10 Privileges that PTM Enjoys but Not TLP

[Awan68]

You have to be careful not to conflate all Pashtun or even all Tribal Pashtun with the minority that joined the TTP. And the blame for so many joining the TTP also lies across the board, not just with the people of the Tribal areas. In my view, the power structure in the Tribal areas was ready for a strong, brutal entity like the TTP to step in and overthrow. The Tribal leaders were targeted one by one and the TTP, in contrast to the fractured tribes, was able to put up enough unified force in specific areas to overrun any local opposition. Even the pro-government Lashkar's were not always able to ward off the TTP long term without Army assistance.

That said, I don't agree with giving the PTM an ounce of sympathy or understanding - they are, as I mentioned in my earlier post, an ideologically racist and separatist movement that see themselves as closer to Afghanistan than Pakistan, and no amount of development and uplift in FATA is going to change racism - that is who they are and who they will always be. The focus should be on making sure that the number of Pashtun the PTM can exploit in support of its cause is minimized as much as possible, and with those ordinary Pashtun, it IS development, reconstruction and uplift that will make the difference.

Exactly, the war was easy, the real though job is the create reconciliation and national unity, it is going to take a mammoth effort to do that, the past 2 decades held the same significance for Pakistan as the civil war held for the US, now we needed to act smart and deal with a light hand with dissenting voices just as Umar(RA) used to advocate doing so with newly conquered areas. The state for once is acting as it should be.The war is over, there is no need to create another one.

 

[Areesh]

Not just Waziristan but whole of FATA... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tehrik-i-Taliban_Pakistan

Also , Manzoor Pashteen aka Manzoor Mehsud belongs to the same tribe from which all taliban leadership came from. The current leader of TTP is a mehsud.

We need to be clear in defining the enemy. It is the FATA people in the form of TTP who are source of 95% of all terrorism in Pakistan. I am not going to be politically correct here.

FATA people have their own genuine griviences too. Don't let as$holes like Manzoor made you think that they don't have genuine grivience

But the fact is that whole of FATA shouldn't be blame for PTM or even TTP.

It is the waziristan where these fitnas keep on emerging from and we need to do something about this area so that more fitnas don't arise from here

 

[Areesh]

It is the fault of our politicians for letting FATA remain no mans land since partition, we should have brought them to the mainstream and merged them with KPK decades ago and this problem wouldnt even exist, we have been dealing with these guys with colonial era draconion laws since 1947 for heavens sake, for them the British never left, atleast now we have smartend up, i guess "der aye durust aye". Dealing with internal threats is much more complicated that fighting an enemy overseas. It takes a delicate touch because the consequences of acts done in haste and as a result of natural instinct can haunt us for decades to come.

I know all that and don't deny it

But PTM isn't about any grievance or genuine problems. As @AgNoStiC MuSliM said, you might give them development up to level of Dubai and still they won't end their anti Pakistan charade. The whole movement isn't about any development or human rights or constitutional rights.

It is about breaking and dividing Pakistan. Don't get confused about it

 

[Awan68]

I know all that and don't deny it

But PTM isn't about any grievance or genuine problems. As @AgNoStiC MuSliM said, you might give them development up to level of Dubai and still they won't end their anti Pakistan charade. The whole movement isn't about any development or human rights or constitutional rights.

It is about breaking and dividing Pakistan. Don't get confused about it

I know what PTM is mate, not even for a second have i any doubt about there traitorous intentions, my only concern is the support they get, it is a political movement and hence needs to be dealt with politically, u dont fight words with fire. All there anti state speeches, they are bieng told to do that by there handlers in washington, they want to get a harsh reaction out of the state, they want blood, they want martyrs to give life to their movement, do u really advocate playing right into their hands?, this is what they want and we are not going to give it to them.....they can shriek and yell all they want, the state will remain unbudged and their movement will slowly die of its own accord but if we act on emotions then we will be back to square one in the tribal areas.

 

[pakpride00090]

You have to be careful not to conflate all Pashtun or even all Tribal Pashtun with the minority that joined the TTP. And the blame for so many joining the TTP also lies across the board, not just with the people of the Tribal areas. In my view, the power structure in the Tribal areas was ready for a strong, brutal entity like the TTP to step in and overthrow. The Tribal leaders were targeted one by one and the TTP, in contrast to the fractured tribes, was able to put up enough unified force in specific areas to overrun any local opposition. Even the pro-government Lashkar's were not always able to ward off the TTP long term without Army assistance.

That said, I don't agree with giving the PTM an ounce of sympathy or understanding - they are, as I mentioned in my earlier post, an ideologically racist and separatist movement that see themselves as closer to Afghanistan than Pakistan, and no amount of development and uplift in FATA is going to change racism - that is who they are and who they will always be. The focus should be on making sure that the number of Pashtun the PTM can exploit in support of its cause is minimized as much as possible, and with those ordinary Pashtun, it IS development, reconstruction and uplift that will make the difference.

Nope nope nope. What you described happened very late during the insurgency.

Army asked the tribes people to handover foreign al-qaeda militants who were living with them. They refused and hence undeclared war was started b/w them and Pakistan. Come to 2007 and TTP was formed.

After 2007 , they started killing rival tribes man to consolidate their power.

PTMs core leadership belongs to two major tribes. Wazir and Mehsuds ... both of these tribes together with orakzais formed the majority of TTP members.

Chinese had civil war that killed millions. Americans had civil war that killed hundreds of thousands. Russians had civilian wars that killed millions. Big deal if we neutralize few hundreds of these PTM goons.

No amount of appeasement will help. These PTM goons and naraz bache will keep on demanding more and more and changing goal posts. These are ethnic supermacist thugs that will not listen to reason. Also , they have absolutely no loyalty to this country and its territorial integrity.

I know what PTM is mate, not even for a second have i any doubt about there traitorous intentions, my only concern is the support they get, it is a political movement and hence needs to be dealt with politically, u dont fight words with fire..

Russia and China would disagree with you on that. Both of these giant powers brutally squashed any political or otherwise movement that threatened the state in any way or form.

Also , India was able to successfully crush Khalistan movement by raiding their holy temple and killing thousands of Sikhs. India is far better than us when it comes to managing internal secessionist movements.

The argument that violence doesn't solve problems is bogus.

 

[HttpError]

And yet our government and other state institutions will shamelessly turn a blind eye towards this and will continue to sing the lullabys about their great sacrifices. They should be dealt with an iron fist, hurry before it gets too late.

 

[YeBeWarned]

U need to look at what u are saying, MQM has been given there due share of lenience, maybe too much in the past, they had our economical hub by the balls and had to be handled when they grew out of propotion, as i said dont make this about ethinicity, pashtoon areas were bombed and dealt with an iron hand in zarb e azab or have u forgotten that? i am niether a pashtoon nor an urdu speaker so i have no alliegence to either of these so called ethinic groups, TTP was a predominately pashtoon group which was dealt with just as MQM was dealth with, PTM is a different story, it is a cancer that seeks to survive on a narrative of wrongs done to pashtoons, they seek to feed of the destruction caused in the wake of the WOT in tribal areas hence we need to deal with them more smartly.

MQM was a Political party while those Operations were conducted against the Terrorists, those who reject the country and its constitution. MQM on a party level did no such thing only Altaf did and he is paying for , now tell me why those PTM and Sindhdesh were given free hands to operate ? they openly talk about Killing Army man, deny constitution and treason ? Just because they are Pashtoon and they are second largest Ethnicity in Pakistan hence the soft hand . Trust me when i say, if a Urdu speaker or MQM person said half of it, the same Army will drag their kids and put the noose on their necks .

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

MQM was a Political party while those Operations were conducted against the Terrorists, those who reject the country and its constitution. MQM on a party level did no such thing only Altaf did and he is paying for , now tell me why those PTM and Sindhdesh were given free hands to operate ? they openly talk about Killing Army man, deny constitution and treason ? Just because they are Pashtoon and they are second largest Ethnicity in Pakistan hence the soft hand . Trust me when i say, if a Urdu speaker or MQM person said half of it, the same Army will drag their kids and put the noose on their necks .

My completely unfiltered opinion - the government and security apparatus decision to use force against the MQM and Altaf was based on a cost-benefit analysis that understood the fact that the MQM support base could not rally around any 'Pashtunistan' or 'Sindhudesh' type of separatist movement.

With the PTM, the government has to be more careful because, unlike the Baloch, the Pashtun's are (by some estimates) the second largest ethnic group in Pakistan and Afghanistan has been trying for decades to get them to rise up against Pakistan and join Afghanistan. Now whether giving the PTM the amount of leniency that has been shown so far is an example of being over cautious or not is debatable.

 

[YeBeWarned]

My completely unfiltered opinion - the government and security apparatus decision to use force against the MQM and Altaf was based on a cost-benefit analysis that understood the fact that the MQM support base could not rally around any 'Pashtunistan' or 'Sindhudesh' type of separatist movement.

With the PTM, the government has to be more careful because, unlike the Baloch, the Pashtun's are (by some estimates) the second largest ethnic group in Pakistan and Afghanistan has been trying for decades to get them to rise up against Pakistan and join Afghanistan. Now whether giving the PTM the amount of leniency that has been shown so far is an example of being over cautious or not is debatable.

There is no other way to explain the racism in our military establishment , yesterday one Atlaf was created if PTM gets even half of what it get than be ready for Jinnah Pur ( this time for real ) , SinduDesh and Azaad Baluchistan .

 

[pakpride00090]

There is no other way to explain the racism in our military establishment , yesterday one Atlaf was created if PTM gets even half of what it get than be ready for Jinnah Pur ( this time for real ) , SinduDesh and Azaad Baluchistan .

This happens when army is either dominated by punjabi or pashtuns... Same goes for bureaucracy and politics.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

There is no other way to explain the racism in our military establishment , yesterday one Atlaf was created if PTM gets even half of what it get than be ready for Jinnah Pur ( this time for real ) , SinduDesh and Azaad Baluchistan .

This happens when army is either dominated by punjabi or pashtuns... Same goes for bureaucracy and politics.

You didn’t understand my point - it’s not about racism, it’s about cold blooded calculations and cost-benefit analysis of a particular approach to a particular problem.

Taking on Altaf’s MQM was easy because he had exiled himself to London, was increasingly acting like a Buffoon and MQM members in Pakistan were being approached for a break from him and the violent wing under his control.

The operation against Altaf & Altaf’s MQM wasn’t just done out of the blue with no preparation or analysis.

 

[R Wing]

Just doing my part as a Pakistani even if the state is sleeping

Can't allow a whole ethnic group of my country being fooled to support a secessionist movement on the name of communal rights

Can't see people presenting pile of sh!t as gold and get away with it

More shocking is that educated, exposed and (apparently) intellectual people also get fooled by PTM's nonsense. It's truly bizarre. These human rights types should first demand that PTM advocates introspection in the tribal Pashtun community and a revisiting of all traditions that are against basic human rights --- so they should push Pashteen to advocate women's rights as well. We'll see how far he gets after that!

 

[Reddington]

Unless traitors and subversive/foreign backed ideologies are dealt with iron hands; traitors would keep popping up every now and then.

This happens when army is either dominated by punjabi or pashtuns

It has nothing to do with racism.
It is because Punjab has almost 60% of total population of Pakistan whereas Punjab and KPK combined have about 75% population of Pakistan. Muhajirs are not more than 5% of total population of Pakistan.

Also historically most of the recruitment for the British came from present day punjab and KPK. Punjabis and Pashtuns have been serving in army since the days of British because of the martial qualities of Punjabis and Pashtuns.

 

[pakpride00090]

Unless traitors and subversive/foreign backed ideologies are dealt with iron hands; traitors would keep popping up every now and then.



It has nothing to do with racism.
It is because Punjab has almost 60% of total population of Pakistan whereas Punjab and KPK both have about 75% population of Pakistan. Muhajirs are not more than 5% of total population of Pakistan.

Also historically most of the recruitment for the British came from present day punjab and KPK. Punjabis and Pashtuns have been serving in army since the days of British because of the martial qualities of Punjabis and Pashtuns.

What I am trying to say is that the delay in acting aggressively against PTM may have to do with racial composition of Pakistan army and civilian elite.

 

[Haris Ali2140]

What I am trying to say is that the delay in acting aggressively against PTM may have to do with racial composition of Pakistan army and civilian elite.

No it's same all over again. We tried negotiation with TTP. And now with PTM. Wars especially civil war are not easy to fight.