Yom Kippur War 1973: The Egyptian Revenge

[PteX]

look it says this


Sonuç İsrail'in taktiksel zaferi
İsrail ve Mısır'ın politik ve stratejik zaferi
Arap devletlerinin petrol ambargosu

so it says Result = israil tactical victory

israel and egypt political and strategic victory

and arab embargo thats what it says

Yeah, and? The topic here is Military. Military victory is Tactical victory. The Egyptians considered it a victory for not being completely destroyed and only partially destroyed. Israel won militarily and the Arabs gloated about their little diplomatic victory slogan, thus the peace agreement was signed.

 

[KingMamba]

Ah, a fellow enthusiast of the 1973 war?

You are right. Sadat was pressurized by the Syrians. My reading suggests that by then the Syrian thrust in the Golan had petered out and the Israelis were responding after being in the defensive for days. Syria was under a lot of pressure.

The reason that Egypt's later attacks petered out was that their tanks were charging into prepared Israeli positions without air or SAM cover which made them sitting ducks. In short, they had abandoned the strategy that was winning them the war. Instead of waiting for the Israelis to come to them, they attacked and paid the price.

Regardless of the immediate result, 1973 is regarded by many military strategists as a war that both Israelis and Egypt won. But that's another story.

He may not be an enthusiast but I on the other hand am. Here is some reads that may come as a shock but it definitively worth looking into. This was written by an Israeli, also I have found many such articles about this online and also read the declassified documents which I can't seem to find right now. Enjoy and reflect.

http://www.counterpunch.org/2012/02/22/what-really-happened-in-the-yom-kippur-war/

Yeah, and? The topic here is Military. Military victory is Tactical victory. The Egyptians considered it a victory for not being completely destroyed and only partially destroyed. Israel won militarily and the Arabs gloated about their little diplomatic victory slogan, thus the peace agreement was signed.

PteX didn't I already discuss with you what happened in another thread to which you had no answer?

 

[KingMamba]

Sadat's decision to accept a ceasefire was his, and his alone. Even Egyptian GHQ did not know, and wasn't consulted.

The reason he gave was that the Egyptians had totally underestimated America's commitment to Israel. The scale of the U.S resupply to Israel had astounded them. In his estimation, for the last ten days of the war, Egypt had been fighting the U.S. In his view, to continue the war would have bought Egypt into direct conflict with the U.S., and this would have been a disaster for them.

Yes agreed, many sources on this subject indicate that this was Sadat's reasoning. Following the initial gains the Israelis were in trouble and told the US that they were willing to go nuclear unless they were resupplied. This directly led to the re-arming of Israeli forces which then mounted their counter attack which pushed the Arabs back. From the US point of view they had little choice to rearming the Israelis or face nuclear retaliation from the Soviets who were backing Egypt and Syria.

Israel's Nuclear Weapons

scroll down to 1963-1973 you can find other sources if you look as well.

You have misunderstood what I wrote.

In any case I will elucidate- It is claimed that 1973 was not a one to one battle because the Israelis outgunned the Egyptians through overwhelming support.

I am against that position, for the reasons I described- because the Egyptians and Syrians were fighting one enemy. Because they also had other nations behind them. Because they were also supported by Soviet arms. Because they attacked first.

So to the extent it was ' not a one to one battle' it was the Israelis who were with the disadvantage of fighting larger numbers rather than the other way round.

It can argued that the Israelis were just cocky which is why they were surprised. It is said that they had an agent inside Egypt who told them about the impending war but was off by the hour at which it would start. Israelis never considered Arabs any sort of threat which is why they were overwhelmed. This also plays into the reasons as to why they were willing to compromise in 1979 as they finally respected Egypt military capabilities and decided peace meant more to them than the Sinai.

Facinating thread

Jordanians King lol flew in to inform Israel talk about a sincere friend

Yes however Golda Meir disregarded the Arabs as being not a threat.

Sadat's decision to attack out of the Egyptian enclave carved out along the east bank was politically-driven by Syrian pleas for assistance to pressure the Israelis.

The Syrians, with great bravery and less skill, were smashed by elements of two Israeli armor-heavy brigades who stood toe-to-toe with the Syrian and duked it out in day-night combat that was unceasing in its ferocity.

It was a ballsy fight with no quarter given or taken on the Golan. Unmatched by either Kursk or DESERT STORM because the Israelis certainly lost the best parts of both brigades but gave back even more. The relatively short frontage created huge numbers of modern MBTs fighting one another but the Syrians ended up stacked upon one another and simply couldn't penetrate into the valley behind the Israeli tankers. There was no room for Israeli retreat. It was DIP (defend in place) or more euphemistically known as die-in-place. And so they fought...and died but bought time for Israeli reserve divisions to slowly muster, come forth and eventually counterattack into Syria.

Whether you hate the Israelis or otherwise, it was an epic defense of the highest order against incredible odds on the Golan. In the Sinai, a different story where the IDF, both ground and air initially fought without heed to the development of Soviet anti-tank and SAM capabilities.

Had Israel better understood or appreciated the ATGW threat, they possessed the means to neutralize such. Their artillery was quite capable but underutilized. Both HE and WP/HC smoke would have served them well but their battle-plan didn't fully integrate these fires as they should have been.

Neither did they use artillery in SEAD (suppression of enemy air defense) well. SAM-2 and SAM-3 sites were invulnerable to this type of attack by virtue of their distance from the front but, certainly, both AAA (ZSU-23-4 Shilka and ZSU-57-2) and mobile SAM (SA-7 GRAIL SA-6 GAINFUL) were vulnerable to artillery fires.

It didn't have to go as it did in the Sinai. It couldn't have gone any other way in the Golan.

Thanks.

Agreed with most points, especially the part about Israeli bravado. This account which you can find in Wikipedia impressed me the most.

"Captain Zvika Greengold, who had just arrived unattached to any unit, fought running battles with Syrian armor for 20 hours, sometimes with his single tank and other times as part of a larger unit, changing tanks half a dozen times as they were knocked out. Greengold suffered burn injuries, but stayed in action and repeatedly showed up at critical moments from an unexpected direction to change the course of a skirmish.[194] For his actions, he received Israel's highest decoration, the Medal of Valor."

Yom Kippur War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Ottoman-Turk]

did egypt get back suez canal?

Yeah, and? The topic here is Military. Military victory is Tactical victory. The Egyptians considered it a victory for not being completely destroyed and only partially destroyed. Israel won militarily and the Arabs gloated about their little diplomatic victory slogan, thus the peace agreement was signed.

they did so that is victory aswell

 

[500]

did egypt get back suez canal?

Not in the war.

a joke ? your defence minster said before the war that egypt needs the entire combat engineers from the sovit union and the us to pass it

Barlev line was basically a sand rampart + 450 soldiers in bunkers. Thats al. It was not Maginot nowhere even close to it.

 

[Mahmoud_EGY]

Yeah, and? The topic here is Military. Military victory is Tactical victory. The Egyptians considered it a victory for not being completely destroyed and only partially destroyed. Israel won militarily and the Arabs gloated about their little diplomatic victory slogan, thus the peace agreement was signed.

can we discuss the egyptian front only it was a military and political victory

Barlev line was basically a sand rampart + 450 soldiers in bunkers. Thats al. It was not Maginot nowhere even close to it.

general saad el shazly described in his book what was the bar leiv line read it

 

[PteX]

He may not be an enthusiast but I on the other hand am. Here is some reads that may come as a shock but it definitively worth looking into. This was written by an Israeli, also I have found many such articles about this online and also read the declassified documents which I can't seem to find right now. Enjoy and reflect.

What Really Happened in the



PteX didn't I already discuss with you what happened in another thread to which you had no answer?

I apologize but i don't know who you are... Did we communicate before?

 

[Arabian Legend]

if the Zionists were not backed by the US Palestine would have been a part of Egypt today.

 

[The SC]

what revenge?after initial success they were ultimately beaten to hell.

Read this and see how Israel took the beating of its life:

1973 Arab-Israeli conflict: The Truth once and for all

 

[The SC]

^^I don't think so.In those days USSR was around and America couldn't just attack anyone like these days.

They too were helping Usrael covertly. Egyptians have found out (with proofs) that Russians were giving their air force codes to the Usraelis. They have sustained many mysterious losses to that fact and decided to change the codes without soviet knowledge. And the Egyptian losses went down dramatically.

 

[The SC]

The War started on October 6.

By October 10, the Egyptians had halted in Sinai and Syrian attack in Golan was defeated and Syrians were back at their starting position.

American Aid to Israel only arrived on October 14 and was not absorbed by the Israeli Military for several days later.

Egypt launched its disastrous attack on Sinai passes on October 14 which was totally defeated to support the Syrians. Soviet Union supplied 60,000 tons of supplies to Syria and Egypt while Israelis got 20,000 tons of supplies.

So what this means, Israel defeated the Syrians on its own without outside help and Egyptians were defeated due to their own stupidity of launching an attack outside their SAM cover.

The American Aid allowed the Israels to expend what they have more freely and thus enabled them to launch the counter-attack on the Egyptian 3rd Army.

The Soviets heavily supplied the Syrians and they halted the Israelis.

So in conclusion, the Egyptians and Syrians fought well and had a good plan but they should have realized that the Syrians would bear the brunt of the fighting and the Syrians should have had more troops, tanks, weapons initially to hold back the Israeli counter-attack.

The real story is something else. The American supplies started on the 5th day of the war unofficially.
How can one believe such a distorted statement that Egyptians went to help the Syrians, they were not on the same battle field. To put pressure on Usrael? that is non-sense, since they knew how many reservists Usrael had for both fronts.
And like you say the Syrians halted the Usraeli advances, they could have done it earlier, but that was not part of the plan.
The Plan was to give Usrael the lesson of its existence in warfare against the Arabs and erase its myth of superiority.
This was a due to all the Arabs, since Egypt in 1967 was the most powerfull nation in the middle east with a top notch air force of more than 400 fighter aircrafts (Yes, in those days). It was attacked without provocation, and most of its air force was lost to a 150+ jet attackers at the same time, then the Egyptian army was more or less decimated in the Sinai.
In between this "War" and the 1973 war there was another war, very seldom talked about, where the Egyptians with very few warplanes teached many lessons to the Usraelis.
You can watch the following documentary as a testimony to that preparatory war to the 1973 confrontation. It is called Wings of fury.

 

[500]

The real story is something else. The American supplies started on the 5th day of the war unofficially.

Who told u that? Same guys who told u that Israel nuked Syria I bet?

And like you say the Syrians halted the Usraeli advances, they could have done it earlier, but that was not part of the plan.

Yes, Syrian plan was losing tens billions and many thousands of troops without achieving anything at all. Genius plan. And by the way Israelis were halted by Iraqis and Jordanians, not Syrians.

Egypt in 1967 was the most powerfull nation in the middle east with a top notch air force of more than 400 fighter aircrafts (Yes, in those days). It was attacked without provocation

How could Israel attack Egypt, if there were UN forces in between? Oh wait, Egypt ordered the UN forces to leave just before the 1967 war.

In between this "War" and the 1973 war there was another war, very seldom talked about, where the Egyptians with very few warplanes teached many lessons to the Usraelis.

Israeli Air-to-Air Victories in 1973 - www.acig.org

Tell us more abut the magnificent Qaher-313.

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

In the 1973 war Egyptian infantry units performed very well ,as did the SAM units of both egypt and syria.Both airforces and armor units were badly outclassed by israeli pilots and tank gunners.Even syrian infantry was subpar compared to egyptians.
2000 syrian tanks lost to less than 200 israeli ones.That tells u something.

 

[The SC]

Who told u that? Same guys who told u that Israel nuked Syria I bet?


Yes, Syrian plan was losing tens billions and many thousands of troops without achieving anything at all. Genius plan. And by the way Israelis were halted by Iraqis and Jordanians, not Syrians.


How could Israel attack Egypt, if there were UN forces in between? Oh wait, Egypt ordered the UN forces to leave just before the 1967 war.


Israeli Air-to-Air Victories in 1973 - www.acig.org

Tell us more abut the magnificent Qaher-313.

- Sorry for the mistake, they have started the supplies on the first day, due to the security pact with the US! The russians too have supplied Usrael with some 80 airplanes and the communication codes of the Egyptian airforce.

- The Iraqis couldn't reach the Golan in time, so this is another of your fabricated lies. The Syrians have destroyed more of your aircrafts in the Golan than the Egyptians in the Sinai, and you know very well that were huge numbers. And how come they halted at 15 km from the bridges to allow your reserves to cross, for a fight.

- It was an air attack, what are you trying to lie about again.

- Every sane person knows that was an American victory ( the same as the deal to allow Sharon forces to cross the canal),not yours. Sadat himself said that he couldn't fight the US, and that Usrael was like a shewing gum for the Egyptian armed forces.
Usrael was dead in the first 6 hours of the 1973 war, without the US immediate morale and military support, it would have been buried in the first 24 hours of the war.
You will see the Qaher-313 that made you sick in time, when the Iranians will want it to be shown again.

 

[500]

- Sorry for the mistake, they have started the supplies on the first day, due to the security pact with the US!

Google "operation Nickle Grass". The first transport landed in Israel in the evening of 14th October.

The russians too have supplied Usrael with some 80 airplanes and the communication codes of the Egyptian airforce.

Pure comedy. Your conspiracy theories getting dumber and dumber from day to day.

- The Iraqis couldn't reach the Golan in time, so this is another of your fabricated lies.

Iraqi divisions arrived in Syria between 10-11 Oct. On 12th Oct 3rd Iraqi division attacked 210th Israeli division, halting its offensive.

The Syrians have destroyed more of your aircrafts in the Golan than the Egyptians in the Sinai

Thats not true, Egyptians destroyed more.

and you know very well that were huge numbers. And how come they halted at 15 km from the bridges to allow your reserves to cross, for a fight.

Either another of ur BS stories or Assad is a Mossad agent.

- It was an air attack, what are you trying to lie about again.

How possible to capture Sinai with air attack?

You will see the Qaher-313 that made you sick in time, when the Iranians will want it to be shown again.