Y-20 heavy transport aircraft News & Discussions

[jhungary]

Besides engine issue, China aircraft design, airframe struture is as good as american. American has been using 20 yrs old Chinese data to assess Chinese aviation technology.

Using our own domestic 80,000 tons forge presser, the parts we produce for Y-20 is far superior than C-17. Also Chinese own the largest 3D printer and still held the record for largest parts produce by 3D printer and all these parts find their way into our recent jet of J-20,J-31 and Y-20. 3D print parts do not require welding, so it will be stronger and lighter. Waste usage will be far lower than traditional method.

3D printing technology used in Chinese fighter jets

Do you know why Chinese Giant Commercial Airlines uses Boeing/Airbus Jet instead of Chinese own Comac Jet??

And do you know how a single aspect -The Engine- Overshadowed all other technical aspect in term of Civil Aviation??

China Southern Airlines - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
China Eastern Airlines - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Air China - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You do know why CFM-56 engine on both Boeing and Airbus are considered the BEST CIVILIAN AIRCRAFT ENGINE of all time, with 1 inflight shutdown every 333,000 operation hours and have been sold in then of thousand world wide.

And how do you plan on substantiate your claim of

the parts we produce for Y-20 is far superior than C-17

Have you ever saw a single C-17 or have you visited the Assemble line from Boeing??

 

[Beast]

Do you know why Chinese Giant Commercial Airlines uses Boeing/Airbus Jet instead of Chinese own Comac Jet??

And do you know how a single aspect -The Engine- Overshadowed all other technical aspect in term of Civil Aviation??

China Southern Airlines - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
China Eastern Airlines - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Air China - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You do know why CFM-56 engine on both Boeing and Airbus are considered the BEST CIVILIAN AIRCRAFT ENGINE of all time, with 1 inflight shutdown every 333,000 operation hours and have been sold in then of thousand world wide.

You are talking nonsense. Our C919 will only debut in 2016 and here you are talking abt our airline not using our own domestic aircraft... See how you try to twist the words. Failed.

C919 has not debut but has already secured many orders..
China's Aviation ABCs: Airbus, Boeing, and COMAC - Forbes

I think I do not need to say more.

 

[jhungary]

You are talking nonsense. Our C919 will only debut in 2016 and here you are talking abt our airline not using our own domestic aircraft... See how you try to twist the words. Failed.

C919 has not debut but has already secured many orders..
China's Aviation ABCs: Airbus, Boeing, and COMAC - Forbes

I think I do not need to say more.

1.) I NEVER SAY ANYTHING ABOUT C919. Comac does not only make c919 (Which was not even made yet as you said) I intentionally leave out C919 as they are not yet in service. I am talking about ARJ21.

Comac ARJ21 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

2.) Even with C919, there are only 60 order from the 3 Giant of Chinese Aviation. Where the combine fleet is more than 1000 aircrafts. You sure your puny 60 aircraft order from the 3 Giant is on the same scale of The A and the B? Which make up of 940 of the nearly 1000 fleet........

Everyone in the aviation field knows this as a "Token" purchase, you think after C919 in service, the 3 giants will gave up all their Boeing and Airbus Fleet??

Not to mention of all the airline in China, NONE of them solely operate Chinese aircraft is saying something there.

Come back to me when your Chinese engine have a record of fail ONCE EVER 333,000 Operation hours. Do I need to say more?

 

[Genesis]

1.) I NEVER SAY ANYTHING ABOUT C919. Comac does not only make c919 (Which was not even made yet as you said) I intentionally leave out C919 as they are not yet in service. I am talking about ARJ21.

Comac ARJ21 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

2.) Even with C919, there are only 60 order from the 3 Giant of Chinese Aviation. Where the combine fleet is more than 1000 aircrafts. You sure your puny 60 aircraft order from the 3 Giant is on the same scale of The A and the B? Which make up of 940 of the nearly 1000 fleet........

Everyone in the aviation field knows this as a "Token" purchase, you think after C919 in service, the 3 giants will gave up all their Boeing and Airbus Fleet??

Not to mention of all the airline in China, NONE of them solely operate Chinese aircraft is saying something there.

Come back to me when your Chinese engine have a record of fail ONCE EVER 333,000 Operation hours. Do I need to say more?

Token purchase? Maybe, we all need our starts, you won't call Walmart's one store at the beginning or Hilton hotel's one motel insignificant would you?

As you said we have massive need for planes, and with the new initiatives, starting with our first lady using domestic luxury brands, and it will continue with the replacement of official car fleet of Audi and what not with our domestic cars.

Do we at this point need to be as good? Not really, we aren't competing "fairly" if you must, we can overlook somethings just for the fact that we are all Chinese.

What you need to remember is we are China, not Japan, not Britan, we have MASSIVE resources even at our weakest points. Our margin for error is far greater and our potential for greatness is also far better.

Michael jordan on a bad day is still better than some scrub, maybe once in a long while the scrub can do better in ONE game, but in the end MJ is MJ.

 

[jhungary]

Token purchase? Maybe, we all need our starts, you won't call Walmart's one store at the beginning or Hilton hotel's one motel insignificant would you?

As you said we have massive need for planes, and with the new initiatives, starting with our first lady using domestic luxury brands, and it will continue with the replacement of official car fleet of Audi and what not with our domestic cars.

Do we at this point need to be as good? Not really, we aren't competing "fairly" if you must, we can overlook somethings just for the fact that we are all Chinese.

What you need to remember is we are China, not Japan, not Britan, we have MASSIVE resources even at our weakest points. Our margin for error is far greater and our potential for greatness is also far better.

Michael jordan on a bad day is still better than some scrub, maybe once in a long while the scrub can do better in ONE game, but in the end MJ is MJ.

lol.....touches some nerve......

You are right, all things started with a token, but how long it take for Sam Walton to growth from Wal-Mart discount city into Walmart multi-national corporation?? It took 45 years. And a lot of failure in between to refine the "Wal-Mart" brand.

Meanwhile you can start replacing whatever you like, you can go up front and tell everyone "Hey we are using Chinese own product" But even your number 1 is using the Boeing plane, granted we should not put bug in it, but the very fact that the number 1 Chinese is flying US plane is saying something

Also the all mighty Comac C919 the previous Chinese member so proud of, put them in the same league with Airbus and Boeing, did you know which engine is running on the purposed C919?? It's a GE CFM international. That again is saying something.

CFM International LEAP - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Resource will run out some time at some point, not a single country can have unlimited resource to deal with anything. You need to know, MJ will not be the same MJ who took 7 NBA championship, it would still be the same MJ but at the same time, he will be different


I have nothing against Chinese Aviation, actually my Brother who IS a Boeing engine engineer who specialise in RR Trent always say one of those day he probably have to go back to China and study their engine some day. The thing that make me mad is Chinese member here trying to compare the Engine/Aviation tech in China, which is still at it infancy, to the Aviation Giant like the US.

I have no argument on whether or not Chinese did a good job or not, I have a problem with Chinese member saying Y-20 is anyway better than C-17 if we discount the engine.

I mean, how many time you hear an aircraft crash because of structural failure? And how many time you hear a plane crash due to "Engine Failure" and I do not consider US plane are that badly build apart from the engine too. Have you ever heard of China Airlines Flight 006? Ask yourselves, which aircraft they prefer to be in when that flight doing acrobatic mauver over the pacific, a Chinese Comac C919 or a Boeing 747?

 

[Tshering22]

Congratulations.

You have moved up the aviation learning curve.

All the best for your achievements.

You have worked hard for achieving this.


Hard work always pays.

 

[Beast]

lol.....touches some nerve......

You are right, all things started with a token, but how long it take for Sam Walton to growth from Wal-Mart discount city into Walmart multi-national corporation?? It took 45 years. And a lot of failure in between to refine the "Wal-Mart" brand.

Meanwhile you can start replacing whatever you like, you can go up front and tell everyone "Hey we are using Chinese own product" But even your number 1 is using the Boeing plane, granted we should not put bug in it, but the very fact that the number 1 Chinese is flying US plane is saying something

Also the all mighty Comac C919 the previous Chinese member so proud of, put them in the same league with Airbus and Boeing, did you know which engine is running on the purposed C919?? It's a GE CFM international. That again is saying something.

CFM International LEAP - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Resource will run out some time at some point, not a single country can have unlimited resource to deal with anything. You need to know, MJ will not be the same MJ who took 7 NBA championship, it would still be the same MJ but at the same time, he will be different


I have nothing against Chinese Aviation, actually my Brother who IS a Boeing engine engineer who specialise in RR Trent always say one of those day he probably have to go back to China and study their engine some day. The thing that make me mad is Chinese member here trying to compare the Engine/Aviation tech in China, which is still at it infancy, to the Aviation Giant like the US.

I have no argument on whether or not Chinese did a good job or not, I have a problem with Chinese member saying Y-20 is anyway better than C-17 if we discount the engine.

I mean, how many time you hear an aircraft crash because of structural failure? And how many time you hear a plane crash due to "Engine Failure" and I do not consider US plane are that badly build apart from the engine too. Have you ever heard of China Airlines Flight 006? Ask yourselves, which aircraft they prefer to be in when that flight doing acrobatic mauver over the pacific, a Chinese Comac C919 or a Boeing 747?

They will prefer Comac 919.. As I say you are trying compare an aircraft no debut yet while you are so sure of its quality. More or less speaks of your narrow view. The problem is the biggest airline market in the world for next 10 years will be China. Most China domestic airline is state control. Our leader will ensure airline buy the Comac 919. There is nothing you American can do anything about it. The money is in our pocket. We like to spend whatever we want. Just like how our leader forced all government official to switch to domestic car instead of Audi now..

That is also how Boeing and Airbus started.. You can cry foul but end of the day, market is dictated by us.

 

[cnleio]

Y-20 black painting

 

[jhungary]

They will prefer Comac 919.. As I say you are trying compare an aircraft no debut yet while you are so sure of its quality. More or less speaks of your narrow view. The problem is the biggest airline market in the world for next 10 years will be China. Most China domestic airline is state control. Our leader will ensure airline buy the Comac 919. There is nothing you American can do anything about it. The money is in our pocket. We like to spend whatever we want. Just like how our leader forced all government official to switch to domestic car instead of Audi now..

That is also how Boeing and Airbus started.. You can cry foul but end of the day, market is dictated by us.

lol, you do know Comac C919 uses American Engine right??

Comac C919 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

and you keep saying the future of Chinese airlines are using Chinese plane, yet the 3 giant keep ordering from both Boeing and Airbus. lol

 

[rcrmj]

lol, you do know Comac C919 uses American Engine right??

Comac C919 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

and you keep saying the future of Chinese airlines are using Chinese plane, yet the 3 giant keep ordering from both Boeing and Airbus. lol

you stupidity and naivety is really off the mark, no wonder behaves like Gaybit's toyboy,,, do you even have the slightest touch of common sense?

China is already one of the biggest airline markets and going to be the biggest one in short time, do you think Chinese will be as stupid as you to wait like 10 years to buy planes when the domestic ones are ready?

the gentlemen said it clearly that C919 wont be ready for quite some time, and we keep buying Boeing and AB is because we need that NOW for the ever growing capacity understand? whether we gonna choose C919 over Boeing and BA or not is irrelevant

 

[jhungary]

you stupidity and naivety is really off the mark, no wonder behaves like Gaybit's toyboy,,, do you even have the slightest touch of common sense?

China is already one of the biggest airline markets and going to be the biggest one in short time, do you think Chinese will be as stupid as you to wait like 10 years to buy planes when the domestic ones are ready?

the gentlemen said it clearly that C919 wont be ready for quite some time, and we keep buying Boeing and AB is because we need that NOW for the ever growing capacity understand? whether we gonna choose C919 over Boeing and BA or not is irrelevant

lol .. say that other people have no common sense and resort to name calling is what Chinese fanboy can do these day

If you call the whole country only hav 34 airlines, 1/3 of those are cargo lifter and not more than 1500 planes in general is "One of the biggest" then you need to call the 11 passenger Airlines in the US with more than 3000 planes "Giantic"

you can call whatever you want in 10 years, hell you can say China is the king of the world if you like, but if you put all your money in the C919 basket that still use CFM (American) engine, I would say your "Market" is kind of Grim don't you think?

lol: your market is "Evergrowing" please don't make people laugh

 

[rcrmj]

lol .. say that other people have no common sense and resort to name calling is what Chinese fanboy can do these day

If you call the whole country only hav 34 airlines, 1/3 of those are cargo lifter and not more than 1500 planes in general is "One of the biggest" then you need to call the 11 passenger Airlines in the US with more than 3000 planes "Giantic"

you can call whatever you want in 10 years, hell you can say China is the king of the world if you like, but if you put all your money in the C919 basket that still use CFM (American) engine, I would say your "Market" is kind of Grim don't you think?

lol: your market is "Evergrowing" please don't make people laugh

lol, more stupidity

the stupidest thing I have ever heard, to your moronic logic Chinese airline is not growing? you have a nice dig of the figures how many air travel passengers China has last year and its year on year increments? to your simpleton mind 1500 is enough for 1.4 billion population?

yeah we can call whatever we want in 10 years, regardless of your pathetic understanding of China, we will just keep growing in terms of passengers and number of planes```and yes we like to put our money on C919, as the market is lucrative and still growing with fastest rates```but for the time being we will keep buying Beoing and AB to suit our needs until the C919 and others are ready which is the question not for now`

that's right the ever declining America likes to laugh the ever growing emerging market, as that's the only thing can make you feel better```

no matter how hard you want laugh at C919 or Chinese aviation industry atm, and the truth is we will get there and we will keep expending

 

[Genesis]

lol.....touches some nerve......

You are right, all things started with a token, but how long it take for Sam Walton to growth from Wal-Mart discount city into Walmart multi-national corporation?? It took 45 years. And a lot of failure in between to refine the "Wal-Mart" brand.

Meanwhile you can start replacing whatever you like, you can go up front and tell everyone "Hey we are using Chinese own product" But even your number 1 is using the Boeing plane, granted we should not put bug in it, but the very fact that the number 1 Chinese is flying US plane is saying something

Also the all mighty Comac C919 the previous Chinese member so proud of, put them in the same league with Airbus and Boeing, did you know which engine is running on the purposed C919?? It's a GE CFM international. That again is saying something.

CFM International LEAP - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Resource will run out some time at some point, not a single country can have unlimited resource to deal with anything. You need to know, MJ will not be the same MJ who took 7 NBA championship, it would still be the same MJ but at the same time, he will be different


I have nothing against Chinese Aviation, actually my Brother who IS a Boeing engine engineer who specialise in RR Trent always say one of those day he probably have to go back to China and study their engine some day. The thing that make me mad is Chinese member here trying to compare the Engine/Aviation tech in China, which is still at it infancy, to the Aviation Giant like the US.

I have no argument on whether or not Chinese did a good job or not, I have a problem with Chinese member saying Y-20 is anyway better than C-17 if we discount the engine.

I mean, how many time you hear an aircraft crash because of structural failure? And how many time you hear a plane crash due to "Engine Failure" and I do not consider US plane are that badly build apart from the engine too. Have you ever heard of China Airlines Flight 006? Ask yourselves, which aircraft they prefer to be in when that flight doing acrobatic mauver over the pacific, a Chinese Comac C919 or a Boeing 747?

hit what nerve, I'm don't follow these types of news, in fact, if Boeing is doing a good job, why repeat it, unless we got something else to contribute, which at this point is probably not at all.

The wal-mart thing is just a simple comparison, didn't need his life story. For one thing when he started he wasn't rich, which we are, he didn't have the staff he had then as he did now, which we have. He's one dude we are a country. Just saying we are getting started, nothing more.

As to we are flying American, that was when we couldn't make our own, only recently did we start to make progress. Even the Audi replacement is going to take time.

It's saying we just started, so while you admit we just started, but at the same time, you want to use the highest standards.

Airbus may be ahead of us, but are not in a different league. When Man city started with a ton of cash, they were not as good a team as Man UTD, but they weren't in different leagues. Man city quickly caught up using that cash, while UTD have to watch.

This is the same deal, we are pumping massive amounts of funding and giving them a market to operate in China, which BTW is close to the size of a continent, and with our rising standards of living air travel will be more and more popular. So while not as good, we are not far behind either. They got the tech and customers we got the cash and man power to take it away.

Resources will run out? This is a plane, not to create superman. Even F-35 only cost 300 Billion+ in a few decades. So if we use that figure, which is won't be that much ,it's a price we can more than afford 100 times over without breaking a sweat.

To your last part of your post. This pretty much sums up why US and China can never work together. You can't see past the prejudices, and must always look at us like we were still in the 70s and starving to death.

We are just starting, but the difference isn't as big as you think it is.


Finally, this is argument is silly in the sense that the Aviation industry is not the driving force of China, it is not the hardest thing to achieve. This is like learning to ride a bike instead of learning to walk. It's much simpler and is easily achievable. We can turn our country from worse to Africa to colonizing Africa in 30 years, but this is obviously the place where we are stuck.

 

[jhungary]

hit what nerve, I'm don't follow these types of news, in fact, if Boeing is doing a good job, why repeat it, unless we got something else to contribute, which at this point is probably not at all.

The wal-mart thing is just a simple comparison, didn't need his life story. For one thing when he started he wasn't rich, which we are, he didn't have the staff he had then as he did now, which we have. He's one dude we are a country. Just saying we are getting started, nothing more.

As to we are flying American, that was when we couldn't make our own, only recently did we start to make progress. Even the Audi replacement is going to take time.

It's saying we just started, so while you admit we just started, but at the same time, you want to use the highest standards.

Airbus may be ahead of us, but are not in a different league. When Man city started with a ton of cash, they were not as good a team as Man UTD, but they weren't in different leagues. Man city quickly caught up using that cash, while UTD have to watch.

This is the same deal, we are pumping massive amounts of funding and giving them a market to operate in China, which BTW is close to the size of a continent, and with our rising standards of living air travel will be more and more popular. So while not as good, we are not far behind either. They got the tech and customers we got the cash and man power to take it away.

Resources will run out? This is a plane, not to create superman. Even F-35 only cost 300 Billion+ in a few decades. So if we use that figure, which is won't be that much ,it's a price we can more than afford 100 times over without breaking a sweat.

To your last part of your post. This pretty much sums up why US and China can never work together. You can't see past the prejudices, and must always look at us like we were still in the 70s and starving to death.

We are just starting, but the difference isn't as big as you think it is.


Finally, this is argument is silly in the sense that the Aviation industry is not the driving force of China, it is not the hardest thing to achieve. This is like learning to ride a bike instead of learning to walk. It's much simpler and is easily achievable. We can turn our country from worse to Africa to colonizing Africa in 30 years, but this is obviously the place where we are stuck.

I have no intention to reply thru all the comment, just 2 point I want to say

1.) I am not the one who expected high standard from Chinese Aviation, Chinese member here claim the Y-20 is any bit NOT AS GOOD AS, but BETTER than C-17. To me, this is funny, look a few psot before my last post and see who actually claiming the Chinese Aviation is of good standard.

2.) Resource WILL run out, I don't mean now, but they do, unless you can create atoms (Not splitting them) Resource WILL runs out, the rate we (CHinese included) wasted our resource, we will face a day without fossil fuel, without alloy/metal. Hence all the recycle program was started. If you expect your country would have unlimited resource, then I can say you are wrong.

Other than that I am not interested on discuss Man UTD or Man City, I am not a foodball fan.

lol, more stupidity

the stupidest thing I have ever heard, to your moronic logic Chinese airline is not growing? you have a nice dig of the figures how many air travel passengers China has last year and its year on year increments? to your simpleton mind 1500 is enough for 1.4 billion population?

yeah we can call whatever we want in 10 years, regardless of your pathetic understanding of China, we will just keep growing in terms of passengers and number of planes```and yes we like to put our money on C919, as the market is lucrative and still growing with fastest rates```but for the time being we will keep buying Beoing and AB to suit our needs until the C919 and others are ready which is the question not for now`

that's right the ever declining America likes to laugh the ever growing emerging market, as that's the only thing can make you feel better```

no matter how hard you want laugh at C919 or Chinese aviation industry atm, and the truth is we will get there and we will keep expending

lol tell me WHEN you got there, not In 10 years time. Unless you claim you have psychic ability, I am not interested in Chinese Member "Foresee" their future.

As of today, the only narrow body jet Chinese make IS using American Engine, no matter what you say DOES NOT MATTER.

And last time I check US have 1.8% growth, it's NOT DECLINING

Have fun flying our Boeing 767 now

 

[Genesis]

I have no intention to reply thru all the comment, just 2 point I want to say

1.) I am not the one who expected high standard from Chinese Aviation, Chinese member here claim the Y-20 is any bit NOT AS GOOD AS, but BETTER than C-17. To me, this is funny, look a few psot before my last post and see who actually claiming the Chinese Aviation is of good standard.

2.) Resource WILL run out, I don't mean now, but they do, unless you can create atoms (Not splitting them) Resource WILL runs out, the rate we (CHinese included) wasted our resource, we will face a day without fossil fuel, without alloy/metal. Hence all the recycle program was started. If you expect your country would have unlimited resource, then I can say you are wrong.

Other than that I am not interested on discuss Man UTD or Man City, I am not a foodball fan.



lol tell me WHEN you got there, not In 10 years time. Unless you claim you have psychic ability, I am not interested in Chinese Member "Foresee" their future.

As of today, the only narrow body jet Chinese make IS using American Engine, no matter what you say DOES NOT MATTER.

And last time I check US have 1.8% growth, it's NOT DECLINING

Have fun flying our Boeing 767 now

I will only reply to your two things then.

First. It is good standard now. It isn't the best but it's getting there. The thing is, there is a committed group of people, including the government that wants Chinese brands to flourish.

There is funding. There is talent. I don't need to provide proof for this do I, I'm assuming anyone on this forum knows the education and money situation in China.

So while we are not there we are on our way.

Second, resources will run out? maybe, but that is not anytime soon and probably won't even be in the children I don't have yet's life time.

Besides, it won't just run out for China, but the world. Last time I checked the US is in the world.

But more importantly, how does this affect our aviation industry now or even 30 years now? Or even potentially ever? With new tech and resources being developed.

Why are we talking resources again?