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Z-10 or T-129 Atak or AH-1Z for the Pakistan Army?

Russian Roots Revealed In China's Z-10

March 07, 2013
Sergei Mikheyev, general designer of the Kamov Design Bureau, has revealed that the Russian helicopter company secretly designed the baseline version of the Z-10 attack helicopter for China in the mid-1990s.

The two-seat helicopter made its public debut at the 2012 Zhuhai air show in China, having undergone extensive testing by the People’s Liberation Army for several years. While an outward resemblance to the AgustaWestland A129 Mangusta was widely discussed, no connection was ever made to Kamov until Mikheyev’s announcement at the Heli-Expo convention here on March 6.

Commenting during a briefing on the Kamov product line, Mikheyev says the decision to reveal the Russian company’s role in the design of the Z-10 followed its unveiling by China at the air show late last year.

Kamov worked on the preliminary design at China’s request in 1995. “Due to understandable reasons this was kept secret, but we made the design and it was accepted by China,” Mikheyev says. The baseline design, which was known internally as Project 941, “was accepted for development,” he adds.

Until now, it was generally believed that the aircraft had been designed in China and that the only real foreign input was in the powerplant.

The Z-10’s development has been highly controversial. Five aircraft were powered by Pratt & Whitney Canada PT6C-67C engines fitted with full authority digital engine controls developed by Hamilton Sundstrand. Following investigations by federal agencies, United Technologies Corp., the parent company of the two firms, was fined $75 million for violating the Arms Export Control Act and making false statements in connection with the illegal export to China of U.S.-origin military software in June 2012.

According to evidence heard in the trial, China has sourced the engines under the pretense of producing a civil medium transport. PW&C provided up to 10 engines for the aircraft. Since then, it has been suggested that Z-10 manufacturer Changhe Aircraft Industries Corporation has had to use a lower-rated indigenously-built engine in the helicopter, forcing it to undertake a significant weight-saving program until a new, more powerful engine becomes available.

Kamov is better known for its co-axial designs such as the Ka-32 transport helicopter and also the Ka-50/52 attack helicopters. The company is producing the Ka-62 utility helicopter.

Russian Roots Revealed In China's Z-10
 
Taking your opinion which attack helicopter is better for Pakistan
in terms of.


  • quality
  • price
  • transfer of technology
  • weapons and armaments

TAI_AW T-129B ATAK

sru3n.jpg


CAIC WZ-10


OPERATIONALarmed+Chinese+Z-10+Attack+Helicopter+gunship+PLA+Peoples+Liberation+Army+Air+Force+export+pakitan+missile+hj10+atgm+rocket+(1).jpg
 
T-129 having better saftey and weaponary with more advanced sencors and incoperating western weaponary and technology is absolutely great if got in Pakistan hand under TOT……:coffee:
 
General characteristics
TAI/AgustaWestland T129
Crew: 2: pilot and co-pilot/gunner
Length: 13.45 m (44 ft 1 in)
Rotor diameter: 11.90 m (39 ft 0 in)
Height: 3.4 m (11 ft 2 in)
Disc area: 111.22 m² (1,197.25 ft²)
Max. takeoff weight: 5,000 kg (11,023 lb)
Powerplant: 2 × LHTEC CTS800-4A turboshaft, 1,014 kW (1,361 shp) each
Rotor systems: 5 blades on main rotor

Performance

Maximum speed: 278 km/h (151 knots, 174 mph)
Cruise speed: 269 km/h (145 knots, 167 mph)
Range: 561 km (303 nmi, 341 mi)
Ferry range: 1,000 km (540 nmi, 620 mi)
Service ceiling: 6,096 m (20,000 ft)
Rate of climb: 14.0 m/s (2,750 ft/min)

Armament

Guns: 1× 20 mm (0.787 in) three-barrel gatling-type cannon (500 rounds)
Rockets: 4 pods with
38× 81 mm (3.19 in) unguided rockets or
76× 70 mm (2.75 in) unguided rockets or
12.7 mm (0.50 in) machine gun pod
Missiles:
8× AGM-114 Hellfire, BGM-71 TOW, Hydra 70, Spike-ER, UMTAS, anti-tank and anti-armor missiles and Sura D/Snora.
12x Roketsan Cirit
2× AIM-92 Stinger or Mistral or AIM-9 Sidewinder anti-aircraft missiles
wz-10
General characteristics

Crew: 2
Length: 14.15 m (ft)
Rotor diameter: 13.0 m[17] (ft)
Height: 3.85 m (ft)
Empty weight: 5,540 kg[17] (lb)
Loaded weight: 7,000 kg (lb)
Useful load: 1,500 kg[17] (lb)
Max. takeoff weight: 7,000+ kg (lb)
Powerplant: 2 × WZ-9 turboshaft[17], 1000 kw (1350 shp) each

Performance

Maximum speed: 300+ km/h[17]
Cruise speed: 270+ km/h[17]
Range: 800+ km[17] ()
Service ceiling: 6,400 m (ft)
Rate of climb: over 12 m/s[17] (ft/min)

Armament

Guns: 23 mm or 30 mm autocannon mounted on chin turret (optional 30 mm or 40 mm automatic grenade launchers, or 14.5 mm Gatling gun)
Hardpoints: 4
Rockets: 57 mm, 90 mm multi-barrel unguided rocket pods
Missiles:
Up to 8 HJ-10 air to surface / anti tank / anti helicopter missiles. ADK10 is reported to be the official name of HJ10 missile.[12]
Up to 8 HJ-8, HJ-9 missiles
Up to 8 TY-90 air-to-air missiles
Up to 4 PL-5, PL-7, PL-9 air-to-air missiles

Avionics

YH millimetre-wave fire-control radar
Helmet mounted sight with night vision goggles
BM/KG300G self protection jamming pod
Blue Sky navigation pod
KZ900 reconnaissance pod
YH-96 electronic warfare suite

T-129 having better saftey and weaponary with more advanced sencors and incoperating western weaponary and technology is absolutely great if got in Pakistan hand under TOT……:coffee:

you are right will western powers allow Turkey to transfer the technology to Pakistan.
on the other side chinese are time tested and provide assistance in jf-17 thunder already.
1 big benefit of Chinese equipments is that u can integrate your own weapons on that
 
I was just about to create that thread. Anyways bro, the picture given is Mangusta, not ATAK, also the specs given is probly from wiki. Our expert @cabatli_53 can provide valuable information about ATAK. Regards
 
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Guys,

Is anybody thinking that PA didn't know strengths and weaknesses of these platforms or went for weaker option because we know better than they do? Celebrate.. its great time for Pakistan and it has came after long.

Now let me put few crazy angles into the equation which might diversify this discussion.

- What if China also wanted PA to acquire T-129? (leaving "why so" part for some imagination)
- What if PA decided to go for stronger foundation (engine, survive-ability etc) and add Chinese layer on top if it was needed?
- What if because of T-129, Pakistan is able to make close connections with Rocketsan and get more potent (or diverse) missles than China is able to offer at this stage?
- What if T-129 deal actually has a deeper purpose that Pakistan could gain leverage on Turk fighter jet program?
- What if Pakistan wants to arm its fleet with few goodies coming from NATO and it needed a platform which is compatible to those already?
- What if multiple of above reasons hold true?

In terms of performance, both might be equal but never overlook the side aspects which are equally important.
 
We should go for WZ-10 ToT with WZ16 turboshafts !!!

Much more reliable platform !!!! :pakistan: :china:
Go for whats best for your country but dont come with the bs of much more reliable platform.
The predecesor of the T-129(A-129 mangusta) is battle proven,when where in what battle was the WZ-10 used?


In Italian service, the Mangusta has successfully deployed with UN missions to the Republic of Macedonia, Somalia and Angola. In Somalia, during the battle called of "Checkpoint Pasta" (because it was near an abandoned pasta factory), an A129 launched a single TOW missile which hit a vehicle carrying Somali insurgents, killing several. It equips the 5th AVES Regiment "Rigel" (based at Casarsa della Delizia, Friuli) and the 7º AVES Rgt. "Vega" (based in Rimini), part of the Friuli Air Assault Brigade. Three helicopters were deployed in Iraq to provide air support for the Italian forces in Nassiriya.

Several A129s have been stationed in Afghanistan, supporting Italian Army forces during combat in the region
 
Go for whats best for your country but dont come with the bs of much more reliable platform.
The predecesor of the T-129(A-129 mangusta) is battle proven,when where in what battle was the WZ-10 used?

Reliable in the sense that US meddling won't be possible not in terms of system reliability. Turkish achievement makes us as happy as Pakistani achievement.
@graphican, akd-10 is as advance as the best atgms out there.
 
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Go for whats best for your country but dont come with the bs of much more reliable platform.
The predecesor of the T-129(A-129 mangusta) is battle proven,when where in what battle was the WZ-10 used?
Brother no need to get cocky. we all know that T-129 is an excellent gunship. I mean WZ-10 is reliable as in sanction-proof !!!!!!
 
Brother no need to get cocky. we all know that T-129 is an excellent gunship. I mean WZ-10 is reliable as in sanction-proof !!!!!!

and which sort of sancations you did feared on T-129??:sick:
 

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