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27 Feb 19: PAF shot down two Indian aircrafts inside Pakistani airspace: DG ISPR

It’s beating a dead horse by now but after 4 years Pakistan still has not provided any evidence of ever hitting yet alone downing any MKI. The question becomes, why if Pakistan claimed to hit an MKI they did not release any evidence?
Even F-16.net was forced to admit that their source was only Alan Warnes (a journalist with extremely extremely close ties to PAF for many years)
http://www.f-16.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=57254&sid=4d6b2407eba5ac840c3211f2c80decfc

Even Alan Warnes admitted that his AFM article (Su-30 claim ) was entirely copied from PAF Kaiser Tufail blog.


So again, where is proof? It can’t be for “classified” reasons because even Americans often release proof of kills, or at the least the wreckage of kills claimed by America often is found. In Pakistan’s case not only have they not released any proof of anything but no wreckage has ever been found. We know the general area where the MKI was operating but no one found the wreckage, pilots or took video or photos.

So the MKI is 72’ in length, can hold up to 20,700lbs fuel, and can have a maximum take off weight of 76,000lbs but no wreckage? How does an aircraft that large just vanish? How would no one notice a fireball and smoke that would probably rise 500-1000+ feet? Is it a cover up? In that case why India did not cover up the MI-17 downing? India let hostile enemy civilians come up to the wreckage and even take photos. Ironically the MI-17 crashed only 250 metres outside an Indian paramilitary base, yet India could not and did not cover up the wreckage.

So to recap:

No HUD
No radar data
No satellite images of wreckage
No audio release of Indians acknowledging a downing
No identity of downed pilots
No tail number
No wreckage pics
No missing or dead fighter pilots
No smoke plumes or fireball
No photos of any kind
No videos
No witnesses
No acknowledgement from India (both officially or unofficially) of losing any MKI.
 
DE79ED5C-3C29-4738-B8C2-B50EBF4FF302.jpeg
 

Remember ‘Swift Retort’?​





By Lt Gen (Retd) Naeem Khalid Lodhi


February 27, 2023


We keep on listening to Indian rhetorics nearly at all the political and military levels, Prime Minister Modi, Defence Minister, Army Chief, Commander Northern Command, etc, trying their best , though in vain, to intimidate the people of Pakistan by announcing their readiness and intentions to capture Azad Kashmir, Gilgit Baltistan.

We know that Indian Defence Budget is about ten times more than that of Pakistan , they have some important strategic agreements with a Super Power, have acquired some advance weapons like S 400 ABM Systems that could destabilise the Strategic Balance, and pursuing diplomatic and economic moves to enhance their military, political and economic prowess. They have all the rights to do everything good for their people and the country, Pakistan cannot grudge most of the developments except for the negative destabilising efforts like acquisitions of ABMs, maligning Pakistan by fabricating and spreading false information, undermining our efforts to break free from FATF (and we have ultimately succeeded), and other restraining regimes.

We are aware that we need to put our own house in order, specially our economy, governance and Law & Order etc. But we also fully understand the roles of Economic Hitmen, employment of proxies against us in the shape of TTP, BLA and others. The intentions behind attacks on Chinese and supporting certain movements in the north and south of the Country have also not escaped our attention.

Whereas we might have done a lot of harm to ourselves due to some internal myopic policies, yet the steps taken by the enemies of Pakistan and especially Indian efforts to exploit the weaknesses and fissures thus exacerbating our difficulties should never be lost sight of. And if we add to this spectre the recent aggressive statements by Indian political and military leadership and their offensive posturing, strategically thinking minds can easily visualise the Grand Designs likely to unfold in future. Enemies of Pakistan would try their best keeping the destabilised political, economic and security environment to perpetuate. To that end they would keep adding fuel by cautioning the investors to remain away, use influence to prevent any help coming from International Finance Institutions, create internal and external misunderstandings through fake news and disinformation campaigns etc.

They are employing special media tools and efforts to create a chasm between the people and the Armed Forces, thankfully that this enemy effort it is now being understood by the sane factions of the society. It would be the ultimate desire of the enemies of the State to pull Pakistan Army into the quagmire of political and economic mess, thus diverting their attention from hardcore security issues and discrediting them in the masses. And after fixing the environment at their desirable low level, move for the Coup de Grace by physically attacking some limited spaces, with a view to causing limited destruction on Armed Forces of Pakistan below a certain threshold, attempting to discredit and embarrass them. This is where the author intends to remind the Indian political and military leadership of certain other ground realities.

Decades of stringent training of the armed forces of Pakistan along with the acquired and indigenously manufactured modern weaponry has given us a certain fighting potential that is not going away anytime soon. The world witnessed the entire saga of Indian Airforce incursion violating our airspace (any border violations in Azad Kashmir tantamount to attack on Pakistan) and our response in the shape of “Swift Retort”.

It exhibited our successful integration of surveillance, Command and Control, delivery means with real- time battlefield awareness. Our Navy kept the Indian submarines at bay by detecting them much away from territorial waters, not once but twice. And recent unearthing of some planned false flag operations even before their implementation should give an indication of our intelligence outfits. The ongoing operations of CTD and Police against terrorists, and the way attack on Karachi Police Headquarters was repulsed says volumes about the capacity of our Law Enforcement Agencies.

All said and done, presently we do have some serious political and economic issues, that are being tackled at various levels, and may take some time to resolve; nevertheless people of Pakistan should remain confident that Pakistan Armed Forces, our Intelligence Agencies and other LEAs are in a satisfactory state to beat back any external aggression and internal terrorism attempts. If Indian aggressive intents are getting any fillip from the numerous Security Agreements that they have with other powers, they must evaluate Pakistan’s special and deep relations with some of our Friends, even if there are no overt Defence Pacts.

Pakistan Armed Forces are keeping their fighting potential sharp by maintaining highest training standards and a lot of hands on experience in fighting and defeating the well trained, armed to teeth, foreign sponsored terrorists. We have exhibited our professional and operational fitness at a number of occasions while competing with other armies, navies and air forces of the world. Cambrian Patrol, Physical Fitness competitions, Army, Naval and Air Force Exercises at international and regional levels, etc, are some of the examples that clearly exhibit our fitness and inter operability prowess.

The economic stress, though ominous, so far, has not affected logistic stamina, morale and operational readiness of our forces. And on top of that the Strategic Deterrence is very much in place as a safeguard against any surprise move or unexpected breakthrough by enemy forces. The present routine visit of IAEA officials to carryout periodical inspection of our Civil Atomic Facilities was misconstrued and drummed as an intrusion in our military atomic facilities. It was a sponsored narrative that fell flat after appropriate clarifications.

As a rule, an atomic power should never be given a surprise as the reaction could be prompt and violent beyond any expectations. So it would be prudent on part of Indian leadership to desist from making belligerent statements and stop interfering in the internal affairs of Pakistan, including the negative propaganda blitz, unnecessarily trying to aggravate our internal problems, especially when India itself is highly vulnerable due to their internal mistreatment of minorities and failure to control numerous dissident movements in northeast and Indian Illegally Occupied Jammu and Kashmir. The referendum on Khalistan Movement is also a glimpse that what could happen to Mother India in future. With China now a full-fledged affected country due to Indian actions in Himalayas and Kashmir, Indian position has become even more untenable due to multi front scenario. We appreciate the economic development of our big neighbour, but will never accept the hegemony that is being projected through irresponsible statements and actions. We will be SWIFT IN OUR RETORT as was demonstrated just few years earlier, and defeat any aggression, Inshallah.

Let us live like peaceful and cooperative neighbours; and rather than aggravating each other’s vulnerabilities, we may coordinate and cooperate to resolve regional issues, act on the UN Resolutions as per the spirit and Principle of peaceful coexistence. If this simple and direct piece of neighbourly advice sinks in the heads of Indian leadership, numerous vistas of progress and peace can open in the region, otherwise as a last resort Pakistani People and Armed Forces combined are resolute to defend their integrity and honour at all costs, literally at any COST. And we retain enough wherewithal including modern well trained Forces and Strategic Capabilities to sour any wishful incursions.



By Lt Gen (Retd)

Naeem Khalid Lodhi
 
The Indians could have conducted an audit of their MKI inventory to debunk PAF’s assertion.

Its been 4 years already. Let’s just leave this topic and look forward.

It was just a small battle.

Pakistan has been losing on the strategic front. That needs to be reversed.
 
The Indians could have conducted an audit of their MKI inventory to debunk PAF’s assertion.

Its been 4 years already. Let’s just leave this topic and look forward.

It was just a small battle.

Pakistan has been losing on the strategic front. That needs to be reversed.
They are full of shit that's why they did not do it. Initially Indians were the ones who casually called for the 'F-16 count' like PAF did with Mirages post 1971 war to debunk Indian claims. But then DG ISPR called their bluff by actually doing it. Ghafoor had a very active role during and post Balakot events. He took harsh questions head on, and made sure that every internet rumor spread by Indians was squashed like a 🪲🐛.
 
The Indians could have conducted an audit of their MKI inventory to debunk PAF’s assertion.

Its been 4 years already. Let’s just leave this topic and look forward.

It was just a small battle.

Pakistan has been losing on the strategic front. That needs to be reversed.
They did ....audit showed one MKI deficit
 
india ki achi dhulai hoi thi aaj :lol:


i still remember 99% of indian posters on this forum was disappear for weeks and months .
ek bakwaas puranay zamaney ka soviet era jhaaj kya ni gira dia...

bhot ho gai chaand pe vacation, aa jao wapas ab

ab aap bhot down ho gae ho.. politically stable India se naap tol krna band karo
 
ek bakwaas puranay zamaney ka soviet era jhaaj kya ni gira dia...

bhot ho gai chaand pe vacation, aa jao wapas ab

ab aap bhot down ho gae ho.. politically stable India se naap tol krna band karo
tumhy ye baat india se poochny chayee . why they always send bakwaas soviet jet to fight . raptor of the east kidher tha us din ?

hamari to kismat kharab hai
1971 main mig-21 giray
1998 main mig 21 giray
2019 main mig 21 giray

hum se achi to indain airforce hai jis ne nya nakoor MI-171 missile mar ke gira diya tha 27 feb ko :rofl:
 

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