27 Feb 19: PAF shot down two Indian aircrafts inside Pakistani airspace: DG ISPR

[Trailer23]

Also, the simple fact that the PAF pilot who shot down the Mig 21 received a higher award than the pilot who supposedly downed the MKI shows that it's a fake claim. Why would a pilot who downed the MKI receive a lower award than the pilot who downed a Mig 21 when MKI is a much superior fighter to the Mig 21 ? Lol. This itself makes things clear.

PAF certainly isn't IAF.

Our Awards aren't based on who got a better kill... That could be the common practice in India.

Here, the Awards are given as per Rank.

P Off to Sqn Ldr - Tamgha-e-Jurat/Basalat/Imtiaz

Wg Cdr to Air Cdre - Sitara-e-Jurat/Basalat/Imtiaz

AVM to AM - Hilal-e-Imtiaz/Jurat

General/ACM/Admiral - Nishan-e-Imtiaz/Pakistan

Hope that answers your 'LOL'.

Note: When a Junior (Pilot Officer) shoots down a Rafale, he's gonna get the same award that he is entitled to as per Rank.

 

[Gandhi G in da house]

It's hilarious how Pakistanis on this forum keep harping on the Indian claim of downing an F-16 because there is no proof but they themselves show no proof of the downing of a Sukhoi .They will keep beating around the bush but wont accept that there is no proof of any downed fighter jet on Feb 27 except Abhi's Mig 21.

 

[loanranger]

Dear Keyboard warriors,
The future holds something so desisive that we will even forget that two Indian jets went down. Such will be the attrition dealt to the enemy.

 

[Gandhi G in da house]

PAF certainly isn't IAF.

Our Awards aren't based on who got a better kill... That could be the common practice in India.

Here, the Awards are given as per Rank.

P Off to Sqn Ldr - Tamgha-e-Jurat/Basalat/Imtiaz

Wg Cdr to Air Cdre - Sitara-e-Jurat/Basalat/Imtiaz

AVM to AM - Hilal-e-Imtiaz/Jurat

General/ACM/Admiral - Nishan-e-Imtiaz/Pakistan

Hope that answers your 'LOL'.

Note: When a Junior (Pilot Officer) shoots down a Rafale, he's gonna get the same award that he is entitled to as per Rank.

Even if this is true it is not proof of downing of a Sukhoi 30. Anyway, do you have an official Pakistan government source for the above classification of awards as per ranks ?

 

[Areesh]

Agreed. But the same thing holds true for PAF claim of shooting down a Sukhoi.

That's why you don't see me making that claim despite the fact that PAF has much more credibility than IAF anyways

PS: PAF didn't shot down its own heli neither lost its blackbox or failed to destroy a tin shed in Balakot so I don't know how you can compare the two claims

 

[Trailer23]

Anyway, do you have an official Pakistan government source for the above classification of awards as per ranks ?

Yeah, we Civilians carry a copy of the 'Classification of Awards' in our pockets. That is something which is provided to Officers. And (some) of us are directly/indirectly affiliated with them. Do you have the 'Classification of Awards' for the IAF, because last I checked the female controller was awarded the highest order for God knows what.

It's hilarious how Pakistanis on this forum keep harping on the Indian claim of downing an F-16 because there is no proof but they themselves show no proof of the downing of a Sukhoi .They will keep beating around the bush but wont accept that there is no proof of any downed fighter jet on Feb 27 except Abhi's Mig 21.

No, it's hilarious how you people think that you got the better of us when pretty much everyone outside India has said that the PAF got the best of the IAF - including a cunt like Christine Fair.

But what the hell, in our Defense there are two factors that come into play.
1. The Foreign Policy article which originated from the Pentagon/DoD.
2. The US Airmen that were based in Pakistan - monitoring the PAF F-16's.
So far, other than Foreign Policy, TIME, WSJ, NYT, WP and others have all covered our narrative.

Yours of shooting down a F-16 has been covered by...basically your own Media and that's where it ends.

There were quite a few of your fellow countrymen who were asking what happened to the 2nd Pilot (Rio) of F-16B (84606) flown by Sqn Ldr. Hassan Siddiqui. They made claims that he was killed by the Kashmiri's taking him for an Indian.

Right.

So in order for him to fall from the sky would mean...
F-16B (84606) was destroyed and isn't in our inventory.

Its not like the Rio fell from the sky & Hassan landed the jet without a canopy & his Rio.

So you know perfectly well where this conversation is going, right?
The F-16B from the 11th Sqn (Arrows) is present and perhaps you didn't see him standing with the rest of Team.

Do you think that we invited ALL those Foreign dignitaries and Foreign Military personal just to show them one video. I'm sure some were given a private screening of the events of 27th Feb. Keep in mind, that we've already offered anyone to come and examine Abhi-Nando's missiles.

But you like the rest of your kind, can question, doubt or whatever. You guys got the beating that was well deserved and there's more where that came from. Just test us again. Trust me, this time around...those very things that were falling from the sky won't be guided away.

 

[Ultima Thule]

Even if this is true it is not proof of downing of a Sukhoi 30. Anyway, do you have an official Pakistan government source for the above classification of awards as per ranks ?

Our air chief claims that just like your previous air chief beating the same drums again and again

Yeah, we Civilians carry a copy of the 'Classification of Awards' in our pockets. That is something which is provided to Officers. And (some) of us are directly/indirectly affiliated with them. Do you have the 'Classification of Awards' for the IAF, because last I checked the female controller was awarded the highest order for God knows what.

No, it's hilarious how you people think that you got the better of us when pretty much everyone outside India has said that the PAF got the best of the IAF - including a cunt like Christine Fair.

But what the hell, in our Defense there are two factors that come into play.
1. The Foreign Policy article which originated from the Pentagon/DoD.
2. The US Airmen that were based in Pakistan - monitoring the PAF F-16's.
So far, other than Foreign Policy, TIME, WSJ, NYT, WP and others have all covered our narrative.

Yours of shooting down a F-16 has been covered by...basically your own Media and that's where it ends.

There were quite a few of your fellow countrymen who were asking what happened to the 2nd Pilot (Rio) of F-16B (84606) flown by Sqn Ldr. Hassan Siddiqui. They made claims that he was killed by the Kashmiri's taking him for an Indian.

Right.

So in order for him to fall from the sky would mean...
F-16B (84606) was destroyed and isn't in our inventory.

Its not like the Rio fell from the sky & Hassan landed the jet without a canopy & his Rio.

So you know perfectly well where this conversation is going, right?
The F-16B from the 11th Sqn (Arrows) is present and perhaps you didn't see him standing with the rest of Team.

Do you think that we invited ALL those Foreign dignitaries and Foreign Military personal just to show them one video. I'm sure some were given a private screening of the events of 27th Feb. Keep in mind, that we've already offered anyone to come and examine Abhi-Nando's missiles.

But you like the rest of your kind, can question, doubt or whatever. You guys got the beating that was well deserved and there's more where that came from. Just test us again. Trust me, this time around...those very things that were falling from the sky won't be guided away.

Sir we should stop feeding troll like @Gandhi G in da house beating same drums again and again

 

[Gandhi G in da house]

Yeah, we Civilians carry a copy of the 'Classification of Awards' in our pockets. That is something which is provided to Officers. And (some) of us are directly/indirectly affiliated with them. Do you have the 'Classification of Awards' for the IAF, because last I checked the female controller was awarded the highest order for God knows what.

No, it's hilarious how you people think that you got the better of us when pretty much everyone outside India has said that the PAF got the best of the IAF - including a cunt like Christine Fair.

But what the hell, in our Defense there are two factors that come into play.
1. The Foreign Policy article which originated from the Pentagon/DoD.
2. The US Airmen that were based in Pakistan - monitoring the PAF F-16's.
So far, other than Foreign Policy, TIME, WSJ, NYT, WP and others have all covered our narrative.

Yours of shooting down a F-16 has been covered by...basically your own Media and that's where it ends.

There were quite a few of your fellow countrymen who were asking what happened to the 2nd Pilot (Rio) of F-16B (84606) flown by Sqn Ldr. Hassan Siddiqui. They made claims that he was killed by the Kashmiri's taking him for an Indian.

Right.

So in order for him to fall from the sky would mean...
F-16B (84606) was destroyed and isn't in our inventory.

Its not like the Rio fell from the sky & Hassan landed the jet without a canopy & his Rio.

So you know perfectly well where this conversation is going, right?
The F-16B from the 11th Sqn (Arrows) is present and perhaps you didn't see him standing with the rest of Team.

Do you think that we invited ALL those Foreign dignitaries and Foreign Military personal just to show them one video. I'm sure some were given a private screening of the events of 27th Feb. Keep in mind, that we've already offered anyone to come and examine Abhi-Nando's missiles.

But you like the rest of your kind, can question, doubt or whatever. You guys got the beating that was well deserved and there's more where that came from. Just test us again. Trust me, this time around...those very things that were falling from the sky won't be guided away.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sitara-e-Jurat

Wiki says Sitara e Jurat is conferrable on all ranks, not just to a few ranks. You don't have any source. Topic over.

Yeah, we Civilians carry a copy of the 'Classification of Awards' in our pockets. That is something which is provided to Officers. And (some) of us are directly/indirectly affiliated with them. Do you have the 'Classification of Awards' for the IAF, because last I checked the female controller was awarded the highest order for God knows what.

No, it's hilarious how you people think that you got the better of us when pretty much everyone outside India has said that the PAF got the best of the IAF - including a cunt like Christine Fair.

But what the hell, in our Defense there are two factors that come into play.
1. The Foreign Policy article which originated from the Pentagon/DoD.
2. The US Airmen that were based in Pakistan - monitoring the PAF F-16's.
So far, other than Foreign Policy, TIME, WSJ, NYT, WP and others have all covered our narrative.

Yours of shooting down a F-16 has been covered by...basically your own Media and that's where it ends.

There were quite a few of your fellow countrymen who were asking what happened to the 2nd Pilot (Rio) of F-16B (84606) flown by Sqn Ldr. Hassan Siddiqui. They made claims that he was killed by the Kashmiri's taking him for an Indian.

Right.

So in order for him to fall from the sky would mean...
F-16B (84606) was destroyed and isn't in our inventory.

Its not like the Rio fell from the sky & Hassan landed the jet without a canopy & his Rio.

So you know perfectly well where this conversation is going, right?
The F-16B from the 11th Sqn (Arrows) is present and perhaps you didn't see him standing with the rest of Team.

Do you think that we invited ALL those Foreign dignitaries and Foreign Military personal just to show them one video. I'm sure some were given a private screening of the events of 27th Feb. Keep in mind, that we've already offered anyone to come and examine Abhi-Nando's missiles.

But you like the rest of your kind, can question, doubt or whatever. You guys got the beating that was well deserved and there's more where that came from. Just test us again. Trust me, this time around...those very things that were falling from the sky won't be guided away.

Firstly, i never claimed that IAF got the better of PAF on 27th Feb. I said clearly in one of my previous posts that PAF got the better of IAF on the said day. In fact, I used the word "incompetent" for IAFs performace on the day. My discussion here is strictly limited to Pakistan's claim of downing a Sukhoi.

Secondly, basically you will write long incoherent, beating around the bush posts that have nothing to do with anything but won't simply agree that just like India has no proof of downing of the F 16, Pakistan has no proof of downing of the Sukhoi. Anyway, i have already made my point, and dont wish to belabor it.

 

[Trailer23]

Your reply started with...

Wiki says...

'nuff said.

Anyway, i have already made my point, and dont wish to belabor it.

As i've made mine and I certainly do not wish to proceed with the likes of you...

 

[Gandhi G in da house]

Your reply started with...

'nuff said.

As i've made mine and I certainly do not wish to proceed with the likes of you...

Wiki is still a better source when you have no source at all for what you are claiming. Lol.

That is why i first asked you for a Pak govt. source. Such things in relation to classification of medals as per ranks must be found mentioned on government web sites. But you don't have any such source to back your claim.

 

[Trailer23]

Wiki is still a better source when you have no source at all for what you are claiming.

Wiki Leaks is basically a site than anyone can alter at any point. One can alter History on that site for God sake. Who knows, maybe Modi did reinvent the wheel. That would go well with him owning one of the first Digital Camera in the 80's & using the internet back then too.

But in all honesty, i'm glad you're taking so much interest in our Heros and their Medals. One should have clarity of the difference between earning a Medal and/or receiving it to save face.

 

[DrWatson775]

Dear Keyboard warriors,
The future holds something so desisive that we will even forget that two Indian jets went down. Such will be the attrition dealt to the enemy.

Yes the only thing holding PAF back in Feb were prevailing rules of engagement.
Do you have some info you can share about possible future engagements..

 

[Taha Samad]

So I do not understand based on all publicly available evidence, what are Indians happy about. If anything they should be kicking their Air Force Chief.

Even if we are brutally strict this how the score would stand for both Air Forces:

26th Feb:

i) IAF strikes: Shallow Airspace Violation of 12 Mirages only 4-5 bombs released. All missed target [1][2]
ii) PAF Response: Exact details not known, but PAF claims out of 12 Mirages(escorted by 8 Su-30) only 4 could deploy bombs before the formation had to disengage due to approaching interceptors.[3][4]


27th Fed:

i) PAF Strikes: PAF's stated mission was to demonstrate capability by striking near Indian Military Installation. Result: Success. 6 bombs weapons released, 1 more than the Indian claim.[5]
ii) IAF Response: Su-30, Mirage-2000 and Mig-21 responded.
iii) Final Score:: PAF: 1 Mig-21 Confirmed Kill, 1 Su-30 Probable or at the least a mission kill. IAF: No Kill, no missile fired. [6][7][8]

--

[1]: Analysis of Satellite Imagery by 3rd Party Defense Publications. Identified 3 impact points on side of hill. Indicating 3 targets(more on this later).
[2]: Local & International Media reported from area within hours so they would have picked up chatter/gossip from locals even if there was a cover up going on as claimed by Indians, but nothing of the sorts was reported.
[3]: This claim was made by AM Haseeb Paracha in Sept. 2019 special program celebrating successes of PAF.
[4]: India Media reported that 12 Mirages(6 Spice-2000 + 6 Popeye) + at least 4 Su-30 that participated in mission. Another Indian Media outlet reported that Mirages failed to deploy Popeye Missile due to weather that's why IAF has no video of strikes. But given Popeye has Inertial Navigation System complimented by TV/IR guidance and has day/night/severe-weather capability its strange it could not be deployed due to weather. Also Indian Media reported that of 6 Spice-2000((3 for 1 single target + 1 each for remaining 3) only 5 were launched against "3 of 4" targets.

Analysis: NationalInterest article also identifies 3 impact points on side of the hill through satellite, which would indicate the 3 targets. Its unlikely that off the 5 weapons launched against 3 targets; 3 missed and 2 ended up on target since all would have been programmed with similar target coordinates.

Reuters reported four large craters on ground, which would either mean that 1 of the bombs hit in or around the existing crater from earlier bombs. This would also explain PAF assertion that only 4 bomb craters were found. Again its highly unlikely that off 5; 4 ended up on side of the hill and 1 ended up hitting the top when they would have been programmed with similar coordinates.


https://nationalinterest.org/blog/b...strike-shows-how-hard-precision-bombing-49397
https://indianexpress.com/article/e...i-popeye-jaish-training-camp-balakot-5602272/

https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/exc...e-in-pakistans-balakot-by-mirage-2000-2028332
The Spice 2000 bombs were aimed at "four targets, of which three were hit. One [was hit] with three [bombs] and the remaining two with one bomb each," said a source familiar with the operations that day.

https://indianexpress.com/article/i...s-in-jaish-madrasa-were-hit-official-5607623/
"Two Reuters reporters who visited the site of the bombings, where four large craters could be seen, said up to 15 pine trees had been brought down by the blasts. (Reuters)"

[5]: PAF stated objective from get go was "capability demonstration by striking empty spaces near Indian Military Installation". IAF agreed that PAF bomb struck empty spaces within/near Indian Military installations and hence this was act of Military aggression. So PAF claim was seconded by IAF itself. Moreover PAF showcased video from at least 1 target and given nature of H2/H4 any military expert would understand that if PAF wanted it could have struck on that target at least.
[6]: PAF showcased all missiles from Mig-21 either intact or still attached to the wreckage. Even before PAF; defense enthusiats were able to identify these parts around Mig-21 wreckage.
[7]: IAF showed AMRAAM piece; whose state indicated that war head exploded. Whether this happened due to Chaff or fighter itself is not known. But none the less Su-30 were out of the fight and PAF completed it mission with ease. So at the very least this missile achieved a mission kill of Su-30.
[8]: PAF used the words "it threatened PAF strike package..." in its memorial; which indicates Su-30 was targeted as it threatened PAF Strike Package, so even a mission kill is important in this case.

 

[HawkEye27]

Base Commander of Mushaf Air Base in Operation Swift Retort

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[loanranger]

Yes the only thing holding PAF back in Feb were prevailing rules of engagement.
Do you have some info you can share about possible future engagements..

Yes we had to follow strict ROE's. Otherwise we had nine locks but only got two clearances. Future engagements are bound to occur as the Kashmir issue gains momentum. No one is planning to attack just for the heck of it currently.