10 Privileges that PTM Enjoys but Not TLP

[pakpride00090]

You didn’t understand my point - it’s not about racism, it’s about cold blooded calculations and cost-benefit analysis of a particular approach to a particular problem.

Taking on Altaf’s MQM was easy because he had exiled himself to London, was increasingly acting like a Buffoon and MQM members in Pakistan were being approached for a break from him and the violent wing under his control.

The operation against Altaf & Altaf’s MQM wasn’t just done out of the blue with no preparation or analysis.

Altaf lost his support the moment he wanted to break Pakistan. I used to be a MQM supporter but parted ways when it became enormously clear that they are on an anti-state mission. This happened way before the raid on 90.

If Altaf was truly innocent and had muhajir community felt they had been unfairly targeted then I am 100% sure a civil war would have erupted in Karachi and Hyderabad. Remember , MQM was several times targeted in the past by Army , government and Sindhi/Pashtun nationalist. Every time MQM retaliated and killed members of every organization and ethnic community that attacked them. The only difference this time was that it lost the popular support it enjoyed from muhajirs.

No it's same all over again. We tried negotiation with TTP. And now with PTM. Wars especially civil war are not easy to fight.

TTP were/are all Pashtuns. The reason why they tried negotiation was because they kept giving excuses such as " ghumrah bache hain " , " apne bache hain magar rasta bhol gaye hain".

The major change came after APS.

 

[Xestan]

Tlp: burns a Tyre

Ptm: attacks an army check post and incites people to kill army officers in every other speech

@Xestan : TLP is violent while PTM is non violent

TLP: Hold the whole country under siege for 3 days

PTM: Holds non-violent rallies

 

[That Guy]

PTM has the support of PPP and PMLN, not because the later two like PTM, but because PTM is a useful tool for them.

 

[Jungibaaz]

PTM has the support of PPP and PMLN, not because the later two like PTM, but because PTM is a useful tool for them.

This sort of game has been long played in Pakistani politics, and a lot of this is not confirmed, I’ve also heard conspiracies from credible people about TLP being partially used as a pre-election political asset in Punjab.

As for PTM, I’m sure PML and PPP might view their influence in tribal areas as valuable opposition to PTI. But it’s really not that significant IMO.

The tribals they represent can’t win elections in their own areas. Apart from those two NA seats. The other issue, and the elephant in the room is the establishment.

PML and PPP may have games and schemes when it comes to PTI. But they’re not brave (or foolish enough) to take on the army (politically speaking).

And on of the big issues with PTM/ Pashteen et al. Is that now they are not just seen as political dissidents anymore... Some time last year DG ISPR gave a press briefing in which he alluded to possible links or contacts with foreign agencies in Afghanistan. No doubt there is some truth to this, otherwise he would not have said it, that is my reading of his words.

This means that now PTM is seen by establishment, not just as a group of political dissidents (which is what the movement is or should be at its heart), but it’s now tied to being a possible anti-state agent, and all the national security approach that comes with this is probably active.

So space for PML and PPP to use PTM as a political tool/ally, if it were ever that useful, is now diminished. They dare not get too involved, lest it be found at a later date that PTM’s leadership has gone fully rogue, fully anti-state and off-road.

PTM as political entity or its leadership. They might well have been contacted by anti-state foreign interests, but even if that hasn’t happened their anti-army rhetoric is too brazen and toxic for mainstream political parties to do anything with them. Even secretly it’s not possible.

My main concern isn’t with PTM’s leadership. They’ve intentionally or unintentionally caused massive credibility damage with their rhetoric. And if the allegations by ISPR in 19 were true then it’s worse.

But I am concerned about the underlying movement they represent. Tribals must have their concerns addressed. We can dismiss PTM as anti-state. But it is a terrible idea to do the same to ordinary disgruntled tribals.

 

[Enigma SIG]

you know tribal culture, they dislike checkpoints and indignity subjected on them and on their women, they also want land mines removed. And our agencies, as it has been shown in multiple cases, are fond of “picking up” those they deem trouble makers.

Maybe they should throw away their "tribal" baggage and start to become civilized like the rest of us normal folks? Demanding equal rights, yet not wanting tribalism to go away is very dishonest.

 

[Jungibaaz]

Maybe they should throw away their "tribal" baggage and start to become civilized like the rest of us normal folks? Demanding equal rights, yet not wanting tribalism to go away is very dishonest.

‘Tribalism’ isn’t the issue. Vilifying them is not the solution. They eventually need to be reconciled. Forget PTM for the moment, I’m talking about the regular people in parts of FATA.

 

[Enigma SIG]

‘Tribalism’ isn’t the issue. Vilifying them is not the solution. They eventually need to be reconciled. Forget PTM for the moment, I’m talking about the regular people in parts of FATA.

It is not vilifying if you want them to sober up and become part of civilization. You reconcile with people who are willing to compromise on a few of their ideals whatever they might be. In turn we compromise and give them space to live and work freely in the rest of the country. They can't have their cake and eat it too. They want all rights guaranteed to them by the constitution but then they don't want "other" people into their area. Hypocrisy much.

 

[Mrc]

The mere amount of shere racial slurs and ethno fascism displayed by PTM is enough for them in any civilised country to lose public office and have jail time

Our govt is sleeping as usual

Add incitement to list and put them away for 5 years

 

[Max]

The problem is we turn bats into Caronavirus ourselves and then we cry, such anarchist thrive on attention, just stop giving them attention as long as they are not violent, let them go desperate, they will commit even bigger blunders and expose themselves even more.

 

[Areesh]

TLP: Hold the whole country under siege for 3 days

PTM: Holds non-violent rallies

Non violent ptm like giving death threats to army officers in every speech, inciting people to attack them and attacking army check posts?

That is some unique definition of non violence you liberals have

 

[Rafi]

Non violent ptm like giving death threats to army officers in every speech, inciting people to attack them and attacking army check posts?

That is some unique definition of non violence you liberals have

Not only that, but they actively encourage mutiny in the armed forces.

 

[Areesh]

Not only that, but they actively encourage mutiny in the armed forces.

Yup

I have mentioned it as privilege # 2 in OP

 

[That Guy]

This sort of game has been long played in Pakistani politics, and a lot of this is not confirmed, I’ve also heard conspiracies from credible people about TLP being partially used as a pre-election political asset in Punjab.

As for PTM, I’m sure PML and PPP might view their influence in tribal areas as valuable opposition to PTI. But it’s really not that significant IMO.

The tribals they represent can’t win elections in their own areas. Apart from those two NA seats. The other issue, and the elephant in the room is the establishment.

PML and PPP may have games and schemes when it comes to PTI. But they’re not brave (or foolish enough) to take on the army (politically speaking).

And on of the big issues with PTM/ Pashteen et al. Is that now they are not just seen as political dissidents anymore... Some time last year DG ISPR gave a press briefing in which he alluded to possible links or contacts with foreign agencies in Afghanistan. No doubt there is some truth to this, otherwise he would not have said it, that is my reading of his words.

This means that now PTM is seen by establishment, not just as a group of political dissidents (which is what the movement is or should be at its heart), but it’s now tied to being a possible anti-state agent, and all the national security approach that comes with this is probably active.

So space for PML and PPP to use PTM as a political tool/ally, if it were ever that useful, is now diminished. They dare not get too involved, lest it be found at a later date that PTM’s leadership has gone fully rogue, fully anti-state and off-road.

PTM as political entity or its leadership. They might well have been contacted by anti-state foreign interests, but even if that hasn’t happened their anti-army rhetoric is too brazen and toxic for mainstream political parties to do anything with them. Even secretly it’s not possible.

My main concern isn’t with PTM’s leadership. They’ve intentionally or unintentionally caused massive credibility damage with their rhetoric. And if the allegations by ISPR in 19 were true then it’s worse.

But I am concerned about the underlying movement they represent. Tribals must have their concerns addressed. We can dismiss PTM as anti-state. But it is a terrible idea to do the same to ordinary disgruntled tribals.

Very good points.

I just ended a debate where the other guy was literally making such moronic points, and outright lying.

Reading an intelligent piece like this, was a breath of fresh air.

 

[YeBeWarned]

Tribal belt need carpet bombings ..

 

[Jungibaaz]

Tribal belt need carpet bombings ..

On one hand we have toxic PTM leadership rhetoric relating to the state and Punjabis and on the opposite hand are opinions and careless remarks such as this. Why can’t we all accept each other as Pakistanis?

Ours is a big country, and it was never meant to be a Borg-like, singleminded, unipolar entity. We are a big mix of cultures, ethnicities and politics. Jinnah had a vision of a multipolar democracy.

Dismissing or outlawing disenfranchised peoples is a bad approach. You’ve gone a few steps further, kindly retract these remarks. I’m sure you don’t actually believe what you’ve written there.