Z-10 or T-129 Atak or AH-1Z for the Pakistan Army?

[Quwa]

I'd rather invest in the South African New Attack Helicopter (NAH) program:

Private aviation group works on own attack-helicopter design

South African aviation and defence company Advanced Technologies and Engineering (ATE) has embarked on conceptual planning for the development of what is to be known as the New Attack Helicopter (NAH), external affairs director Lorris Duncker tells Engineering News.

He states that the design philosophy for the NAH "is to use proven and operational weapons systems and to design an airframe around that, rather than following some existing design phisolophies, which focus predominantly on the airframe, leaving the weapons system development to the last".

It is envisaged that the platform features of the NAH will include a tandem layout; an all-composite airframe with integral infrared suppressors; and an engine, a gearbox and a drivetrain similar to those on the South African-made Rooivalk attack helicopter.

It will also feature a weapons system comprising a turret-mounted 20-mm dual-feed cannon with a range of up to 2 000 m; guided and unguided rockets; canister-protected, and laser beam-riding guided Ingwe missiles on stub-wing outboard stations, boasting a range of 500 m to 5 000 m. The missiles will be capable of penetrating 950 mm rolled homogeneous armour.

The weapons system will also boast chaff and flare countermeasures coupled to the mission electronic warfare system, including missile approach warning, radar warning and laser warning.

The NAH's avionics will include a three-screen glass cockpit for each crew station, a digital map with Doppler/global positioning system hybrid navigation, a communications and electronic warfare suite, an identification-of-friend-or-foe system and a voice/data recorder.

The sighting system will comprise a nose-mounted system, boasting three field-of-view forward-looking infrared and three field-of-view TVs; provision for laser range finding; autotracking, missile guidance and laser designation capabilities; a helmet-mounted sighting system for cannon and sight cueing; and binocular vision displays on the visors of both crew members. Aiming and flight information will be displayed in the field of view.

"The focus of the NAH will be to transfer technology and to create the capability for a new helicopter industry in the country of the prospective customer," says Duncker.

 

[DaRk WaVe]

This thing looks a serious beast & the explanations given by our Turkish member are also Cool

 

[DaRk WaVe]

UMTAS ​

The long-range air-launched anti-tank guided missile (LRAT) envisaged as the main armament for the future T-129 light attack helicopter is met by ROKETSAN.

Fitted with an imaging infrared seeker LRAT has a maximum range of 8 km and will be used by the Turkish ATAK Helicopter against armoured ground targets.

LRAT, as well as the ability to be used by land platforms, has the following characteristics;

* Lock on before or after firing
* Use in day/night and all weather conditions
* Tandem Warhead, effective on reactive armours
* Insensitive munition

CIRIT - 2.75 LASER GUIDED MISSILE​

The 2.75" semi-active laser guided missile, CIRIT, is the highly accurate and cost effective solution for the Turkish Land Forces ATAK helicopter against lightly armoured ground targets. It is compliant to MIL-STD 810 F and MIL-STD 464 A, and is compatible with M and LAU series launchers. It can also be launched by the MIL-STD-1760 interface Smart Launcher, designed by ROKETSAN.

The missile has Insensitive Munition Motor with reduced smoke propellant, Insensitive Munition tri-mode warhead.

 

[DaRk WaVe]

Cockpit ​

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AselFlir 300 - multi-sensor electro-optical targeting and surveillance system​

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Aselsan Avci for T-129 - helmet mounted display​

​

 

[DaRk WaVe]

For the time being my vote goes to T-129 as capability of Z-10 is not fully known for the time being.

But my concerns are the price as it is just equal to any western platform, also not sure about the origin of the engine, will it be 100% made in Turkey or will it be coming from outside of Turkey in full or in some parts imported and some local form. As we are pron to sanctions and this factor may prove problematic for us in case we get sanctioned again. If the engine is 100% Turkish made, will turkey help Pakistan in supplying these parts secretly or not when we get sanctioned is also to be considered. Same goes for the other weapons systems and FCS. What will Turkey do if we get sanctioned.

As in case of China, even we get sanctions we won't have to worry as we will keep getting the spares and weapon systems, which the Chinese did in the past.

its using two CTS800-4N, Variant of LHTEC T-800 engine

The LHTEC T800 is a turboshaft engine for rotary wing applications, and is produced by the LHTEC, a joint venture between Rolls-Royce and Honeywell. The commercial and export version is the CTS800. The engine was primarily developed for the United States Army's RAH-66 Comanche armed reconnaissance helicopter, in the T800-LHT-801 version, but has found use in other applications.

On 22 June 2008, the agreement between TUSAS Aerospace Industries and AgustaWestland formally entered into force. It has now been confirmed that the T129 will be a 100% Turkish built platform. Under the agreement, TAI will develop an indigenous mission computer, avionics, weapons systems, self-protection suites and the helmet-mounting cuing systems. TUSAS Engine Industries Inc (TEI) will manufacture the LHTEC CTS800-4N engines under licence. Under the agreement, Turkey has full marketing and intellectual property rights for the T129 platform. There are also no restrictions imposed on Turkey for the export or transfer of the platform to third countries

The ATAK Helicopter Program first started in October 1996, with the aim of providing the Turkish Land Forces Command with 51 firm and 41 optional Attack/Tactical Reconnaissance helicopters, was cancelled by the Undersecretariat for Defence Industries Executive Committee decision dated 14 May 2004. The ATAK Helicopter Program aims to provide the Turkish Land Forces Command with an Attack/Tactical Reconnaissance helicopter that will be; customized according to user needs, produced and provided with integrated logistics support.

The Undersecretariat for Defence Industries (SSM) published a new Request for Proposal (RFP) on 10 February 2005 and re-opened bidding for the ATAK Helicopter Program. AgustaWestland, Eurocopter, KAMOV and Denel submitted bids in response to the new RFP. The Undersecretariat for Defence Industries Executive Committee announced AgustaWestland as the winning bidder after its meeting on 30 March 2007. Subsequently TAI, SSM, ASELSAN and AgustaWestland stared contract negotiations. The negotiations were finalized on 27 August 2007 and the contract was signed on 7 September 2007.

In the ATAK Helicopter Program, TAI will be the prime contractor, with AgustaWestland and ASELSAN being TAI’s subcontractors. As part of the ATAK Helicopter Program the following agreements were signed:

• TAI-SSM Prime Contract

• TAI-AgustaWestland Major Subcontract Agreement

• TAI-AgustaWestland Collaboration Agreement

• TAI-ASELSAN Subcontract Agreement

As Prime Contractor of the ATAK Program, TAI has work share in the following areas:

• Program and Contract Management

• System Integration

• Production

• Engineering

• Integrated Logistics Support

In collaboration with AgustaWestland, TAI will define the operational and functional requirements specifications of the ATAK Helicopter. As part of this, TAI will be responsible for managing ASELSAN’s workshare, which includes designing the hardware and software (including software integration) of the ATAK Mission Computer and procurement of all mission systems, including weapon systems. TAI is also responsible for harmonizing the program as a whole and managing the agreements reached with its subcontractors.

As part of its System Integration activities, TAI will perform the following activities to form the T-129 ATAK Helicopter configuration based on the existing A-129 CBT Helicopter:

• Integrating the Mission Equipment Package (Avionics and Weapons) on the helicopter to satisfy the System Performance Specifications,

• Achieving the design and production activities required for integrating the software and hardware of the Mission Equipment Package,

• Completing the following Test and Qualification activities aimed at achieving the T-129 ATAK Helicopter configuration:

• Functional Acceptance Tests

• EMI/EMC Tests

• Ground Tests

• Flight Tests

• T-129 ATAK Helicopter Qualification.

In accordance with the work share agreed upon with AgustaWestland, TAI shall carry out final assembly and flight operations, component and sub-assembly production, detail parts and electrical harness fabrication, tool/fixture design and production for parts included in TAI manufacturing workshare, support and test equipment procurement for parts included in TAI manufacturing Workshare and fabrication and assembly of structural/electrical components unique to the ATAK Helicopter. TAI shall also perform the following activities aimed at creating the T-129 ATAK Helicopter from the AgustaWestland Basic Configuration Helicopter;

• Performance and Flight Mechanics Analyses,

• Structural Modification,

• Airworthiness and Qualification,

• Operational, system/sub system and functional definitions of the ASELSAN designed system,

• Electrical and Group-A Kit Modification,

• SIL Acceptance Tests, ground, flight and EMI/EMC Tests,

TAI shall also commit to the final design and performance of the helicopter to SSM. TAI shall also provide active participation to the engine replacement, Automatic Flight Control System and Air Vehicle Management System modification activities taking place at AgustaWestland facilities.

As prime contractor of the ATAK Program, TAI shall perform the following activities as part of Integrated Logistics Support:

• Prepare the T-129 ATAK Helicopter ILS Data Package by utilizing the ILS Data Package modules (maintenance and pilot handbooks etc.) received from AgustaWestland and ASELSAN,

• Perform Logistics Support Analysis as an extension of TAI design activities,

• Train T-129 ATAK Helicopter Pilot and Maintenance Personnel,

• Manage and coordinate the Warranty, Support Equipment and Spare Parts of the T-129 ATAK and Basic Configuration Helicopters,

• Provide Technical Support through Field Services Representatives based at 4 different TLF bases for a duration of 3 years,

• Conduct Codification activities aimed at obtaining NATO Stock Numbers (NSN) for the components and equipment of the T-129 ATAK and Basic Configuration Helicopters.

The planned duration of the ATAK Program is 114 months from Contract Effectivity with T-129 ATAK Helicopter qualification planned for 58 months and delivery of the first serial production helicopter planned for 60 months after Contract Effectivity. Delivery of the first 7 helicopters to the customer will be once every two months, with the remaining helicopters being delivered once a month, with the last ATAK Helicopter being delivered to the customer at 114 months from Contract Effectivity.

With the Collaboration Agreement signed with AgustaWestland, TAI shall have;

• Intellectual property rights of the new configuration of the helicopter
  
• Sole sourcing rights in the world for the fuselage, including Final Assembly and Flight Operations
  
• Sales rights for the whole world excluding Italy and England

TURKISH AEROSPACE INDUSTRIES INC.

 

[cabatli_53]

T-129 Atak MFD interfaces...

Engine Parameters

Flight Parameters

Weapon Parameters

 

[cabatli_53]

This video introduces many of capabilities of T-129 Atak. If you check the beggining of video, You are going to see a Tiha Block-A detecting some enemy targets moving on road, Then, Tiha sends all those datas for T-129 Atak... Atak's are taking off and escorting the utility helicopters, While hunting related targets...

 

[cabatli_53]

ATLAS Avionics Moving Map Software, Ayesas T-129 Atak

AYESAŞ developed DO-178B certifiable Atlas Avionics Moving Map and DO-200A compliant Map Preparation Software for fixed wing and rotary wing aircrafts. The moving map architecture is designed to be fully extensible for:

* Raster Image Support (VFR, IFR, Approach Charts, Topographic Maps, Aerial Imagery etc)
* ARINC 424 Navigation Layer
* Geographic Layers (Vectoral and Terrain)
* Flight Plan Support
* 2D / 3D Rendering
* Slope Shading
* Line of Sight (LOS) capability
* Vertical Profile Display
* 3D TAWS Rendering

AYESAŞ’s DO-178B certifiable Atlas Avionics Moving Map software product supplies the flying platforms with a digital video interface for keeping the own position in sight. With the Moving Map functionality, the crew has increased situational awareness and safety of flight that cannot be achieved with a standard cockpit instrument set.

 

[cabatli_53]

Radar Absorbing Materials and Paints... T-129 Atak

Those materials have managed to decrease the radar cross sections of targets up to 1/1000 in radar secreen...

 

[cabatli_53]

Turkey should design a commercial helicopter with the detection tech. It is going to be a hit with businessmen and politicians across the globe. Excellent idea for congested cities.

I am proud of our Turkish brothers.

Thanks brother.. We are proud of Pakistani brothers as well...

TAI has a program to develop a light weight commercial helicopter with Istanbul Technical University. The development process are carried out by both TAI and ITU engineers now a days and The prototypes will start flying in 2010.

 

[cabatli_53]

Another indigenous utility helicopter development program of TAI is for military purposes called OGMH. She will have a weight about 3000-4500 kg.

First design pictures of this helicopter... TAI

 

[Babur Han]

I'm glad to see both indigenous Helicopters flying, the ITU light Helicopter should make the first Flight next Year. The ITU light Helicoopter seems to me capable for using as light Attack/Scout and Training Helicopter.

For the Future I hope Pakistan and Turkey cooperate together in Development of Helicopters !

 

[BATMAN]

Technically, T-129 is quite mature and quality platform.
If decided on merit it can win any vote.

 

[emotionless_teenage]

unless pakistan has good amount of confidence with Z-10 i think it is wiser to opt for a more mature programme

 

[Arsalan]

well for me what is best is a combination of both these systems.
a squadron or two of T129s will add to the fear factor being of westren origin and also will help to gain major technological advantage whereas additional three or four squadron of Z10 would not only fill in numbers but will be more then a match for other systems operating in ouir neighbourhood.

this is what i think about these two system and this is what i hope it turns out to be....

regards!