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1973 Ramadan war: Plans of liquidation of the "gap" - comprehensive "Chaamil" plan

Hi,

If you can---read about Gen Sharon---he was Col Sharon during that war---. he decimated the egyptian flank and then destroyed the egyptian army---and the cease fire was called and he did not stop for days---despite orders from top---.

Soldiers like that make the history of their nations proud---.

That action was similar to " Operation Linebacker 2 " in vietnam.
No actually he was General Sharon in the 1973 war and got a severe beating trying to go into Ismaelia city.. read the first posts from people (generals) who fought the actual war..
Just facts of the real war..pure and simple..verifiable in many books, magazines and articles..and what can one say more that the Usraeli president himself!?
 
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No actually he was General Sharon in the 1973 war and got a severe beating trying to go into Ismaelia city.. read the first posts from people (generals) who fought the actual war..
Just facts of the real war..pure and simple..verifiable in many books, magazines and articles..and what can one say more that the Usraeli president himself!?

Hi,

Sorry Gen Sharon---called back from retirement

I read another book that stated the same as wiki but in detail---he supposedly decimated the egytian fanks and kept on fighting even after the cease fire---was threatened by the top brass---but did not stop.

Could he have overrun Cairo???

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ariel_Sharon

"
How are we going to get out of this?" Sharon replied, "You don't know? We will cross the Suez Canal and the war will end over there." Sharon arrived at the front, to participate in his fourth war, in a civilian car.[42] His forces did not engage the Egyptian Army immediately, despite his requests. Under cover of darkness, Sharon's forces moved to a point on the Suez Canal that had been prepared before the war. In a move that again thwarted the commands of his superiors, Sharon's division crossed the Suez, effectively winning the war for Israel.[15] He then headed north towards Ismailia, intent on cutting the Egyptian second army's supply lines, but his division was halted south of the Fresh Water Canal.[43]


Sharon's 143rd Division, crossing the Suez Canal, in the direction of Cairo, October 15, 1973
Abraham Adan's division passed over the bridgehead into Africa, advancing to within 101 kilometers of Cairo. His division managed to encircle Suez, cutting off and encircling the Third Army. Tensions between the two generals followed Sharon's decision, but a military tribunal later found his action was militarily effective.

Sharon's complex ground maneuver is regarded as a decisive move in the Yom Kippur War, undermining the Egyptian Second Army and encircling the Egyptian Third Army.[44] This move was regarded by many Israelis as the turning point of the war in the Sinai front. Thus, Sharon is widely viewed as the hero of the Yom Kippur War, responsible for Israel's ground victory in the Sinai in 1973.[15] A photo of Sharon wearing a head bandage on the Suez Canal became a famous symbol of Israeli military prowess.

Sharon's political positions were controversial, and he was relieved of duty in February 1974.

http://www.historynet.com/the-arab-israeli-war-of-1973-honor-oil-and-blood.htm
 
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No actually he was General Sharon in the 1973 war and got a severe beating trying to go into Ismaelia city.. read the first posts from people (generals) who fought the actual war..
Just facts of the real war..pure and simple..verifiable in many books, magazines and articles..and what can one say more that the Usraeli president himself!?
Facts, since you like facts..who faced and stooped Sharon on his tracks? Certainly not the Egyptians since both of her armies that spearheaded the attack were surrounded and running out food...? The Soudaneses, the Somaliens?

Hi,

Sorry Gen Sharon---called back from retirement

I read another book that stated the same as wiki but in detail---he supposedly decimated the egytian fanks and kept on fighting even after the cease fire---was threatened by the top brass---but did not stop.

Could he have overrun Cairo???

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ariel_Sharon

"
How are we going to get out of this?" Sharon replied, "You don't know? We will cross the Suez Canal and the war will end over there." Sharon arrived at the front, to participate in his fourth war, in a civilian car.[42] His forces did not engage the Egyptian Army immediately, despite his requests. Under cover of darkness, Sharon's forces moved to a point on the Suez Canal that had been prepared before the war. In a move that again thwarted the commands of his superiors, Sharon's division crossed the Suez, effectively winning the war for Israel.[15] He then headed north towards Ismailia, intent on cutting the Egyptian second army's supply lines, but his division was halted south of the Fresh Water Canal.[43]


Sharon's 143rd Division, crossing the Suez Canal, in the direction of Cairo, October 15, 1973
Abraham Adan's division passed over the bridgehead into Africa, advancing to within 101 kilometers of Cairo. His division managed to encircle Suez, cutting off and encircling the Third Army. Tensions between the two generals followed Sharon's decision, but a military tribunal later found his action was militarily effective.

Sharon's complex ground maneuver is regarded as a decisive move in the Yom Kippur War, undermining the Egyptian Second Army and encircling the Egyptian Third Army.[44] This move was regarded by many Israelis as the turning point of the war in the Sinai front. Thus, Sharon is widely viewed as the hero of the Yom Kippur War, responsible for Israel's ground victory in the Sinai in 1973.[15] A photo of Sharon wearing a head bandage on the Suez Canal became a famous symbol of Israeli military prowess.

Sharon's political positions were controversial, and he was relieved of duty in February 1974.

http://www.historynet.com/the-arab-israeli-war-of-1973-honor-oil-and-blood.htm
Sharon was not view by many of his mates as a hero, in fact he was blamed for the severe losses Israel suffered ...He lost his tank brigade and over 700 of the best trained troops that the Tsahal had under his command..He and his aide were the only survivors on his foray toward Ismailiya..
 
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Hi,

Gen Sharon hit the egyptian army from the flank---and smashed right thru---slaughtered them piecemeal---.
Facts, since you like facts..who faced and stooped Sharon on his tracks? Certainly not the Egyptians since both of her armies that spearheaded the attack were surrounded and running out food...? The Soudaneses, the Somaliens?


Sharon was not view by many of his mates as a hero, in fact he was blamed for the severe losses Israel suffered ...He lost his tank brigade and over 700 of the best trained troops that the Tsahal had under his command..He and his aide were the only survivors on his foray toward Ismailiya..

Hi,

Was Ismailya his last campaign for that war?
 
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Hi,

Sorry Gen Sharon---called back from retirement

I read another book that stated the same as wiki but in detail---he supposedly decimated the egytian fanks and kept on fighting even after the cease fire---was threatened by the top brass---but did not stop.

Could he have overrun Cairo???

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ariel_Sharon

"
How are we going to get out of this?" Sharon replied, "You don't know? We will cross the Suez Canal and the war will end over there." Sharon arrived at the front, to participate in his fourth war, in a civilian car.[42] His forces did not engage the Egyptian Army immediately, despite his requests. Under cover of darkness, Sharon's forces moved to a point on the Suez Canal that had been prepared before the war. In a move that again thwarted the commands of his superiors, Sharon's division crossed the Suez, effectively winning the war for Israel.[15] He then headed north towards Ismailia, intent on cutting the Egyptian second army's supply lines, but his division was halted south of the Fresh Water Canal.[43]


Sharon's 143rd Division, crossing the Suez Canal, in the direction of Cairo, October 15, 1973
Abraham Adan's division passed over the bridgehead into Africa, advancing to within 101 kilometers of Cairo. His division managed to encircle Suez, cutting off and encircling the Third Army. Tensions between the two generals followed Sharon's decision, but a military tribunal later found his action was militarily effective.

Sharon's complex ground maneuver is regarded as a decisive move in the Yom Kippur War, undermining the Egyptian Second Army and encircling the Egyptian Third Army.[44] This move was regarded by many Israelis as the turning point of the war in the Sinai front. Thus, Sharon is widely viewed as the hero of the Yom Kippur War, responsible for Israel's ground victory in the Sinai in 1973.[15] A photo of Sharon wearing a head bandage on the Suez Canal became a famous symbol of Israeli military prowess.

Sharon's political positions were controversial, and he was relieved of duty in February 1974.

http://www.historynet.com/the-arab-israeli-war-of-1973-honor-oil-and-blood.htm
This thread is about what has happened after the crossing of the Canal..It is true that Sadat ordered an armoured brigade to advance without air cover, and it was almost decimated by Usraeli air and ground forces.. General Shazli and most field generals under his command were against this move.. but when the IDF crossed to the west side of the Canal then what has happened was described in details in the opening posts of this thread..All this direction of Cairo, direction of Damascus was mere propaganda..one can also say the Egyptians and the Syrians attacked in the direction of Tel Aviv!?

Hi,

Gen Sharon hit the egyptian army from the flank---and smashed right thru---slaughtered them piecemeal---.


Hi,

Was Ismailya his last campaign for that war?
He could not get into Ismaelia, most of his forces were decimated when he tried and he had to call for help many times..and everytime backup was sent it faced the same fate..So yes that was his last attempt in the war as he has said afterwards:' to tell you the truth, we did not know who was surrounding whom.."
Sharon was a Hero (as Usrael believes in myths) much before 1973, where he thought he made some good moves..but he found himself trapped along another two "famous" Usraeli Generals..Adan and Magen..
 
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This thread is about what has happened after the crossing of the Canal..It is true that Sadat ordered an armoured brigade to advance without air cover, and it was almost decimated by Usraeli air and ground forces.. General Shazli and most field generals under his command were against this move.. but when the IDF crossed to the west side of the Canal then what has happened was described in details in the opening posts of this thread..All this direction of Cairo, direction of Damascus was mere propaganda..one can also say the Egyptians and the Syrians attacked in the direction of Tel Aviv!?


He could not get into Ismaelia, most of his forces were decimated when he tried and he had to call for help many times..and everytime backup was sent it faced the same fate..So yes that was his last attempt in the war as he has said afterwards:' to tell you the truth, we did not know who was surrounding whom.."
Sharon was a Hero (as Usrael believes in myths) much before 1973, where he thought he made some good moves..but he found himself trapped along another two "famous" Usraeli Generals..Adan and Magen..

Hi,

When did Ismaliya happen---in the middle of the war or at the end of it---?
 
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Hi,

When did Ismaliya happen---in the middle of the war or at the end of it---?
Since the IDF crossing to the west side till the end of the war..with attempts to encircle the 3rd Egyptian army all along.. Ismaelia was the key to that, and IDF failed to achieve its main objective..everything is written in the opening reports..
 
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Since the IDF crossing to the west side till the end of the war..with attempts to encircle the 3rd Egyptian army all along.. Ismaelia was the key to that, and IDF failed to achieve its main objective..everything is written in the opening reports..

Hi,

Basically--Ismailya was like Chawinda for pakistan in a way---.

The IDF had already achieved their primary goal of the war---they were across the canal and into egyptian territory---. If Ismaliya fell--the road was clear going to cairo.

So what Gen Sharon was doing was putting everything into the last battle to get a final breakthrough to get to cairo---regardless of the cost---IDF had already won the war technically at that time---

And the egyptian military was laying down its life to save egypt from the final onslaught---.

This is no loss for Sharon---this is what generals do---his loss of his troops had no impact on the end result of the war---.

The war was already going in the favor of the israelis---ismailya would have added a very large feather to crown---.
 
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Well then who can say what would have happend if the war didn't stop, maybe we would have slaughtered the 3rd and 2nd armies or maybe it would be vise-versa. And no there is no source that Sharon's bridge head has failed since not only the "most of his forces were decimated when he tried" is false for in the start had had already another division (2 armored divisions) inside Africa the failure take Ismailia didn't cost him as nearly as bad as you believe, besides why not ignore this city any and head straight to Cairo? When his tanks were annihilating both armor elements and the AA batteries there was nothing the Egyptian military could do to deal with the return of the Israeli Air force to the battle field and effectively now free to blitzkrieg the living hell out of them the Egyptian air force was not nearly enough capable to do something about it.
 
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Hi,

Gen Sharon hit the egyptian army from the flank---and smashed right thru---slaughtered them piecemeal---.
Bullshit, his asss was handed to him on a bronze patter..by the Algerian troops..Only he and his aide de camp survived..That was the end of his brigade..


Hi,

Was Ismailya his last campaign for that war?
It was his for sure!
 
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Hi,

Basically--Ismailya was like Chawinda for pakistan in a way---.

The IDF had already achieved their primary goal of the war---they were across the canal and into egyptian territory---. If Ismaliya fell--the road was clear going to cairo.

So what Gen Sharon was doing was putting everything into the last battle to get a final breakthrough to get to cairo---regardless of the cost---IDF had already won the war technically at that time---

And the egyptian military was laying down its life to save egypt from the final onslaught---.

This is no loss for Sharon---this is what generals do---his loss of his troops had no impact on the end result of the war---.

The war was already going in the favor of the israelis---ismailya would have added a very large feather to crown---.
But why aren't you saying the same thing about the Egyptian crossing to east of the Canal.. no it makes no sense..reality is that all of the Usraeli forces who has crossed were trapped.. Kissinger himself testified to it..

upload_2017-8-28_16-58-39.jpeg

This is a Usraeli map..at the end of the war..

The map is from an Israeli site. It is intended for you to believe that Egypt has achieved what was required of it in the strategic direction that Sadat did on October 1 and signed it while Israel failed to implement all of its plans: the Ghazala, the courageous heart and the bathroom tower plans- all of which were failures.
This was very clear in the minutes of the Israeli leaders trial, who began to seep under the name of the Agranat Commission..

Here is a video of it:
 
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Well then who can say what would have happend if the war didn't stop, maybe we would have slaughtered the 3rd and 2nd armies or maybe it would be vise-versa. And no there is no source that Sharon's bridge head has failed since not only the "most of his forces were decimated when he tried" is false for in the start had had already another division (2 armored divisions) inside Africa the failure take Ismailia didn't cost him as nearly as bad as you believe, besides why not ignore this city any and head straight to Cairo? When his tanks were annihilating both armor elements and the AA batteries there was nothing the Egyptian military could do to deal with the return of the Israeli Air force to the battle field and effectively now free to blitzkrieg the living hell out of them the Egyptian air force was not nearly enough capable to do something about it.
That is a lot bull answering you own question.. I know Egyptians of PDF have a brain freeze, locked by Sawt el Arab, but you as an Israeli, should also, as Itold above the Saudi Cheerleader, to check his fact..Ariel brigade and the troops defending it were decimated by the Algerian 2BB who had just relieved ,the Egyptian that were badly mauled by few weeks of fighting...Ariel Sharon run for territory grabbing before the cease fire stooped that day..
You can verify the veracity of the info in Israel, a lot of you upper commanders who participated in that particular time, in that area wrote books...Algerians officers that dueled with the Tsahal, and against Sharon wrote books too, but were forbidden to put them to the public , in order to avoid to hurt the Egyptian sensibilities...
And Cairo skies were defended by Algerian squadrons...and it wasn't an easy task for the IAF to venture in that direction...ITT has been 47 years...it is time to let the truth be known..
 
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But why aren't you saying the same thing about the Egyptian crossing to east of the Canal.. no it makes no sense..reality is that all of the Usraeli forces who has crossed were trapped.. Kissinger himself testified to it..

Hi,

Egyptians crossing the canal---a surprise attack was brilliant---. But after that---after some victories----they got smashed---.

Taking out Ismailya was just a matter of time---if the cease fire was not called---ultimately---the IDF would have smashed thru the defences at ismailya---even though all those defending Ismailya fought very bravely---and handed Gen Sharon his ar-se in one of the battles---a battle that was the last defence of Egypt---they were fortunate that cease fire was called---.

Otherwise the egyptian military would have been decimated---and possibly cairo taken over---.

Read history thru the eyes of the victor---read history written by those who won---because that is what counts in the end.

And that is how you learn not to repeat the same mistakes again.

The bravery of the egyptian, moroccan or others in alliance cannot be challenged.
 
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Egypt right after the war..

Hi,

Egyptians crossing the canal---a surprise attack was brilliant---. But after that---after some victories----they got smashed---.

Taking out Ismailya was just a matter of time---if the cease fire was not called---ultimately---the IDF would have smashed thru the defences at ismailya---even though all those defending Ismailya fought very bravely---and handed Gen Sharon his ar-se in one of the battles---a battle that was the last defence of Egypt---they were fortunate that cease fire was called---.

Otherwise the egyptian military would have been decimated---and possibly cairo taken over---.

Read history thru the eyes of the victor---read history written by those who won---because that is what counts in the end.

And that is how you learn not to repeat the same mistakes again.

The bravery of the egyptian, moroccan or others in alliance cannot be challenged.

I agree with you: "Read history through the eyes of the victor".. in this instance it was Egypt..
Why would the US threaten Egypt.. if Usrael has smashed the EAF? can you answer this simple question?
The former president of Usrael testified to their defeat.. who are you trying to defend here?
Read post #87 again , they failed in Ismaelia, Suez city and in the gap.. all their plans were thwarted by the Egyptian armed forces..The best soldiers on earth ..according to the prophet of Islam..

Israeli public radio reported:
"Israel admitted for the first time by former military intelligence chief General Amos Yadlin that their crushing defeat in the October 6, 1973 war by Egypt's armed forces was due to the sudden element and their failure to predict the war."
 
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That is a lot bull answering you own question.. I know Egyptians of PDF have a brain freeze, locked by Sawt el Arab, but you as an Israeli, should also, as Itold above the Saudi Cheerleader, to check his fact..Ariel brigade and the troops defending it were decimated by the Algerian 2BB who had just relieved ,the Egyptian that were badly mauled by few weeks of fighting...Ariel Sharon run for territory grabbing before the cease fire stooped that day..
You can verify the veracity of the info in Israel, a lot of you upper commanders who participated in that particular time, in that area wrote books...Algerians officers that dueled with the Tsahal, and against Sharon wrote books too, but were forbidden to put them to the public , in order to avoid to hurt the Egyptian sensibilities...
And Cairo skies were defended by Algerian squadrons...and it wasn't an easy task for the IAF to venture in that direction...ITT has been 47 years...it is time to let the truth be known..

Again with the Algerian thing? Jesus, what is it with you Arabs and your national superiority over each other, I mean I'd understand if you were united with this superiority thing against Israel, but what are you even trying to do here? You had the same damn war goals.
 
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