Zaid hamid latest: our real enemy is Hindu Banya

[shelly]

So, shelly, is telling someone he'll be under a burden of sin declaring war?
Your attack on our Prophet puts you under a burden of sin. So did I declare war?
May I say that your argument is foolish?


Those Hadith don't feature is Sahih Sitta and their validity is doubtful.
And no, no it wasn't. See treatment of prisoners at Badr

Ok i agree with you , i may be only half correct, as it can be seen from a different way saying that it will be bad for him if he doesnt convert.
So it can just be termed as proselytizing.

 

[truthseer]

Ok i agree with you , i may be only half correct, as it can be seen from a different way saying that it will be bad for him if he doesnt convert.
So it can just be termed as proselytizing.

How do you invite someone to a religion without proselytizing?

Back to topic though, Zaid Hamid is a nut case at times. He is right that peace can't be restored until all matters are settled but his war on India is nonsense

 

[illusion8]

How do you invite someone to a religion without proselytizing?

Back to topic though, Zaid Hamid is a nut case at times. He is right that peace can't be restored until all matters are settled but his war on India is nonsense

zakir naik is the Zaid Hamid of India, more Muslim that the real Muslims.

 

[vsdoc]

ok it still says if you want to remain on your throne you accept mohd as profet. well what mohd calls as true guidance could be false from some other perspective. again it was just empire building wiht a new name and format. quite brilliant in its concept i concede, but pure aggression too.

Very true, as described in "The Spread of Islam" by James Levi Barton.

An exerpt .....

"Until after the flight to Mecca [sic; the author certainly meant to write "Medina" (web editor)], Mohammed endeavored to propagate his new religion by persuasion rather than by force. His was a quiet, persistent search for favorable soil in which to sow the seed. After only eight years at Medina, when success had crowned his armed campaigns, the prophet is reported to have addressed a manifesto to the world inviting all mankind to submit to Islam. Ambassadors were sent to present these messages in person. Tradition declares that this message was as follows, quoting from the one said to have been sent to Emperor Heraclius:

In the name of God, the Merciful, the Compassionate, Mohammed, who is the servant of God and his apostle to Herclius the Emperor of Rome. Peace be on whoever has gone on the straight road. After this I say, verily I call you to Islam. Embrace Islam and God will reward you two-fold. If you turn away from the offer of Islam, then on you be the sins of your people. O people of the Book, come towards a creed that is fit both for us and for you. It is this - worship none but God and not to associate anything with God, and not to call others God. Therefore, O ye people of the Book, if ye refuse, beware. We are Muslims and our religion is Islam."

This would indicate that Mohammed saw a vision of world conquest for his new religion, and so began by asking certain sovereigns to accept him as a prophet Of God, and inviting all the world to the same privilege. From this time onward, the sword played a large part in the dissemination of Islam.

While Mohammed set out to found a new religion, he also established a new political order, different from anything that then was or that had previously existed. Starting with the idea that he wished only to convert his brethren to belief in one God, he overthrew the government of both Medina and Mecca, and, for the tribal rule by which the leading families shared in the conduct of public affairs, he substituted a theocratic monarchy centering in himself - the representative of God on earth.

Missionaries with the sword multiplied their activities, as success crowned their endeavors, to win neighboring tribes. Biographers of saints report that vast numbers were converted by the power of preaching the Gospel of Mohammed, although it is difficult not to believe that, in many instances at least, if reports are true, an army was waiting to strike in case the preacher's eloquence and persuasiveness failed to bring about the desired results. It is impossible to distinguish, in the narrative of the many conquests of Islam during the first century after the death of Mohammed, how much was due to religious zeal and how much to greed and political ambition.

Other methods have been employed by Mohammedans for propagating their faith, such as the purchase or forcible seizure of non-Moslem children in times of plague, famine, war and massacre, or even in times of no special disturbance, and rearing them in the Mohammedan faith. The Janissaries at Constantinople are a case in point. The children of Christians were taken regularly to replenish the ranks of this special body-guard of successive Sultans of Turkey. Another method employed to increase the number of ******* was the plurality of wives and the use of captive women of non-Moslem races as concubines. These two methods of propagation were conspicuously employed, and even to the present time are in use by the Turks."

 

[shelly]

How do you invite someone to a religion without proselytizing?

Back to topic though, Zaid Hamid is a nut case at times. He is right that peace can't be restored until all matters are settled but his war on India is nonsense

one has to understand when reading into past history especially of religious practices , thousands of years, that practices in those days may seem ghastly if it happens today. one exanple is mohd marriage to a 8 yrs old girl. eben in hinduism child marriages happened as a norm and still happens as an exception. it was normal at that time but seems abhorrent now.

 

[illusion8]

There are a few sane voices in Islam as well, not all are against other religions. This lady seems one of the saner ones.

To Indian Muslims -Call Spade a Spade and Awake - YouTube

 

[humanfirst]

Here is the text of the message the Prophet Mohammad sent to the Julanda brothers of oman through the intermediary of his Messengers, 'Amr bin al-'As al-Sahmi and Abu Zaid al-Ansari.

"Peace be upon the one who follows the right path! I call you to Islam. Accept my call, and you shall be unharmed. I am God's Messenger to mankind, and the word shall be carried out upon the miscreants. If, therefore, you recognize Islam, I shall bestow power upon you. But if you refuse to accept Islam, your power shall vanish, my horses shall camp on the expanse of your territory and my prophecy shall prevail in your kingdom."

 

[truthseer]

Very true, as described in "The Spread of Islam" by James Levi Barton.

An exerpt .....

"Until after the flight to Mecca [sic; the author certainly meant to write "Medina" (web editor)], Mohammed endeavored to propagate his new religion by persuasion rather than by force. His was a quiet, persistent search for favorable soil in which to sow the seed. After only eight years at Medina, when success had crowned his armed campaigns, the prophet is reported to have addressed a manifesto to the world inviting all mankind to submit to Islam. Ambassadors were sent to present these messages in person. Tradition declares that this message was as follows, quoting from the one said to have been sent to Emperor Heraclius:

In the name of God, the Merciful, the Compassionate, Mohammed, who is the servant of God and his apostle to Herclius the Emperor of Rome. Peace be on whoever has gone on the straight road. After this I say, verily I call you to Islam. Embrace Islam and God will reward you two-fold. If you turn away from the offer of Islam, then on you be the sins of your people. O people of the Book, come towards a creed that is fit both for us and for you. It is this - worship none but God and not to associate anything with God, and not to call others God. Therefore, O ye people of the Book, if ye refuse, beware. We are Muslims and our religion is Islam."

This would indicate that Mohammed saw a vision of world conquest for his new religion, and so began by asking certain sovereigns to accept him as a prophet Of God, and inviting all the world to the same privilege. From this time onward, the sword played a large part in the dissemination of Islam.

While Mohammed set out to found a new religion, he also established a new political order, different from anything that then was or that had previously existed. Starting with the idea that he wished only to convert his brethren to belief in one God, he overthrew the government of both Medina and Mecca, and, for the tribal rule by which the leading families shared in the conduct of public affairs, he substituted a theocratic monarchy centering in himself - the representative of God on earth.

Missionaries with the sword multiplied their activities, as success crowned their endeavors, to win neighboring tribes. Biographers of saints report that vast numbers were converted by the power of preaching the Gospel of Mohammed, although it is difficult not to believe that, in many instances at least, if reports are true, an army was waiting to strike in case the preacher's eloquence and persuasiveness failed to bring about the desired results. It is impossible to distinguish, in the narrative of the many conquests of Islam during the first century after the death of Mohammed, how much was due to religious zeal and how much to greed and political ambition.

Other methods have been employed by Mohammedans for propagating their faith, such as the purchase or forcible seizure of non-Moslem children in times of plague, famine, war and massacre, or even in times of no special disturbance, and rearing them in the Mohammedan faith. The Janissaries at Constantinople are a case in point. The children of Christians were taken regularly to replenish the ranks of this special body-guard of successive Sultans of Turkey. Another method employed to increase the number of ******* was the plurality of wives and the use of captive women of non-Moslem races as concubines. These two methods of propagation were conspicuously employed, and even to the present time are in use by the Turks."

A book giving no source to it's claims, reproducing no evidence is not fact

one has to understand when reading into past history especially of religious practices , thousands of years, that practices in those days may seem ghastly if it happens today. one exanple is mohd marriage to a 8 yrs old girl. eben in hinduism child marriages happened as a norm and still happens as an exception. it was normal at that time but seems abhorrent now.

The age of 8 is disputed. Regardless, Sahih Hadith confirm she had had her first period by whatever age she was and could marry anyone she chose

And again, topic is Zaid Hamid, we don't want to get banned, do we?

Also, the book reference to is giving examples after Muhammad (PBUH).

 

[shelly]

A book giving no source to it's claims, reproducing no evidence is not fact


The age of 8 is disputed. Regardless, Sahih Hadith confirm she had had her first period by whatever age she was and could marry anyone she chose

And again, topic is Zaid Hamid, we don't want to get banned, do we?

what i am saying is that we have to change with times. its todays world marrying 4 wives is not a nice thing in the name of religion an also blasfemy laws. simliar things about hinduism are there. in those days maybe it was ok. now i feel its not.

Ok on topic.. why is ZH keeping caste system alive by quoting castes. does he believe in caste system?

 

[truthseer]

what i am saying is that we have to change with times. its todays world marrying 4 wives is not a nice thing in the name of religion an also blasfemy laws. simliar things about hinduism are there. in those days maybe it was ok. now i feel its not.

Ok on topic.. why is ZH keeping caste system alive by quoting castes. does he believe in caste system?

Maybe because it's the cornerstone of the religion he's always trying to attack

"Peace be upon the one who follows the right path! I call you to Islam. Accept my call, and you shall be unharmed. I am God's Messenger to mankind, and the word shall be carried out upon the miscreants. If, therefore, you recognize Islam, I shall bestow power upon you. But if you refuse to accept Islam, your power shall vanish, my horses shall camp on the expanse of your territory and my prophecy shall prevail in your kingdom."

Prophecy is not threatening them to invade, it is saying it will happen

 

[shelly]

Maybe because it's the cornerstone of the religion he's always trying to attack


Prophecy is not threatening them to invade, it is saying it will happen

sorry you are wrong.. non-hindus have made it the cornerstone. hindus consider it a social order. has nothing to do with religion.

 

[truthseer]

sorry you are wrong.. non-hindus have made it the cornerstone. hindus consider it a social order. has nothing to do with religion.

Is it not in the Vedas? (Curious, my knowledge about Hinduism isn't perfect, know more than most Pakistanis but still)

 

[Neuro]

Caste discrimination is in India I agreed. Not only hindus , muslims also discriminating dalits have you people knw that? hw many muslims allowing dalits to enter into their home? just go and see in rural areas. Muslims won't marry dalits even though they converted to muslims so don't blame hindus alone.

 

[humanfirst]

Prophecy is not threatening them to invade, it is saying it will happen

But if you refuse to accept Islam, your power shall vanish, my horses shall camp on the expanse of your territory and my prophecy shall prevail in your kingdom.

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakist...-real-enemy-hindu-banya-21.html#ixzz1xBbPD0MU

 

[truthseer]

But if you refuse to accept Islam, your power shall vanish, my horses shall camp on the expanse of your territory and my prophecy shall prevail in your kingdom.

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakist...-real-enemy-hindu-banya-21.html#ixzz1xBbPD0MU

It will prevail but no mention of a specific attack.
But this is getting ridiculous, you won't convert me since I already have heard every argument before from a fundamentalist Christian friend and that didn't work. I won't convert you either so let's just discuss Zaid hamid

To be honest, I'm copy pasting what I wrote to him

Caste discrimination is in India I agreed. Not only hindus , muslims also discriminating dalits have you people knw that? hw many muslims allowing dalits to enter into their home? just go and see in rural areas. Muslims won't marry dalits even though they converted to muslims so don't blame hindus alone.

It's not in Quran though, not sure if it is in Vedas