Zakir Naik: Pakistan should not have been created

[SarthakGanguly]

Well current way of treating minority is based on a liberal model, which never works.
Look at Europe and USA , Europe is liberal and even compromising on their own value for respecting muslims and yet thousands of muslims are going to syria from Europe..
But very few or negligible if compared to USA.
Same case with india..kerala and bengal has isis radicals while states like Haryana has none.
The world need to learn not to be snowflakes.

Good observations. Wrong conclusions.

1. Europe, for all its fear of Moslems, is largely devoid of them, except some urban centers. Only France and Sweden have substantial Muslims (percentage wise). Otherwise it is largely localized.
2. USA has even less.
3. Haryana has no such case because the most Muslims in East Punjab, Haryana etc were expelled during Partition. Just as Hindus and Sikhs were in the West.
4. The ideal solution is to STOP hating Muslims as PEOPLE and instead focus on weakening faith itself. Hindus, Sikhs etc take religion less seriously. So do Christians. So MUST Indians following the Islamic faith. Otherwise there is no chance of mixing. I understand that this dilution is contrary to Tawheed itself, but that is what is needed if we need to make it work.

It will work and peacefully too. Just need to divide Indian states, ideally just give muslims some huge amount of land near coast to migrate, vacate hindus from there to areas from where muslims left. This time no facade of secularism, be clear about it. Leave IoK, Nagaland which are non-hindu states who want nothing to do with India.

After that we can all live in peace and harmony.

No. Very impractical solutions.

Now it is too late for that.

2 things will happen.

1. Eventually IR Pakistan will invade India with tactical nukes. Within the next 10 to 15 years.
2. Then things can go either way. Either of us will eventually exist.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

If the partition was properly done in 1947 we wouldn't see the tensions that exist currently. We would both be in a better place.

I agree. You must understand though that there is land/people equation. When Sindh, Punjab, K-Pk and Balochistan federated they never agreed to take in every Muslim in South Asia. That is perverse. When Iqbal gave his 1930 speach he ever said the North West would take all of South Asian Muslims. This fallacy can be demonstrated like this. Assume if only Sindh had voted for Pakistan are you suggesting it would have been liable to take in every Muslim from South Asia?

The Indian Muslim have land inside india. They therefore have right to that. They should carve out their own countries there. For example Gujrat could be divided along the percentage by population profiles. In Pakistan for every Hindu or Sikh who was thrown out we took in 1.5 Muslims. We took in more than we chucked out so that was fair (although still tilted to India) exchange.

So anymore exchange shoulds bring land appropriate with numbers with it.

 

[Khanate]

Actually no.

Pakistan is the latest manifestation of Islamic rule in India. Think in times of Yugas or a much bigger time frame. Whats fifty to hundred years when compared with several millennia old civilizations?

India didn't exist 'several millennia ago'. Stop peddling these fairy tales.

 

[SarthakGanguly]

It will be our pleasure

I know.

We never justify those barbaric acts.

Umm, okay.

 

[Śakra]

4. The ideal solution is to stop hating muslims as people and instead focus on weakening faith itself. Hindus, Sikhs etc take religion less seriously. So do Christians. So MUST Indians following the Islamic faith. Otherwise there is no chance of mixing. I understand that this dilution is contrary to Tawheed itself, but that is what is needed if we need to make it work.

Not possible. To muslims their religion is more important than life itself. There is no way to make them less religious. We are having a clash of civilizations and it will destroy us. The best bet is a homeland for Dharmics and the muslims can have pakistan/bangladeshi

 

[Indus Pakistan]

India didn't exist 'several millennia ago'. Stop peddling these fairy tales.

Well, my surname is "Ali" therefore I existed 1,000 years ago and I spent some time in America in the 1960s boxing the hell out of people. Now me (Ali) is here. Logic 101 - if my name existed then I also existed 1,000 years ago.

 

[SarthakGanguly]

Precisely the problem. Any Indian demand to send Muslims to the land of the Indian Muslims (Pakistan) will create problems. The demand for more land will come FIRST.

Hence, we should look at track 2. Plan B.

Conversion of the people to Dharmic faiths. If Dawaah is legit, so is shuddhi. In fact some of the most successful Shuddhi movements were started in what exists as Pakistan today.

Our faiths are also beautiful and with the proper message and great proportion of the Muslim people can be influenced.

 

[kasper95]

Not possible. To muslims their religion is more important than life itself. There is no way to make them less religious. We are having a clash of civilizations and it will destroy us. The best bet is a homeland for Dharmics and the muslims can have pakistan/bangladeshi

What do you mean ? You are saying Muslims cannot live peacefully and coexist with others because of the religion.

 

[SarthakGanguly]

Not possible. To muslims their religion is more important than life itself.

To some, yes.

But every population is not a MONOLITH.

There are many successful mass reconversions.

Even some of our families and some our relatives reconverted to Dharma in the previous century. Under proper circumstances, with the right education, it is possible.

 

[MAS9]

Asking Indian Muslims to choose between religion and India will mean destruction of it.(india)

 

[SarthakGanguly]

It is funny to see armchair activists like us discussing so seriously. As if WE CONTROL ANYTHING.

 

[Tea addict]

The ideal solution is to STOP hating Muslims as PEOPLE and instead focus on weakening faith itself.

That's exactly what i meant when i said give them 2 more generations..by weakening i mean by weakening the rigidity in faith,and it for every faith.
Liberalism allows to keep that rigidity, as you can see in Europe. That's why i think uniform civil code and other similar laws are good thing...

 

[MAS9]

It is funny to see armchair activists like us discussing so seriously. As if WE CONTROL ANYTHING.

We represent a part of the public. Not all.
So a discussion is productive

 

[MAS9]

That's exactly what i meant when i said give them 2 more generations..by weakening i mean by weakening the rigidity in faith,and it for every faith.
Liberalism allows to keep that rigidity, as you can see in Europe. That's why i think uniform civil code and other similar laws are good thing...

Good luck with that

 

[Śakra]

What do you mean ? You are saying Muslims cannot live peacefully and coexist with others because of the religion.

I'm saying we are incompatible civilizations and this is leading to tension that boils over into violence.

To some, yes.

But every population is not a MONOLITH.

There are many successful mass reconversions.

Even some of our families and some our relatives reconverted to Dharma in the previous century. Under proper circumstances, with the right education, it is possible.

Most view islam as the most important aspect of them. Those will become less religious. As time goes on we are seeing a resurgence in conservative islam worldwide. Just because you have a few pieces of anecdotal evidence doesn't make your claim true