27 Feb 19: PAF shot down two Indian aircrafts inside Pakistani airspace: DG ISPR

[SrNair]

If we are to even believe your claim of amraam, it only proves the use of F16 at a certain time and not the loss of one - for the loss you need substantial evidence that you haven’t produced. An urdu idiom comes to mind “dum ka baal sa haathi banana” which literally translates to “to make an elephant from its tail’s hair”
Now about the use of F16s, if we take DG ISPRs statement he said F16s were not used in the offenaive, so the AMRAAMM use either makes that DG ISPR calcification false if used in the offense OR that the F16s were used in some other scenario and not in that specific offensive assault accross LOC; maybe DG ISPR just wanted to state the later case that F16s were not used in an aggressive manner against India accross LOC to not create an issue with US for us.

Anyway none of this proves the loss if you like think we used F16s in the attack - we can do a simple count of F16s once the situation cool, you are a secular democracy ao I dare you to do the same in India. F16s are ITAR controlled US equipment, and the US govt and Lockheed Martin will definitely like to know whether we have all the equipment with us or not (ie not supplied to China for reverse engineering) so there is no hiding my friend.

I have trust with the Armed forces - we have not hidden our thousands of soldiers deaths in WOT and also not covered the deatruction of much more prized aircrafts like Erieye and Orion - so truth will come out eventually.

What about the one you bought from Jordan ?
About DG ISPR.
He retracted three times regarding the number of pilots and fighters .Enough said .
How can we trust that source?

no they didn't. all you provided is proof of an amraam, which in the best case scenario for you, proves paf lied of not using f-16s. your service chiefs are further extrapolating that by implying since paf lied it must because they dont want to admit losing an aircraft, but let me remind you the falcons come with heavy strings attached, and not to mention the amraams, which states that we cannot use them without approval from the U.S. So the lie was told because telling the truth would mean breaking the agreement and that's not a good thing.

What about the one you purchased from Jordan in 2015 ,If I am not wrong ?
It also covered under US strings

 

[Riaz Hussain]

Here's your reply:

As posted by fellow member on another thread.

Again, the AIM-120C5 shown IS NOT part of PAF inventory.

what is that supposed to prove?
you do not approve a strike mission without escort when air superiority hasn't been achieved period.

What about the one you bought from Jordan ?
About DG ISPR.
He retracted three times regarding the number of pilots and fighters .Enough said .
How can we trust that source?



What about the one you purchased from Jordan in 2015 ,If I am not wrong ?
It also covered under US strings

every fuckin american thing comes with strings. even israeli airforce cannot sell or modify their american fighters without a nod from them.

 

[ziaulislam]

Tri Services Chief press conference cleared everything .
F16 used .Pakistan has American supplied F 16 and Jordan used F 16,If I am not wrong .
Whatever lie Pakistan saying about AIM can solve there.Mig 21 shot down F 16 and the same Mig 21 destroyed later.

Once Mig 21 replaced by LCA ,our pilots will perform even better .

Of this narrative works india will deescalate as modi can go with chest thumping

Doesnt need to work in international media they wont believe it as long as india believe it

 

[z9-ec]

what is that supposed to prove?
you do not approve a strike mission without escort when air superiority hasn't been achieved period.

I never said there was NO ESCORT.

Read the ARMAMENT part.

 

[TheDarkKnight]

What about the one you bought from Jordan ?

All US origin equipment is treated the same - Foreign third party sales are also approved by US.

As I said we definitely can park all our F16s and count it for the world or atleast the Americans will do the counting in their scheduled checks as per agreements.

About DG ISPR.
He retracted three times regarding the number of pilots and fighters .Enough said .
How can we trust that source?

Initially India claimed no loss and all pilots accounted for, and then IAF pilot arrest was publicly released - how do you trust your source then?

This is a separate discussion but I have given my opinion here on the changes in pilot count:
#BREAKING: PAF shot down two Indian aircrafts inside Pakistani airspace: DG ISPR

 

[Riaz Hussain]

I never said there was NO ESCORT.

Read the ARMAMENT part.

I know what thunders are capable of.
let me remind you once you load bombs on to a fighters it simply cannot maneuver that well. that's why when threatened, strike fighters drop their payload/external fuel tanks and then either engage the enemy fighters or egress out of there.
basically there will be escorts(multirole fighters with Air-Air payloads or dedicated air superiority fighters) and they will be part of the strike mission even-though they are not the ones doing the striking/bombing.

All US origin equipment is treated the same - Foreign third party sales are also approved by US.

As I said we definitely can park all our F16s and count it for the world or atleast the Americans will do the counting in their scheduled checks as per agreements.

Initially India claimed no loss and all pilots accounted for, and then IAF pilot arrest was publicly released - how do you trust your source then?

This is a separate discussion but I have given my opinion here on the changes in pilot count:
#BREAKING: PAF shot down two Indian aircrafts inside Pakistani airspace: DG ISPR

that's the difference. india did not claim they did not lose any aircrafts. it was their stupid media which did. their official statement never said they didnt lose any aircraft. while we on the other hand were officially giving incorrect statements as to how many pilots we had in our custody.

 

[Ali_Baba]

Things Learnt.
1 - PAFs rules of engagement(ROE) need to be changed. They allow India to get the initiative and force PAF to react, rather than stopping the issue stone cold dead. I hope PAF have learned their lesson and will change their ROE to fit the era we live in, and not some old dated notion of gentlemanly rules of the game.
Alot of bother could have been saved, if the Indias were convinced that PAF WILL shoot them down.
2 - More long range SAMs in the S400 class are required. PAF jets cannot be everywhere all the time. SAMs allow for a more persistent anti-aircraft denial capability.
3 - PAF needs to increase the number of squadrons/aircraft she has. PAF needs be more top heavy when compared to PA or PN. Next incident will start in the air, just like this one. If PAF has more aircraft, then we can stop it in the air. if PAF are weak, then the issue could spread further afield.
4 - I take back my comments about the ACM of PAF. He can keep his job. I do still think, he needs to visit action item 9 and formulate and execute a plan on those ideas.
5 - Actionable deterrence deters India(ergo a punch in the face from time to time). The strike by PAF bought home the message to Modi & Co that everytime they have political issues, a "surgical strike" against Pakistan an is not the answer to get voters to vote for you any more.
6 - IAF lies untell presented with the truth..
7 - GOI Lies untell presented with the truth.

 

[soundHound]

Ok ISPR was lying, and it was PAF dual pilots F16, tell me one thing Indian air chief and IAF must have footage of shoot out, they must have lock on. Atleast show proof like the whole world knows and seen the proof.

Pakistan will be busted out in open for all to see!!! Simple. Baat kr f*** with facts and evidence not Indian media lies.

Did Pakistan release any video of kill shot? Baat kr f*** with facts and evidence. IAF clealry mentioned about f16 radar signatures as well, do you expect someone to make that public?

 

[SQ8]

Did Pakistan release any video of kill shot? Baat kr f*** with facts and evidence. IAF clealry mentioned about f16 radar signatures as well, do you expect someone to make that public?

We prefer living breathing proof.
Your press conference is becoming a joke in military circles worldwide.

If there are radar signatures, one can present that video.

 

[Asian.Century]

Did Pakistan release any video of kill shot? Baat kr f*** with facts and evidence. IAF clealry mentioned about f16 radar signatures as well, do you expect someone to make that public?

When you have an Indian Pilot monkey locked down and shot down jet inside Pakistan you asking for a video kill shot, i am asking you to show one video kill shot of Pak F16 ur Tri chief claimed to proof his point.

Let me tell you Mirages and JF17s were strike package and F16s were not part of offensive but escort missions.

You should be begging like 1.2 b indians are for ur shot down pilot to be returned back and be thankful to Pakistan.

Nice to see Indian copyin my words “Baat Kr f*** with facts and evidence when ur media has made you high on cow steroids. you have none no little evidence shown of a actual piece of F16 metal then empty bakwas. Show the radar signatures and yet it doesnot show downing a F16 which everyone is asking from India.

 

[Thorough Pro]

Rich coming from a citizen of 1.3 billion psychos

Yawn. You can ask Sushma Swaraj for a medical visa for your psych eval. We will go together.

 

[Asian.Century]

Busted Full video of Pakistani shot Mig-21 which indian claimed as F16 inside Pakistani LOC.

 

[Jammer]

Wow they have been reduced to showing parts of ordnance to salvage their totally broken pride , this pic should be put in the records , reduced to showing debris as some kind of face saving

From denial of first not losing any aircraft , to not losing in air to air combat , they were peddling stories that ground fire brought down the aircraft to showing debris as proof of their air to air loss this is EPIC !




View attachment 543018

You know what, I thought about it and resisted and waited and based on the information I have, I would have resigned before I had to show that spent missile as the only evidence of a PAF plane being shot down. I feel bad for the young IAF pilots that have to cling onto a lie. They were baited, they interdicted, and they got there clocks cleaned, as simple as that! Just like we have practiced a thousand times while doing the CCS and other exercises.

 

[Ultima Thule]

The PAF has now come up with details of the pilot of the ill fated F 16. The F-16 pilot who was killed yesterday has been now identified by PAF as Wg Cdr Shahzaz Ud Din of No 19 Squadron flying F-16 He is the brave son of Air Marshal Waseem Ud Din, DCAS(Operations).

https://twitter.com/x/status/1101141807054807040

go **** off # 19 sqn is oldest of F-16 and no capability of firing Amraam @Arbiter

The trap thing is accepted. Smart move actually. You lost one jet though, shot down by a Mig 21. The shot out jet was F-16. The 'use' of which at least was established recently. which your PAF has denied so vehemently until recently.
Again I reiterate missiles cannot be integrated on a jet of your choice unless the OEM helps out and US agreeing to share codes to integrate that missile on a jet with Chinese avionics, radar etc are slim, to put it mildly.

So for fanbois claiming it was a JF-17 shooting AIM. shhh them

If air war breaks out then be sure of one thing, this smart move won't work twice and all your planes will have to do actual dogfights for establishing air supremacy. There won't be any place to turn back to.

My point exactly. You guys are not admitting that F-16 were used, but an AIM WAS fired. It can only be fired by F-16. So the lie gets caught.
And please don't tell me you integrated the AIM on a jet with chinese avionics and radar!

PAF knows the truth now. Only their morale matters. Yahoos on the net can do all the chest thumping they want. The objective has been achieved.

suppose this, raid included JF-17 and Mirages, F-16 was second line of defense, expecting the intrusions by the result of raid and as for your information AIM-120 is BVR and has a 105 km range, what you have on Bison Derby 60 Km or basic R-77 which has a range of 80 Km, thats why you have Amraam
wreckage in your area and F-16 stayed far away from you BVRs destroy your target and return

2 more pilots ejected(f16),

And what a proof that it was a F-16D it also might be possible that it was MKI @soundHound

Tri Services Chief press conference cleared everything .
F16 used .Pakistan has American supplied F 16 and Jordan used F 16,If I am not wrong .
Whatever lie Pakistan saying about AIM can solve there.Mig 21 shot down F 16 and the same Mig 21 destroyed later.
suppose this, raid included JF-17 and Mirages, F-16 was second line of defense, expecting the intrusions by the result of raid and as for your information AIM-120 is BVR and has a 105 km range, what you have on Bison Derby 60 Km or basic R-77 which has a range of 80 Km, thats why you have Amraam
wreckage in your area and F-16 stayed far away from you BVRs destroy your target and return
Once Mig 21 replaced by LCA ,our pilots will perform even better .

He shot down one of your F 16

suppose this, raid included JF-17 and Mirages, F-16 was second line of defense, expecting the intrusions by the result of raid and as for your information AIM-120 is BVR and has a 105 km range, what you have on Bison Derby 60 Km or basic R-77 which has a range of 80 Km, thats why you have Amraam
wreckage in your area and F-16 stayed far away from you BVRs destroy your target and return

What about the one you bought from Jordan ?
About DG ISPR.
He retracted three times regarding the number of pilots and fighters .Enough said .
How can we trust that source?

What about the one you purchased from Jordan in 2015 ,If I am not wrong ?
It also covered under US strings

suppose this, raid included JF-17 and Mirages, F-16 was second line of defense, expecting the intrusions by the result of raid and as for your information AIM-120 is BVR and has a 105 km range, what you have on Bison Derby 60 Km or basic R-77 which has a range of 80 Km, thats why you have Amraam
wreckage in your area and F-16 stayed far away from you BVRs destroy your target and return

Did Pakistan release any video of kill shot? Baat kr f*** with facts and evidence. IAF clealry mentioned about f16 radar signatures as well, do you expect someone to make that public?

suppose this, raid included JF-17 and Mirages, F-16 was second line of defense, expecting the intrusions by the result of raid and as for your information AIM-120 is BVR and has a 105 km range, what you have on Bison Derby 60 Km or basic R-77 which has a range of 80 Km, thats why you have Amraam
wreckage in your area and F-16 stayed far away from you BVRs destroy your target and return

 

[denel]

You know what, I thought about it and resisted and waited and based on the information I have, I would have resigned before I had to show that spent missile as the only evidence of a PAF plane being shot down. I feel bad for the young IAF pilots that have to cling onto a lie. They were baited, they interdicted, and they got there clocks cleaned, as simple as that! Just like we have practiced a thousand times while doing the CCS and other exercises.

I dont blame the pilots; it is their stupid illiterate politicians who want to use their pilots as cannon fodder to gain points to ensure people are rilled up so that they can put votes into the ballot boxes and leveraging a corrupted media to fuel the stupid fire. If you care to examine - the pilot is south indian - he is respectful and will honour his word; the others - sorry will change colours like cameleons.