1971, a story of fear, loss and hope

[DESERT FIGHTER]

You did not answer my question.

How many Pakistanis would accept Bangla as their language at that time (or even today if it was majority language)? And if they would not - then why?

That's an invalid point.

Multiracial states can't afford to appease certain groups.

Urdu speaks hardly make 8% of Pakistans population today...

Yet it is our de-facto national language. With English being in official use... And by constitution our national language..


If a Sindhi,Panjabi,Baloch,Pakhtun,Hazara it Balti can use it as a national language why break language barrier... What made Bengali special? Do you think we hate our languages and cultures ?

All fukin national drama. . Supported by india... Agartalla conspiracy...

 

[Centaur]

PS: I'm talking about majority, please don't confuse it with small percentage who stood for the unity of Pakistan - I salute those people but I cannot accept our army did something wrong by surrendering. More people would have died, though the surrender was biggest shame for a Muslim Soldier but in my view the people they were fighting and dying for were not worth it.

Hello brother please take your time and read my response fully, my English is limited so you may feel some problem, I apologize for this inconvenience.
I dont really blame you about your thoughts because currently we are taught, not only Pakistani and Bagladesh but also indians too as commoners always remain ignorant about those works of our policy makers.
One day I also used to think like you but with complete different side as Bengali victim hood etc etc.
So.my mind was full with hatred to Pakistan. Since I was born a decade after this civil war that became so called victims(Bengali) fight against Raiders (west Pakistani) , so it was not unnatural for peoples to hate Pakistan when he was learning that what Pakistan did, they murder us, they rape our women blah blah.... .
And same goes for west pakistanis too as you saw that lots of online Bengalis are brutally criticizing Pakistan without any good reason, without any proof and also you were taught by Pakistani (west Pakistan for me, because Pakistan is a bigger concept) govt and that is Bengalis were traitors, indian stooge etc etc, so you ( means lots of Pakistani, not all though) guys have negative idea about majority of Bengalis.
And India played a vital role from the beginning but that's different story.
However when I was growing as adult I was thinking about those drama and irrational contradictory sides of so called victimhood vs raider theory and many more it can't be explained in short.
But only some questions can solve some queries.
1969 and before all movement by Bengalis were against martial law and not against Pakistani authority.
Since Pakistan was created most of Pakistan prime ministers were from East Pakistan. Check the list https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Prime_Ministers_of_Pakistan
.check from 1947 to 1971.
And also in Pakistan army there was major general from East Pakistan ( this part I can't prove because military issue is always hidden from civilians), so there is no such crap named so called imparity and bengalis never rebel against military regime because of so called imparity.
All revolution is for democracy and it's not only for east Pakistanis but for west Pakistani brothers too who were equal suffered under military regime.
So there were no war between two Pakistan, all were just war against seperatists Indian paid Bengali they were few in numbers
Even mujib became their hostage and finally he called army after meeting with yahyha khan an surrendered to army so that army can take care of seperatists.

But when army failed and mujib was sent back to east Pakistan under control of India, there were no other option left for him except saying that this military intervation is freedom fight.
Because my friend before that 26 March night mujib had a huge army to save him from Indian prey and when he was send back to dhaka all army surrendered and no one was to protect him and his family.
So you would do the same if u were in his place.
And also most of Bengalis fought against muktis to hold Pakistan, and finally when the unrest was about to finish, then India directly attacked Pakistan and captured East.
It was the failure of ISI, failure against R&AW. It was a defeat of Pakistan against India, and sadly more than half Pakistani became helpless in sudden brutal Indian victim. And Pakistanis ( Bengali became suddenly in an identity less situation.

If you study carefully and impartially please read the book, ' Dead Reckoning' by sharmila bose. It is a very scholarly book, she wrote after lots of studies and she directly speak with Pakistani army officers and also bangladeshi commoners including some Hindus and then wrote the book.please get it and read it, you will not regret and you will know the truth. And other parts you need to equate after reading it,comparing it as I did. A truth seeker who really want to know reality,want to know their root, they can start with the book.
I hope pakstani brothers are not too stubborn to ignore the reality that who ( enemy, dragon, r&AW whatever you call it) were responsible for unrest in East Pakistan, they are playing the same dirty role inbalochistan too.
The main drawback of Bengal was Bengal had no land border with rest of Pakistan. And it's extremely hard to control war against well planed war against India from 3200 miles ( sea root) .
You see even few years ago stadium of bagladesh were full of Pakistani flags during cricket matches? Public feelings speak a lot and we shouldn't ignore this.

@countryman

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

To your first point I would say, it was the concept that a nation could be created solely on the basis of religion, i.e. religion itself could act as a unifier that was defeated. And Pakistan is hardly the first country to have the misfortune to prove that. Just look at the Middle East, where multiple nations have been created on the basis of religion but haven't stayed unified for long. Or Europe during the crusades.

To the second point....well Indra dying didn't bring back East Pakistan either did it? She did what she did and that's permanent.

It wasnt just religious but socio economical and ethnic factors at play too.

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

Another 71 thread.
Fk past think about the future. It's politician's brainwashing policy. If a referendum happened in 1974 I'm sure majority vote would have gone to united Pakistan's favor. That's how people's mentality change over time. Bengali Muslims were biggest supporter of creation of Pakistan before 1947.

This is the age of globalisation. Personally i think partition of India was a stupid idea. United sub continent would've been a way better and organized nation. Only good thing about Pakistan is that it's the only Muslim majority country with nuclear weapons. Thats it.

The best thing about Pakistan is that it is a safe space for a people with a unique racial, cultural and ethnic identity that is completely different to that of indian or bangladeshi people. Pakistan ensures that our race is preserved. There is no such thing as a "united indian subcontinent" or "shared south asian culture". There never was and never will be. These are made up non-existent constructs used by the British who cannot differentiate between various "Brown" people. That's all.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Hello brother please take your time and read my response fully, my English is limited so you may feel some problem, I apologize for this inconvenience.
I dont really blame you about your thoughts because currently we are taught, not only Pakistani and Bagladesh but also indians too as commoners always remain ignorant about those works of our policy makers.
One day I also used to think like you but with complete different side as Bengali victim hood etc etc.
So.my mind was full with hatred to Pakistan. Since I was born a decade after this civil war that became so called victims(Bengali) fight against Raiders (west Pakistani) , so it was not unnatural for a person go hate Pakistan when he was learning that what Pakistan did, they murder us, they rape our women blah blah.... .
And same goes for pakistanis too as you saw that lots of online Bengalis are brutally criticizing Pakistan without any good reason, without any proof and also you were taught by Pakistani (west Pakistan for me, because Pakistan is a bigger concept) govt and that is Bengalis were traitors, indian stooge etc etc, so you ( means lots of Pakistani, not all though) guys have negative idea about majority of Bengalis.
And India played a vital role from the beginning but that's different story.
However when I was growing as adult I was thinking about those drama and irrational contradictory sides of so called victimhood vs raider theory and many more it can't be explained in short.
But only some questions can solve some queries.
1969 and before all movement by Bengalis were against martial law and not against Pakistani authority.
Since Pakistan was created most of Pakistan prime ministers were from East Pakistan. Check the list https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Prime_Ministers_of_Pakistan
.check from 1947 to 1971.
And also in Pakistan army there was major general from East Pakistan ( this part I can't prove because military issue is always hidden from civilians), so there is no such crap named so called imparity and bengalis never rebel against military regime because of so called imparity.
All revolution is for democracy and it's not only for east Pakistanis but for west Pakistani brothers too who were equal suffered under military regime.
So there were no war between two Pakistan, all were just war against seperatists Indian paid Bengali they were few in numbers
Even mujib became their hostage and finally he called army after meeting with yahyha khan an surrendered to army so that army can take care of seperatists.

But when army failed and mujib was sent back to east Pakistan under control of India, there were no other option left for him except saying that this military intervation is freedom fight.
Because my friend before that 26 March night mujib had a huge army to save him from Indian prey and when he was send back to dhaka all army surrendered and no one was to protect him and his family.
So you would do the same if u were in his place.
And also most of Bengalis fought against muktis to hold Pakistan, and finally when the unrest was about to finish, then India directly attacked Pakistan and captured East.
It was the failure of ISI, failure against R&AW. It was a defeat of Pakistan against India, and sadly more than half Pakistani became helpless in sudden brutal Indian victim. And Pakistanis ( Bengali became suddenly in an identity less situation.

If you study carefully and impartially please read the book, ' Dead Reckoning' by sharmila bose. It is a very scholarly book, she wrote after lots of studies and she directly speak with Pakistani army officers and also bangladeshi commoners including some Hindus and then wrote the book.please get it and read it, you will not regret and you will know the truth. And other parts you need to equate after reading it,comparing it as I did. A truth seeker who really want to know reality,want to know their root, they can start with the book.
I hope pakstani brothers are not too stubborn to ignore the reality that who ( enemy, dragon, r&AW whatever you call it) were responsible for unrest in East Pakistan, they are playing the same dirty role inbalochistan too.
The main drawback of Bengal was Bengal had no land border with rest of Pakistan. And it's extremely hard to control war against well planed war against India from 3200 miles ( sea root) .
You see even few years ago stadium of bagladesh were full of Pakistani flags during cricket matches? Public feelings speak a lot and we shouldn't ignore this.

@countryman

My dear brother... Indians were directly attacking Pak troops since March of 1970.

In fact people like former Indian COAS VK singh have written biographies on which they boast about Indian soldier's in lungis fighting Pak troops and shouting Joy Bangla slogans to great their own GOC.

 

[Corona]

It wasnt just religious but socio economical and ethnic factors at play too.

Yes of course, but the common religion wasn't enough to overcome those problems right? The religion didn't appeal to West Pakistan to better take care of their eastern brothers. It didn't appeal to East Pakistan to make economic sacrifices to their western brothers, even if it was unfair for them.

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

Hello brother please take your time and read my response fully, my English is limited so you may feel some problem, I apologize for this inconvenience.
I dont really blame you about your thoughts because currently we are taught, not only Pakistani and Bagladesh but also indians too as commoners always remain ignorant about those works of our policy makers.
One day I also used to think like you but with complete different side as Bengali victim hood etc etc.
So.my mind was full with hatred to Pakistan. Since I was born a decade after this civil war that became so called victims(Bengali) fight against Raiders (west Pakistani) , so it was not unnatural for a person go hate Pakistan when he was learning that what Pakistan did, they murder us, they rape our women blah blah.... .
And same goes for pakistanis too as you saw that lots of online Bengalis are brutally criticizing Pakistan without any good reason, without any proof and also you were taught by Pakistani (west Pakistan for me, because Pakistan is a bigger concept) govt and that is Bengalis were traitors, indian stooge etc etc, so you ( means lots of Pakistani, not all though) guys have negative idea about majority of Bengalis.
And India played a vital role from the beginning but that's different story.
However when I was growing as adult I was thinking about those drama and irrational contradictory sides of so called victimhood vs raider theory and many more it can't be explained in short.
But only some questions can solve some queries.
1969 and before all movement by Bengalis were against martial law and not against Pakistani authority.
Since Pakistan was created most of Pakistan prime ministers were from East Pakistan. Check the list https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Prime_Ministers_of_Pakistan
.check from 1947 to 1971.
And also in Pakistan army there was major general from East Pakistan ( this part I can't prove because military issue is always hidden from civilians), so there is no such crap named so called imparity and bengalis never rebel against military regime because of so called imparity.
All revolution is for democracy and it's not only for east Pakistanis but for west Pakistani brothers too who were equal suffered under military regime.
So there were no war between two Pakistan, all were just war against seperatists Indian paid Bengali they were few in numbers
Even mujib became their hostage and finally he called army after meeting with yahyha khan an surrendered to army so that army can take care of seperatists.

But when army failed and mujib was sent back to east Pakistan under control of India, there were no other option left for him except saying that this military intervation is freedom fight.
Because my friend before that 26 March night mujib had a huge army to save him from Indian prey and when he was send back to dhaka all army surrendered and no one was to protect him and his family.
So you would do the same if u were in his place.
And also most of Bengalis fought against muktis to hold Pakistan, and finally when the unrest was about to finish, then India directly attacked Pakistan and captured East.
It was the failure of ISI, failure against R&AW. It was a defeat of Pakistan against India, and sadly more than half Pakistani became helpless in sudden brutal Indian victim. And Pakistanis ( Bengali became suddenly in an identity less situation.

If you study carefully and impartially please read the book, ' Dead Reckoning' by sharmila bose. It is a very scholarly book, she wrote after lots of studies and she directly speak with Pakistani army officers and also bangladeshi commoners including some Hindus and then wrote the book.please get it and read it, you will not regret and you will know the truth. And other parts you need to equate after reading it,comparing it as I did. A truth seeker who really want to know reality,want to know their root, they can start with the book.
I hope pakstani brothers are not too stubborn to ignore the reality that who ( enemy, dragon, r&AW whatever you call it) were responsible for unrest in East Pakistan, they are playing the same dirty role inbalochistan too.
The main drawback of Bengal was Bengal had no land border with rest of Pakistan. And it's extremely hard to control war against well planed war against India from 3200 miles ( sea root) .
You see even few years ago stadium of bagladesh were full of Pakistani flags during cricket matches? Public feelings speak a lot and we shouldn't ignore this.

@countryman

Half of Pakistan??????????????????..............bangladesh is 6× smaller than Pakistan since when does 1/2=1/6?????.........

From what you have written the same could be said that on August the 14th 1947 a Muslim minority was able to shread, dismember and spread open wide the legs of mother india to create Pakistan from conquered indian territory and there is nothing indian kind can EVER do to get that conquered territory back again


PS The situation in Balouchistan is completely different. The BLA movement is all but dead. Why do you think a global superpower like China is investing in billions of dollars there? Also, unlike bengalis, the Balouch are part of the Pakistani mainland. Not 1000s of kms away from us. They are also the same race as us. bengalis are not.

 

[Corona]

The best thing about Pakistan is that it is a safe space for a people with a unique racial, cultural and ethnic identity that is completely different to that of indian or bangladeshi people. Pakistan ensures that our race is preserved. There is no such thing as a "united indian subcontinent" or "shared south asian culture". There never was and never will be. These are made up non-existent constructs used by the British who cannot differentiate between various "Brown" people. That's all.

I'm sorry you feel that way. You do know that many people migrated from both countries during partition right?
I don't think any country can claim to be of a single pure race anymore, especially in the subcontinent. I don't think it's a bad thing, if anything it shows that we have things more important than who our ancestors were thousands of years ago to keep us united.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Yes of course, but the common religion wasn't enough to overcome those problems right? The religion didn't appeal to West Pakistan to better take care of their eastern brothers. It didn't appeal to East Pakistan to make economic sacrifices to their western brothers, even if it was unfair for them.

That's all nonsense..

I can actually find you a graph by World Bank from guise days comparing east and west wings.. The so called economic disparity is a myth.

Despite the fact that east Pak was historically less well off.. Due to various facts.

Unlike Pak which got Urdu speaking officials and bureaucrats and a strong army from British (due to historic representation of so called Martial races theory).

Bengali's were no where.. They were uneducated and were never part of the British army.

To top that.. Bengals sole export was jute.. But the tragedy was the massive typhoons that wrecked havoc every year..

All the early presidents and pms however were Bengali.

Ayub Khans regime actually spent more on east Pak than west..too.

 

[Corona]

That's all nonsense..

I can actually find you a graph by World Bank from guise days comparing east and west wings.. The so called economic disparity is a myth.

Despite the fact that east Pak was historically less well off.. Due to various facts.

Unlike Pak which got Urdu speaking officials and bureaucrats and a strong army from British (due to historic representation of so called Martial races theory).

Bengali's were no where.. They were uneducated and were never part of the British army.

To top that.. Bengals sole export was jute.. But the tragedy was the massive typhoons that wrecked havoc every year..

All the early presidents and pms however were Bengali.

Ayub Khans regime actually spent more on east Pak than west..too.

OK, but even if economic disparity was a myth, religion still couldn't keep East and West Pakistan together. I don't think any religion could've kept it together. Obviously, there was some reason that superseded religion.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

OK, but even if economic disparity was a myth, religion still couldn't keep East and West Pakistan together. I don't think any religion could've kept it together. Obviously, there was some reason that superseded religion.

Not religion... The factor was politics and India..


Greed and stupidity can even make two blood brothers kill eachother...

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

I'm sorry you feel that way. You do know that many people migrated from both countries during partition right?
I don't think any country can claim to be of a single pure race anymore, especially in the subcontinent. I don't think it's a bad thing, if anything it shows that we have things more important than who our ancestors were thousands of years ago to keep us united.

No such thing as "subcontinent". benglais and indians maybe the same race but Pakistanis are not. Pakistanis are much more racially closer to Iranians who border us than bangladeshis 1000 of kms away. "indian subcontinent" is a made up British construct to mistakenly group all Brown people together. Are Brazilians and Puerto Ricans from the "indian subcontinent"too?. They are after all brown aswell.

 

[Corona]

Not religion... The factor was politics and India..


Greed and stupidity can even make two blood brothers kill eachother...

India gave it the push it needed to topple. Won't argue with you there.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Hello brother please take your time and read my response fully, my English is limited so you may feel some problem, I apologize for this inconvenience.
I dont really blame you about your thoughts because currently we are taught, not only Pakistani and Bagladesh but also indians too as commoners always remain ignorant about those works of our policy makers.
One day I also used to think like you but with complete different side as Bengali victim hood etc etc.
So.my mind was full with hatred to Pakistan. Since I was born a decade after this civil war that became so called victims(Bengali) fight against Raiders (west Pakistani) , so it was not unnatural for peoples to hate Pakistan when he was learning that what Pakistan did, they murder us, they rape our women blah blah.... .
And same goes for west pakistanis too as you saw that lots of online Bengalis are brutally criticizing Pakistan without any good reason, without any proof and also you were taught by Pakistani (west Pakistan for me, because Pakistan is a bigger concept) govt and that is Bengalis were traitors, indian stooge etc etc, so you ( means lots of Pakistani, not all though) guys have negative idea about majority of Bengalis.
And India played a vital role from the beginning but that's different story.
However when I was growing as adult I was thinking about those drama and irrational contradictory sides of so called victimhood vs raider theory and many more it can't be explained in short.
But only some questions can solve some queries.
1969 and before all movement by Bengalis were against martial law and not against Pakistani authority.
Since Pakistan was created most of Pakistan prime ministers were from East Pakistan. Check the list https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Prime_Ministers_of_Pakistan
.check from 1947 to 1971.
And also in Pakistan army there was major general from East Pakistan ( this part I can't prove because military issue is always hidden from civilians), so there is no such crap named so called imparity and bengalis never rebel against military regime because of so called imparity.
All revolution is for democracy and it's not only for east Pakistanis but for west Pakistani brothers too who were equal suffered under military regime.
So there were no war between two Pakistan, all were just war against seperatists Indian paid Bengali they were few in numbers
Even mujib became their hostage and finally he called army after meeting with yahyha khan an surrendered to army so that army can take care of seperatists.

But when army failed and mujib was sent back to east Pakistan under control of India, there were no other option left for him except saying that this military intervation is freedom fight.
Because my friend before that 26 March night mujib had a huge army to save him from Indian prey and when he was send back to dhaka all army surrendered and no one was to protect him and his family.
So you would do the same if u were in his place.
And also most of Bengalis fought against muktis to hold Pakistan, and finally when the unrest was about to finish, then India directly attacked Pakistan and captured East.
It was the failure of ISI, failure against R&AW. It was a defeat of Pakistan against India, and sadly more than half Pakistani became helpless in sudden brutal Indian victim. And Pakistanis ( Bengali became suddenly in an identity less situation.

If you study carefully and impartially please read the book, ' Dead Reckoning' by sharmila bose. It is a very scholarly book, she wrote after lots of studies and she directly speak with Pakistani army officers and also bangladeshi commoners including some Hindus and then wrote the book.please get it and read it, you will not regret and you will know the truth. And other parts you need to equate after reading it,comparing it as I did. A truth seeker who really want to know reality,want to know their root, they can start with the book.
I hope pakstani brothers are not too stubborn to ignore the reality that who ( enemy, dragon, r&AW whatever you call it) were responsible for unrest in East Pakistan, they are playing the same dirty role inbalochistan too.
The main drawback of Bengal was Bengal had no land border with rest of Pakistan. And it's extremely hard to control war against well planed war against India from 3200 miles ( sea root) .
You see even few years ago stadium of bagladesh were full of Pakistani flags during cricket matches? Public feelings speak a lot and we shouldn't ignore this.

@countryman

On a national level people in Pak have moved on.

Few nationalists like me mourn the loss. .
There try to justify and make sense of it to satisfy themselves...

Majority doesn't care.

Reason being... It's been almost 5 decades... Several generations have passed..

India gave it the push it needed to topple. Won't argue with you there.

I would disagree.
According to your own officials..india was actively involved in crafting the whole situation... Directly and indirectly.

Stupidity of Pak politicians didn't help... Either did the greed n lust of Bengali politicians.

We lost East... East lost us.. India emerged the victor.

 

[Corona]

No such thing as "subcontinent". benglais and indians maybe the same race but Pakistanis are not. Pakistanis are much more racially closer to Iranians who border us than bangladeshis 1000 of kms away. "indian subcontinent" is a made up British construct to mistakenly group all Brown people together. Are Brazilians and Puerto Ricans from the "indian subcontinent"too?. They are after all brown aswell.

Not all Pakistanis look the same just like not all Indians look the same. There are Pakistanis who have a closer connection to Iran and there are those who don't. You're right about Bangladeshis being closer to Indians than Pakistanis, but again, there are Indians who are nothing like Bangladeshis.

On a national level people in Pak have moved on.

Few nationalists like me mourn the loss. .
There try to justify and make sense of it to satisfy themselves...

Majority doesn't care.

Reason being... It's been almost 5 decades... Several generations have passed..



I would disagree.
According to your own officials..india was actively involved in crafting the whole situation... Directly and indirectly.

Stupidity of Pak politicians didn't help... Either did the greed n lust of Bengali politicians.

We lost East... East lost us.. India emerged the victor.

I meant all that when I said we gave the push. Although I wouldn't say we crafted the situation. There were reasons for a division. We just fanned the flames when it started to involve us.