hoping a top cadre officer who had full knowledge of this, retires soon and gets an enlarged guilt conscience that forces him to publish tell-tale memoirs of what actually happened that day.