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Youths protest against democracy

Are you sure you are talking about democracy? It is only in dictatorships and kingdoms like Saudi where the rich and powerful make rules. In democracies like US, even the smallest changes are decided based on public voting. Bailing out the banks was an economic decision and we cannot discuss it without knowing the technicalities. With all the problems an average westerner would lead a better life than some one under islamic law.

I agree that islam was once a lot tolerant and gave room for debates and changes when Europe was in the dark ages. But it is not true today.

Jayron, you are getting confused with Islam and Muslims, like Hindus, and Christians and many others, people don;t all follow their scriptures and as such Islam cannot also go on trial for the ills of others. Give any Muslim Country a vote, any about what kind of system they would like, even recently in the US this debate was raised whereby many Muslim countries would vite for an Islamic Shariah system hands down.......

You are not the judge of saying a Westerner would live a better life here or under that system, you obviously have little or no knowledge of Islamic history so please don;t judge islam based on your knowledge........
 
The islamic system had been running for over a Millenia so critics can keep their own views to themselves, yes they have a difference in opinion, but their so called Democracies are no fool proof, and by the way, even if someone is voted into power, .......does it really mean that the majority wins, even though the losing party may also be in millions, WTF kind of way of life is that......."the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few"

As expected from someone that doesn't understand a democratic system. That must be why republicans hold a majority in the house while the president is a democrat.(people who did not vote in the majority still have representation in the government) Are you saying the needs of the few should outweigh the needs of the many ?
 
Right because the democracy in the 4th century B.C. is Democracy now. That is the beauty of systems that are adaptive and changing they are not stuck in the 6th century.

Jigs, islam too is adaptive, as Shariah can also be frozen when required to do so, and the Muslims fail to understand that the Quran and hadith do not have all the answers and as such the Sahabah and Fatwas given over the passage of time should also be followed, this is the way Islam has worked over the Millenia and this is mainly where the West derived its Statute from in the first place, for example,

Say for arguments sake you are allowed to drive a car at 70 mph on the motorway. You will not find any info in relation to this sort of thing in the scriptures, however a fatwa is issued by the appropriate authority (abit like an Act of Parliament) and as such the fatwa becaomes what we today call Law........20 years on, cars have become more sophisticated and a better breaking mechanism and this allows the speed to be amended, the Fatwa is then amended appropriately to 100 mph, the original fatwa lays recorded but rescinded and the amended one takes effect.....

Shariah is changing with the passage of time with the changes that take place with this time........this is a misunderstanding of many people about Shariah

---------- Post added at 09:50 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:49 PM ----------

As expected form someone that doesn't understand a democratic system. That must be why republicans hold a majority in the house while the president is a democrat. Are you saying the needs of the few should outweigh the needs of the many ?

No, I am asking, if you will allow me, what about the needs of the few, what happens to them............
 
Democracy or Sharia or communism or any god damn thing this planet has to offer which could solve our issues and make us a prosper country . Our youth get jobs , Our industries get business friendly environment , our minorities get full rights , my poor improve their situation , where no dictator comes again , where no CIA could kill our citizens and pull their middle finger in our face , where no Asia bibi can be prosecuted for saying something in anger , where no policeman abuses his power and take law in his own hands.

Where no General musharraf could sack Chief justice , where no police could take bribes , where no one could avoid legitimate taxes , where no one could have slave labors , where no one can smuggle drugs and run brothels , where no one can turn my kids into beggars , where women stand shoulder to shoulder with men , where justice is delivered at door step , where no one's mouth is sewed !!!!

This is my Pakistan ---- and i don't give a damn what system could bring it -- i just want to see it happening !

besides islamic system has solution to all problems,1 shud know that it is farz to live according to islamic laws,may it b edu,social,juridicial,economic,foreign policy..that is y no to all other man made ideologies..which cause trouble only!
 
Jayron, you are getting confused with Islam and Muslims, like Hindus, and Christians and many others, people don;t all follow their scriptures and as such Islam cannot also go on trial for the ills of others. Give any Muslim Country a vote, any about what kind of system they would like, even recently in the US this debate was raised whereby many Muslim countries would vite for an Islamic Shariah system hands down.......

You are not the judge of saying a Westerner would live a better life here or under that system, you obviously have little or no knowledge of Islamic history so please don;t judge islam based on your knowledge........

Muslims go to non islamic , western countries for a better life. What is there to judge in this?
 
Jigs, islam too is adaptive, as Shariah can also be frozen when required to do so, and the Muslims fail to understand that the Quran and hadith do not have all the answers and as such the Sahabah and Fatwas given over the passage of time should also be followed, this is the way Islam has worked over the Millenia and this is mainly where the West derived its Statute from in the first place, for example,

Say for arguments sake you are allowed to drive a car at 70 mph on the motorway. You will not find any info in relation to this sort of thing in the scriptures, however a fatwa is issued by the appropriate authority (abit like an Act of Parliament) and as such the fatwa becaomes what we today call Law........20 years on, cars have become more sophisticated and a better breaking mechanism and this allows the speed to be amended, the Fatwa is then amended appropriately to 100 mph, the original fatwa lays recorded but rescinded and the amended one takes effect.....

Shariah is changing with the passage of time with the changes that take place with this time........this is a misunderstanding of many people about Shariah

Well your example is a no brainier since there were no cars in the 6th century and they are now the main transportation for humans that is simply forced adaptation to technology. However the fundamental issues are still 6th century as they are unchangeable are they not ? Example would be punishments and also gender rights. Above all the system is also based on religious ideology which is a faith based viewpoint and minority rights in turn not represented equally. We also need to look at this in reality i think that is very important. I keep hearing a lot of "this or that isn't really sharia law or the right way to apply it" To me it very clearly looks like every country that has applied the system(in some form or another with different levels) has in turn been very unsuccessful. Remember the Ottoman empire(said by mainly islamists to have the only workable system) tried to reform heavily but most of this failed both because the religious backing for them was not there and there was also the Janissary revolts so by the time WW1 rolled in the empire economically,militarily and politically was far behind that of European systems and of course horrible woman's rights and a 80% illiteracy rate overall did not help along with outright corruption and the formation of classes almost akin to the caste system. Since this no other country has been successful without adopting a western system of governance. Even the communist systems had to adept to the changing times look at China as a prime example in western economical reforming.






No, I am asking, if you will allow me, what about the needs of the few, what happens to them............

Read the post they are represented still.
 
Muslims go to non islamic , western countries for a better life. What is there to judge in this?

hahahaha, thats the same logic as the fastest growing religion in the world, especially in the West is Islam, and 70% of those reverting/converting are women..........

If that is what you base your logic on, then I leave you to it........
 
hahahaha, thats the same logic as the fastest growing religion in the world, especially in the West is Islam, and 70% of those reverting/converting are women..........

If that is what you base your logic on, then I leave you to it........

How is that related to my post? You said I cannot judge who's life is better. I am asking you why muslims leave the system which they love so much and go to a non islamic country? It is for a better life right?
 
Well your example is a no brainier since there were no cars in the 6th century and they are now the main transportation for humans that is simply forced adaptation to technology. However the fundamental issues are still 6th century as they are unchangeable are they not ? Example would be punishments and also gender rights. Above all the system is also based on religious ideology which is a faith based viewpoint and minority rights in turn not represented equally. We also need to look at this in reality i think that is very important. I keep hearing a lot of "this or that isn't really sharia law or the right way to apply it" To me it very clearly looks like every country that has applied the system(in some form or another with different levels) has in turn been very unsuccessful. Remember the Ottoman empire(said by mainly islamists to have the only workable system) tried to reform heavily but most of this failed both because the religious backing for them was not there and there was also the Janissary revolts so by the time WW1 rolled in the empire economically,militarily and politically was far behind that of European systems and of course horrible woman's rights and a 80% illiteracy rate overall did not help along with outright corruption and the formation of classes almost akin to the caste system. Since this no other country has been successful without adopting a western system of governance. Even the communist systems had to adept to the changing times look at China has a prime example in western economical reforming.

Firstly, please leave little childish comment about "no brainier" to yourself, if you want to discuss something lets be reasonable, I could see this as nothing more then another Democratic style living rudeness, abundent in you way of life.....so lets not go there.....

Yes, many things, like punishment for death if death, that is not different then your championof Democracy the USA, then why the double standards....

There are many rights for minorities and they are fully protected, if that was not the case, then many living descendents of Coptic Christians and Jews, and others alike would not be alive today in the Middle East and elsewhere, they would have been long dead......Yes there are differences in the fact that they cannot take part in the Shariah processing and fatwa deliverence in order to maintain the status quo of the ultimate Statute being Shariah and no chance of foul play being used.

You may wish to use the "Jizya" which many critics of Islam like using, yes it is there however, unlike the Muslims, the Jizya is for non-Muslims and far less then the Zakat that Muslims have to pay also......so that is out of the window....

Women have rights in Islam and this thread does not have the time or space to go through it, but in short, they can work, educate and go out, however Islam does not allow pornography or females dressing in a way which would naturally attract the oppposite sex, as is human instinct, and cause or bring unwelcome behaviour towards her.

Every year, in the US approximately 132,000 women report that they have been victims of rape or attempted rape, and more than half of them knew their attackers. It's estimated that two to six times that many women are raped, but do not report it. Every year 1.2 million women are forcibly raped by their current or former male partners, some more than once.

This is what the Democratic system also brings with it......

Along with

Each year 100,000 women seek treatment in London for violent injuries caused in their homes in 1989

Quite a few women were raped just whilst I was writing this on this forum........

MORE TO COME
 
How is that related to my post? You said I cannot judge who's life is better. I am asking you why muslims leave the system which they love so much and go to a non islamic country? It is for a better life right?

My answer was within the post........nonetheless, i will explain it more clearly.....You cannot base your logic on a few people going to the West to seek a "better life" because there is no so called Muslim Country which currently has Islamic Shariah under a Khilafah......

That is why I used the logic of saying islam is better because of the number of converts.......it is not the right way to answer
 
Jigs, following on from post #88, yes, by the end of the Ottomon Empire, at the dying stages of any Empire, panic, chaos and anarchy takes effect and in any dying Empire, the cause of its demise is the ills that have penetrated its system for decades which tends to grow, as was the case during the last decades of the Empire, they was utter chaos, there was no longer an effective Islamic system in place........dont blame Islam for that, it is the people who caused this chaos and its rulers, the Islamic system, when adopted had worked magnificently over the centuries........

I agree with all the other points about illiteracy and caste systems, and as such you too need to agree that this is not part of Islam, it is nothing to do with Islam....the Prophet PBUH in his very last sermon made that clear with no white being superior to a non white and no non white superior to a white just as such as no Arab being superior to a non Arab and vis versa.......please dont put blame where it is not due
 
No brother! Jana is right. I have also seen those Hizb-ul-Tehrir pamphlets in detail that they often hand over after jumma prayers. My brother has brought them many times. Wait till i get them one more time.

They are surely misleading you. Everytime they ask to rebel against the current Govt with the help of military coup.

wel its stretigy,to establish islam with power other wise any one cud kill the 1 who declares islamic state,with help of their private agencies,or even army...ager ye foaj amrica k liyae muslmano say lr skti hai to,islam k liyae nusra i.e protection kiyu nahi day skti???
ALLAH ki rah me mr k km az km shaheed to ho gey,amrica ki rah me mr k kon c rah-hay-rast dhoond rahay hain,n dont w8 4 friday...visit

[URL="http://khilafah.com"]http://khilafah.com
 
wel its stretigy,to establish islam with power other wise any one cud kill the 1 who declares islamic state,with help of their private agencies,or even army...ager ye foaj amrica k liyae muslmano say lr skti hai to,islam k liyae nusra i.e protection kiyu nahi day skti???
ALLAH ki rah me mr k km az km shaheed to ho gey,amrica ki rah me mr k kon c rah-hay-rast dhoond rahay hain,n dont w8 4 friday...visit

[URL="http://khilafah.com"]http://khilafah.com

No my friend,

This is the true face of HuT and the like, and please read the comments of the British public on the Youtube page......hatred grows towards us because of people like these

 
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