What's new

1500 years old Bible in which 'Jesus predicts coming of Prophet Muhammad' unearthed in Turkey

the original quranic script from the prophet's time been preserved, you can do the carbon dating test of it and be sure about it, anything else?

Yes, but every muslim that reads quran does NOT have that original script in their home. You can find Hindu's scriptures in south India's old libraries and do cardon testing.
 
This is laughable at best. Would be nice to religious bullshit is spread here. As a christian i feel insulted from this.

Keep it cool, young man. Nothing is more important than a human.
The muslim prophet is not in any bible. Thats a simple fact.

I apologize, if news has hurt you by any means.
We Muslims, believe in all books of God,.... Bible too, we believe that message of God was always same and universal.
Obviously, there is difference... on the matter of last prophet. At the same time we (you and us) cannot ignore the actual message and start debating the messenger, first.
Whereas, the message of God has always (in both compiled sets, titled Bible & Quran) been humanity and peace... which unfortunately suffer the most. I see the reason being ignorance.
Therefore, i ask you to raise your awareness in Bible and get its message sink into you. Prophet upon whom it is revealed and was instructed to spread, is just a matter of history.
However, Muslim belief remains that the prophets were the most dear of men to God and were blessed in various ways and Torah (Bible) as we call it was revealed in the language (Hebrew), which prophet Isa (Jesus) could use as communication to his people.
 
We worship the same GOD
We share the same 5 pricipals
We have the same 6 articles of Imaan
We have the same prophet
We believe up to the same Prophet (who brought the religion)
We pray facing the same kabbah

Did I say raise any objection to similarities? obviously, there are similarities..but there are differences as well.
 
There is not one scource from outside that proves muhammad existence.
Are you sure? Have you tried searching?
Dated Texts Mentioning Prophet Muḥammad From 1-100 AH / 622-719 CE

Below is a listing of dated Muslim and non-Muslim sources mentioning Prophet Muhammad.[18] To put Muslim and non-Muslim accounts in a chronological perspective, the death of the Prophet happened in Rabī al-Awwal, 11 AH / June, 632 CE.

List Of Dated Texts Mentioning Prophet Muḥammad From 1-100 AH / 622-719 CE

sarrow.gif
A Record Of The Arab Conquest Of Syria, 637 CE / 15-16 AH

This much faded note is preserved on folio 1 of BL Add. 14,461, a codex containing the Gospel accord to Matthew and the Gospel according to Mark. This note appears to have been penned soon after the battle of Gabitha (636 CE) at which the Arabs inflicted crushing defeat of the Byzantines. Wright was first to draw the attention to the fragment and suggested that "it seems to be a nearly contemporary notice",[19] a view which was also endorsed by Nöldeke.[20] The purpose of jotting this note in the book of Gospels appears to be commemorative as the author appears to have realized how momentous the events of his time were. The words "we saw" are positive evidence that the author was a contemporary. The author also talks about olive oil, cattle, ruined villages, suggesting that he belonged to peasant stock, i.e., parish priest or a monk who could read and write. It is worthwhile cautioning that the condition of the text is fragmentary and many of the readings unclear or disputable. The lacunae are supplied in square brackets.

... and in January, they took the word for their lives (did) [the sons of] Emesa [i.e., Ḥimṣ)], and many villages were ruined with killing by [the Arabs of] Muḥammad and a great number of people were killed and captives [were taken] from Galilee as far as Bēth [...] and those Arabs pitched camp beside [Damascus?] [...] and we saw everywhe[re...] and o[l]ive oil which they brought and them. And on the t[wenty six]th of May went S[ac[ella]rius]... cattle [...] [...] from the vicinity of Emesa and the Romans chased them [...] and on the tenth [of August] the Romans fled from the vicinity of Damascus [...] many [people] some 10,000. And at the turn [of the ye]ar the Romans came; and on the twentieth of August in the year n[ine hundred and forty-]seven there gathered in Gabitha [...] the Romans and great many people were ki[lled of] [the R]omans, ome fifty thousand [...][21]

There are certain observations to be made here. The phrase "turn of the year" signifies that the beginning of the note refers to the year 634-5 CE. The people of Emesa "took the word for their lives", an expression for surrendering on terms of tolerance, confirmed by oaths. Then there was a battle in Palestine with the "Arabs of Muhammad" in which many villages were ruined and people from the region of Galilee and Beth Sacharya(?), south west of Jerusalem were taken captive. Then the Arabs laid siege to Damascus (as read by Nöldeke).[22] In May, 635 CE, a Byzantine general of the rank of sakellarious was in the region of Emesa. His name according to the Byzantine sources was Theodor.[23] Apparently, he was unable to lift the siege. The next battle took place in Gabitha, a town to the north of the river Yarmuk in the Golan massif. The date of the battle is 20th August AG 947 = 636 CE / Rajab 15 AH, which agrees with the best Arab date for the battle of Yarmuk.[24] As mentioned earlier, the fragmentary nature of this note has resulted in scholars advising caution.[25]

sarrow.gif
Thomas The Presbyter (Writing c. 640 CE / 19 AH)

The 8th century BL Add. 14,643 was published by Wright who first brought to attention the mention of an early date of 947 AG (635-6 CE).[26] The contents of this manuscript has puzzled many scholars for their apparent lack of coherence as it contains an assembly of texts with diverse nature.[27] In relation to Islam and Muslims, there are two important dates mentioned in this manuscript.

AG 945, indiction VII: On Friday, 4 February, [i.e., 634 CE / Dhul Qa‘dah 12 AH] at the ninth hour, there was a battle between the Romans and the Arabs of Muḥammad [Syr. tayyāyē d-Mḥmt] in Palestine twelve miles east of Gaza. The Romans fled, leaving behind the patrician YRDN (Syr. BRYRDN), whom the Arabs killed. Some 4000 poor villagers of Palestine were killed there, Christians, Jews and Samaritans. The Arabs ravaged the whole region.

AG 947, indiction IX: The Arabs invaded the whole of Syria and went down to Persia and conquered it; the Arabs climbed mountain of Mardin and killed many monks there in [the monasteries of] Kedar and Benōthō. There died the blessed man Simon, doorkeeper of Qedar, brother of Thomas the priest.[28]

It is the first date above which is of great importance as it provides the first explicit reference to Muhammad in a non-Muslim source. The account is usually identified with the battle of Dathin.[29] According to Hoyland, "its precise dating inspires confidence that it ultimately derives from first-hand knowledge".[30] This means that the time period between the death of Muhammad (June, 632 CE) and the earliest mention of him (4th February, 634 CE) is slightly over a year and half!

sarrow.gif
Sebeos, Bishop Of The Bagratunis (Writing in 660s CE / 40s AH)

One of the most interesting accounts of the early seventh century comes from Sebeos who was a bishop of the House of Bagratunis. From this chronicle, there are indications that he lived through many of the events he relates. He maintains that the account of Arab conquests derives from the fugitives who had been eyewitnesses thereof. He concludes with Mu‘awiya's ascendancy in the Arab civil war (656-61 CE), which suggests that he was writing soon after this date. Sebeos is the first non-Muslim author to present us with a theory for the rise of Islam that pays attention to what the Muslims themselves thought they were doing.[31] As for Muhammad, he has the following to say:

At that time a certain man from along those same sons of Ismael, whose name was Mahmet [i.e., Muḥammad], a merchant, as if by God's command appeared to them as a preacher [and] the path of truth. He taught them to recognize the God of Abraham, especially because he was learnt and informed in the history of Moses. Now because the command was from on high, at a single order they all came together in unity of religion. Abandoning their vain cults, they turned to the living God who had appeared to their father Abraham. So, Mahmet legislated for them: not to eat carrion, not to drink wine, not to speak falsely, and not to engage in fornication. He said: 'With an oath God promised this land to Abraham and his seed after him for ever. And he brought about as he promised during that time while he loved Ismael. But now you are the sons of Abraham and God is accomplishing his promise to Abraham and his seed for you. Love sincerely only the God of Abraham, and go and seize the land which God gave to your father Abraham. No one will be able to resist you in battle, because God is with you.[32]

Sebeos was writing the chronicle at a time when memories of sudden eruption of the Arabs was fresh. He knows Muhammad's name and that he was a merchant by profession. He hints that his life was suddenly changed by a divinely inspired revelation.[33]He presents a good summary of Muhammad's preaching, i.e., belief in one God, Abraham as a common ancestor of Jews and Arabs. He picks out some of the rules of behaviour imposed on the umma; the four prohibitions which are mentioned in the Qur'an. Much of what he says about the origins of Islam conforms to the Muslim tradition.

sarrow.gif
A Chronicler Of Khuzistan (Writing c. 660s CE / 40s AH)

This is an anonymous and short Nestorian chronicle was aims to convey church as well as secular histories from the death of Hormizd son of Khusrau to the end of the Persian kingdom. Because of its anonymity, it is known to scholars Khuzistan Chronicle, after its plausible geographical location or Anonymous Guidi, after the name of its first editor. Amid his entry on the reign of Yazdgird, the chronicler gives a brief account of the Muslim invasions:

Then God raised up against them the sons of Ishmael, [numerous] as the sand on the sea shore, whose leader (mdabbrānā) was Muḥammad (mḥmd). Neither walls nor gates, armour or shield, withstood them, and they gained control over the entire land of the Persians. Yazdgird sent against them countless troops, but the Arabs routed them all and even killed Rustam. Yazdgird shut himself up in the walls of Mahoze and finally escaped by flight. He reached the country of the Huzaye and Mrwnaye, where he ended his life. The Arabs gained countrol of Mahoze and all the territory. They also came to Byzantine territory, plundering and ravaging the entire region of Syria. Heraclius, the Byzantine king, sent armies against them, but the Arabs killed more than 100,000 of them.[34]

In summary, concerning Muhammad, the chronicler says that he was the leader of the sons of Ishmael, whom God raised against the Persians.

sarrow.gif
Seven milestones on the Damascus-Jerusalem road from the reign of ʿAbd al-Malik ibn Marwan (65-86 AH / 685-705 CE). Some of them can be seen here. They start with the typical formula of

Bism Allāh al-raḥmān al-raḥīm lā ilāha illa-Allāh waḥdahu la sharīka lahu Muḥammad rasūl Allāh ...

In the name of God the Compassionate the Merciful. There is no god but God alone without partner and Muhammad is the Messenger of God ...

sarrow.gif
Drachm Of ʿAbd al-Malik Ibn ʿAbd Allāh, Zubayrid Governor Of Bīshāpūr, 66 AH / 685-686 CE.

Obverse margin: bism Allāh / Muḥammad rasūl / Allāh ("In the name of God, Muhammad is the Messenger of God").

sarrow.gif
John bar Penkaye (writing 687 CE / 67-68 AH)

Little is known about John bar Penkaye. He was a native of Fenek in north-western Mesopotamia and a resident of the monastery of John Kamul. It was in this monastery he wrote Ktābā d-rīš mellē ("Book of the Salient Points") and dedicated it to a person called Sabrisho‘, the abbott of this convent.[35] In his book John bar Penkaye wrote the chronicle of the world from Creation to his present day which he calls as the "severe chastisement of today".[36] His work seeks to treat the salient points of history in a brief fashion. For the issue which concerns us here, it is discussed in the fifteenth and the last chapter, where the Arab conquests and the devastating famine and plague of 67 AH / 686-67 CE are mentioned.[37] Concerning Muhammad, John bar Penkaye says that:

Having let their dispute run its course, after much fighting had taken place between them, the Westerners, whom they call the sons of ’Ammāyē, gained the victory, and one of their number, a man called M‘awyā [i.e., Mu‘awiya], became king controlling the two kingdoms, of the Persians and of the Byzantines. Justice flourished in his time, and there was great peace in the regions under his control; he allowed everyone to live as they wanted. For they held, as I have said above, an ordinance, stemming from the man who was their guide (mhaddyānā), concerning the people of the Christians and concerning the monastic station. Also as a result of this man's guidance (mhaddyānūtā) they held to the worship of One God, in accordance with the customs of ancient law. At the beginnings they kept to the traditions (mašlmānūtā) of Muḥammad, who was their instructor (tā’rā), to such an extent that they inflicted the death penalty on anyone who was seen to act brazenly against his laws.[38]

John bar Penkaye presented Muhammad as the "guide" and "instructor" whose "traditions" and "laws" the Arabs fiercely upheld. The term "tradition" (Syr. mašlmānūtā) implies that something is handed down, which suggests that the Muslims adhered to and enforced the example of Prophet Muhammad.[39] Concerning the term mhaddyānūtā, Brock points out that:

There is, however, one interesting term used for Mụhammad that terms up in both Monophysite and Nestorian sources, namely mhaddyana, "guide", a term that has no obvious ancestry, although the related haddaya is a Christological title in early Syriac literature.[40]​
 
Bottom line? Wow...how did it become bottom line when all you did was coz I said so scenario...Where is your proofs?

Historians have not been able to proof any alterations in the Quran so where do you put yourself? In the liars corner?

Its not a rocket science to know that. Just go look out and see the differences between Muslims themselves.
 
Did I say raise any objection to similarities? obviously, there are similarities..but there are differences as well.
These are basic similarities which makes you a Muslim...anything different doesnt affect you being a Muslim so where does your initial question stand?

Its not a rocket science to know that. Just go look out and see the differences between Muslims themselves.
Yes, it is rocket science esp when what makes you a muslim is same and that is all that should matter it is people like you who put religion into politics and make pompous people incapable of saying they dont know out loud!
 
there are religious difference between both Sunni and Shi'a and not all muslims share the same view.

Message of Allah has been universal, political and historical difference are the reasons of difference among the ignorant bunch.
Once you seek guidance from Quran, no more differences remain. Unless we have different versions of Quran too!
 
there are religious difference between both Sunni and Shi'a and not all muslims share the same view.

Tell me the religious differences they have from the Quran?

There is not one scource from outside that proves muhammad existence.

There are millions of his descendants all over the world, his enemies even spoke of him, and his grave is in Saudi Arabia. :cheesy:
 
ha ha i´m catholic. I know our bible so don´t lecture me in my religion. grazie.

then, why do the Catholics have a different amount of Bible volumes than the Protestants? On top of this, christian scholars themselves admit that the Bible have been altered through the ages. go figure...
 
Yes, but every muslim that reads quran does NOT have that original script in their home. You can find Hindu's scriptures in south India's old libraries and do cardon testing.

Yes we all have from east to west and from south to north. Our praying mode is Arabic only.
 
Its not a rocket science to know that. Just go look out and see the differences between Muslims themselves.

Half my family is shia and half is Sunni, tell me the religious differences again?

then, why do the Catholics have a different amount of Bible volumes than the Protestants? On top of this, christian scholars themselves admit that the Bible have been altered through the ages. go figure...

Bro they come out with a new edition each year it isn't even a secret anymore lol.
 
@DesiGuy you started with sympathizing with @MarkusS by saying Muslims want to attack Christians and Jews when you know not even the basics...Whereby we all believe at least from Adam to Abraham! We may differ after that but you hid the similarities

You used the same techniques for Shia and Sunni, you refused me showing you the similarities but want to highlight the differences....You fuel on fights which is disgusting! Really disgusting!

@MarkusS when we discuss dont stoop low because of your pride or anger...Even in the bible 7 sins are considered dangerously poisonous!
 
Yes, but every muslim that reads quran does NOT have that original script in their home. You can find Hindu's scriptures in south India's old libraries and do cardon testing.

If I give you my Quran from my home and you take it to I believe Turkey where they have the oldest Quran and you compare page by page there will be no difference.
 
Yes, but every muslim that reads quran does NOT have that original script in their home. You can find Hindu's scriptures in south India's old libraries and do cardon testing.
Maybe you need to differentiate the original texts from translations!
 

Latest posts

Pakistan Affairs Latest Posts

Back
Top Bottom