WSJ:Russia’s Use of Iranian Kamikaze Drones Creates New Dangers for Ukrainian Troops

[IranDefence]

Shahed-136 drones supplied to Russia carried out several devastating strikes in Ukraine’s Kharkiv region over past week, Ukrainian commanders say​

Russia has inflicted serious damage on Ukrainian forces with recently introduced Iranian drones, in its first wide-scale deployment of a foreign weapons system since the war began, Ukrainian commanders say.

Over the past week, Shahed-136 delta-wing drones, repainted in Russian colors and rebranded as Geranium 2, started appearing over Ukrainian armor and artillery positions in the northeastern Kharkiv region, said Col. Rodion Kulagin, commander of artillery of Ukraine’s 92nd Mechanized Brigade.

In his brigade’s operational area alone, the Iranian drones—which usually fly in pairs and then slam into their targets—have destroyed two 152-mm self-propelled howitzers, two 122-mm self-propelled howitzers, as well as two BTR armored infantry vehicles, he said.

Before the current wide-scale use of the Shaheds, Russia carried out a test last month, striking a U.S.-supplied M777 155-mm towed howitzer with the drone, Col. Kulagin said. Another Iranian drone malfunctioned and was recovered, he said.

So far, the Iranian drones seem to have been mostly deployed in the Kharkiv region, where the 92nd Brigade and other Ukrainian forces carried out a major offensive this month, retaking some 8,500 sq. kilometers, or roughly 3,300 sq. miles, of land occupied by Russia and seizing or destroying hundreds of Russian tanks, artillery pieces and armored carriers.

“In other areas, the Russians have overwhelming artillery firepower, and they manage with that. Here, they no longer have that artillery advantage, and so they have started to resort to these drones,” Col. Kulagin said.

Independent experts who examined photographs of recent drone wreckage from the Kharkiv region say that it appears to be Shahed-136, the latest evolution of Tehran’s delta-wing design.

Scott Crino, founder and chief executive of Red Six Solutions LLC, a strategic consulting firm, said the Shahed-136 could provide Russia with a “potent counterweight” to the high-tech weapons systems, such as Himars missile launchers, that the U.S. has provided to Ukraine.

“The presence of Shahed-136 in Ukraine war is undoubtedly changing the operational plans of Kyiv,” he said. “The sheer size of Ukraine battlefield makes it hard to defend against the Shahed-136.”

Mr. Crino said the Shahed-136 can be used with great effect with one targeting a radar system and the second one hitting artillery pieces. Iran also has antijamming systems that can make it hard for Ukrainian forces to counter, he said. “Once a Shahed locks onto target, it will be hard to stop,” he said.

Russia’s use of Shahed-136 drones in Ukraine represents the most challenging expansion of Tehran’s arsenal beyond the Middle East, where Iran has successfully used its unmanned aerial vehicles to pressure America and its allies in the region. It also highlights the deficiencies in Russia’s own drone program, which hasn’t been able to match the firepower of armed UAVs deployed by Ukraine.

Israel and the West have accused Iran and its proxies of flying armed drones to attack Saudi Arabia’s oil industry, the capital of the United Arab Emirates, American soldiers in Syria, as well as tankers in the Gulf of Oman in recent years.

The British Ministry of Defense, in its intelligence update on Sept. 14, also said it was highly likely that Russia had deployed Iranian drones in Ukraine for the first time. Noting that the Shahed-136 has a claimed range of 2,500 kilometers, it added that so far, it appears that Moscow is using these drones for tactical strikes near front lines rather than to destroy more strategic targets deep into Ukrainian territory.

Debris of what Ukrainian military authorities described as an Iranian-made Shahed-136 drone, which was shot down in Ukraine’s Kharkiv region.

The Iranian drones are relatively small and fly at a very low altitude, making it hard for Ukrainian air-defense systems to detect them, Col. Kulagin said. He said he hoped the U.S. and allies could provide Ukraine with more advanced antidrone technologies, or would step in to disrupt Iranian drone shipments to Russia.

In July, U.S. national security adviser Jake Sullivan warned that Russian defense officials had visited Iran, preparing to purchase up to several hundred Iranian drones, including the weapons-capable ones, on an expedited timeline. At the time, Iran’s Foreign Minister Hossein Amir-Abdollahian denied the plan in a phone call with his Ukrainian counterpart and said that Tehran opposed the war on Ukraine, according to a statement by the Iranian Foreign Ministry.

Russia hasn’t publicly commented on Iranian drone purchases. Iran’s Foreign Ministry didn’t respond to a recent Wall Street Journal request to comment on the matter. The Kremlin and the Russian Defense Ministry didn’t immediately respond to requests for comment.

On Sept. 8., the U.S. Department of the Treasury said it had sanctioned Iranian company Safiran Airport Services for coordinating Russian military flights that transported Iranian drones and related equipment to Russia, and Iranian drone-manufacturing companies Paravar Pars, DAMA and Baharestan Kish.

Drones of different kinds play an important role in the Ukrainian conflict, in part because neither side has air superiority and is, therefore, reluctant to use manned aircraft over enemy positions. Hundreds of military and commercial reconnaissance drones hover in the air daily along the front lines, spotting targets and guiding artillery fire.

Ukraine, unlike Russia, also operates a fleet of drones armed with missiles. These Turkish-made Bayraktar TB2 drones destroyed several Russian armored columns in the early days of the war and are being used more frequently once again, now that Kyiv has been able to weaken Russian air defenses in many areas, in part thanks to U.S.-supplied AGM-88 HARM antiradar missiles.

The U.S. accused Iran of using delta-wing drones as part of a coordinated 2019 attack on Saudi Arabia’s oil facilities, including in Jeddah.

Both Russia and Ukraine also use what are known as kamikaze drones, or loitering munitions. Russia’s Kalashnikov Group has developed a homemade drone known as Kub-Bla, while Ukraine is flying Polish-made Warmate and U.S.-supplied Switchblade drones, as well as some locally-made UAVs. These munitions have a much shorter range and flying time than the Iranian-developed Shahed drones, and carry a significantly smaller payload.

Iran has emerged as one of the world’s most resourceful developers of combat drones, in part by reverse-engineering American drones that went astray over the past two decades in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Since Iran unveiled its kamikaze drones in 2016, versions of them have been used to carry out attacks across the Middle East. Last year, the British government accused Iran of using Shahed-136 drones to strike an Israeli-affiliated oil tanker off the coast of Oman, in an incident that killed two crew members. A U.S. military investigation recovered drone debris from the MT Mercer Street tanker and concluded that these were parts of Iranian made delta-wing drones.

Washington also accused Iran of using delta-wing drones as part of a coordinated 2019 attack on Saudi Arabia’s oil industry.

The U.S. and Israel have accused Iran of providing militants everywhere from Yemen to Lebanon with the training and the parts they need to develop their own drones.


Iran-backed Houthi forces in Yemen have repeatedly used delta-wing drones to carry out attacks on neighboring Saudi Arabia. In February, Israeli officials said, U.S. jet fighters brought down two Iranian delta-wing drones over northern Iraq. Israeli officials said the drones were heading for Israel.

While the Biden administration has been warning for months that Iran was preparing to provide Russia with hundreds of drones to use in Ukraine, the U.S. initially expected Tehran to have shipped drones capable of carrying missiles, not the kamikaze-style Shaheds.

Michael Knights, a military specialist at the Washington Institute for Near East Policy, a think tank, predicted that Ukrainian forces would be able to quickly counter the threat posed by Iranian kamikaze drones. “Iran’s drones look snazzy in Yemen and Syria and Gaza, but they’re increasingly blockable,” he said.

Ukraine, he said, is “a serious counter-air environment and electronic warfare environment that Iran hasn’t really experienced before.” These drones, Mr. Knights added, “tend to have effect at first and then the shock effect wears off.”

Wall street journal

 

[Cthulhu]

Shahed-136 be like:

 

[BlessedKingOfLonging]

Ukraine, he said, is “a serious counter-air environment and electronic warfare environment that Iran hasn’t really experienced before.” These drones, Mr. Knights added, “tend to have effect at first and then the shock effect wears off.”

Now this is far more interesting than anything else. But Hezbollah conducts reconnaisance flights into isnotreal with it's own UAVs and the anti-aircraft/electronic warfare environment is not less challenging than Ukraine's at the very least.

Even if S-136 begins facing a roadblock, how long will it take to overcome this?

 

[Mehdipersian]

If Russia buyed several hundreds of these drone. Ukrainian troops and equipments are in real danger

 

[BlessedKingOfLonging]

If Russia buyed several hundreds of these drone. Ukrainian troops and equipments are in real dangerous

Depending on how they use these UAVs, of course. They're striking frontline targets with them instead of using them for deep penetrative attacks against the Ukrainian logistics chain.

 

[Type59]

Iran has become a major power. Focus on drones over manned platforms has allowed Iran to build a deterrent. Not saying Iran can successfully wage a war against GCC, but has built an asymmetrical capacity that will make any war costly.

NK needs to learn and move away from cold war tactics.

 

[DF41]

If Russia buyed several hundreds of these drone. Ukrainian troops and equipments are in real dangerous

Get thousands and tens of thousands of Chinese FH-901 suicide drones.
Get a hundred boxes to start with

FH-901 carry 10 times the bang of Switchblade, much longer loitering time and can carry out swarming attacks.

That will make Murican Switchblade look like a switchblade brought to a machine gun fight.

Zelensky and rest of NATO gangsters will crawl 3 times around Red Square and beg forgiveness
Especially as after de nazification of Ukraine, Russia move to denazified NATO as well.

China unveils its own 'switchblade' suicide drone
China has launched its own switchblade cruise missile, what's so magical about the Feihong-901? [Time and frequency of strong national defense] Welcome to subscribe to leave a message. Powerful defense time and frequency, bringing you the latest, most unique and in-depth news information, committed to creating the hottest and most cutting-edge military news! Overview of global military information, inventory of the latest weapons at home and abroad China launches its own "Switchblade" suicide drone, what's so magical about the Feihong 901?

 

[Trango Towers]

Interesting how Turkey and now Iran are drone champions on the battlefield

 

[khansaheeb]

Shahed-136 drones supplied to Russia carried out several devastating strikes in Ukraine’s Kharkiv region over past week, Ukrainian commanders say​

Russia has inflicted serious damage on Ukrainian forces with recently introduced Iranian drones, in its first wide-scale deployment of a foreign weapons system since the war began, Ukrainian commanders say.

Over the past week, Shahed-136 delta-wing drones, repainted in Russian colors and rebranded as Geranium 2, started appearing over Ukrainian armor and artillery positions in the northeastern Kharkiv region, said Col. Rodion Kulagin, commander of artillery of Ukraine’s 92nd Mechanized Brigade.

In his brigade’s operational area alone, the Iranian drones—which usually fly in pairs and then slam into their targets—have destroyed two 152-mm self-propelled howitzers, two 122-mm self-propelled howitzers, as well as two BTR armored infantry vehicles, he said.

View attachment 880304

Before the current wide-scale use of the Shaheds, Russia carried out a test last month, striking a U.S.-supplied M777 155-mm towed howitzer with the drone, Col. Kulagin said. Another Iranian drone malfunctioned and was recovered, he said.

So far, the Iranian drones seem to have been mostly deployed in the Kharkiv region, where the 92nd Brigade and other Ukrainian forces carried out a major offensive this month, retaking some 8,500 sq. kilometers, or roughly 3,300 sq. miles, of land occupied by Russia and seizing or destroying hundreds of Russian tanks, artillery pieces and armored carriers.

“In other areas, the Russians have overwhelming artillery firepower, and they manage with that. Here, they no longer have that artillery advantage, and so they have started to resort to these drones,” Col. Kulagin said.

Independent experts who examined photographs of recent drone wreckage from the Kharkiv region say that it appears to be Shahed-136, the latest evolution of Tehran’s delta-wing design.

Scott Crino, founder and chief executive of Red Six Solutions LLC, a strategic consulting firm, said the Shahed-136 could provide Russia with a “potent counterweight” to the high-tech weapons systems, such as Himars missile launchers, that the U.S. has provided to Ukraine.

View attachment 880306

“The presence of Shahed-136 in Ukraine war is undoubtedly changing the operational plans of Kyiv,” he said. “The sheer size of Ukraine battlefield makes it hard to defend against the Shahed-136.”

Mr. Crino said the Shahed-136 can be used with great effect with one targeting a radar system and the second one hitting artillery pieces. Iran also has antijamming systems that can make it hard for Ukrainian forces to counter, he said. “Once a Shahed locks onto target, it will be hard to stop,” he said.

Russia’s use of Shahed-136 drones in Ukraine represents the most challenging expansion of Tehran’s arsenal beyond the Middle East, where Iran has successfully used its unmanned aerial vehicles to pressure America and its allies in the region. It also highlights the deficiencies in Russia’s own drone program, which hasn’t been able to match the firepower of armed UAVs deployed by Ukraine.

Israel and the West have accused Iran and its proxies of flying armed drones to attack Saudi Arabia’s oil industry, the capital of the United Arab Emirates, American soldiers in Syria, as well as tankers in the Gulf of Oman in recent years.

The British Ministry of Defense, in its intelligence update on Sept. 14, also said it was highly likely that Russia had deployed Iranian drones in Ukraine for the first time. Noting that the Shahed-136 has a claimed range of 2,500 kilometers, it added that so far, it appears that Moscow is using these drones for tactical strikes near front lines rather than to destroy more strategic targets deep into Ukrainian territory.

Debris of what Ukrainian military authorities described as an Iranian-made Shahed-136 drone, which was shot down in Ukraine’s Kharkiv region.

The Iranian drones are relatively small and fly at a very low altitude, making it hard for Ukrainian air-defense systems to detect them, Col. Kulagin said. He said he hoped the U.S. and allies could provide Ukraine with more advanced antidrone technologies, or would step in to disrupt Iranian drone shipments to Russia.

In July, U.S. national security adviser Jake Sullivan warned that Russian defense officials had visited Iran, preparing to purchase up to several hundred Iranian drones, including the weapons-capable ones, on an expedited timeline. At the time, Iran’s Foreign Minister Hossein Amir-Abdollahian denied the plan in a phone call with his Ukrainian counterpart and said that Tehran opposed the war on Ukraine, according to a statement by the Iranian Foreign Ministry.

Russia hasn’t publicly commented on Iranian drone purchases. Iran’s Foreign Ministry didn’t respond to a recent Wall Street Journal request to comment on the matter. The Kremlin and the Russian Defense Ministry didn’t immediately respond to requests for comment.

On Sept. 8., the U.S. Department of the Treasury said it had sanctioned Iranian company Safiran Airport Services for coordinating Russian military flights that transported Iranian drones and related equipment to Russia, and Iranian drone-manufacturing companies Paravar Pars, DAMA and Baharestan Kish.

Drones of different kinds play an important role in the Ukrainian conflict, in part because neither side has air superiority and is, therefore, reluctant to use manned aircraft over enemy positions. Hundreds of military and commercial reconnaissance drones hover in the air daily along the front lines, spotting targets and guiding artillery fire.

Ukraine, unlike Russia, also operates a fleet of drones armed with missiles. These Turkish-made Bayraktar TB2 drones destroyed several Russian armored columns in the early days of the war and are being used more frequently once again, now that Kyiv has been able to weaken Russian air defenses in many areas, in part thanks to U.S.-supplied AGM-88 HARM antiradar missiles.

The U.S. accused Iran of using delta-wing drones as part of a coordinated 2019 attack on Saudi Arabia’s oil facilities, including in Jeddah.

Both Russia and Ukraine also use what are known as kamikaze drones, or loitering munitions. Russia’s Kalashnikov Group has developed a homemade drone known as Kub-Bla, while Ukraine is flying Polish-made Warmate and U.S.-supplied Switchblade drones, as well as some locally-made UAVs. These munitions have a much shorter range and flying time than the Iranian-developed Shahed drones, and carry a significantly smaller payload.

Iran has emerged as one of the world’s most resourceful developers of combat drones, in part by reverse-engineering American drones that went astray over the past two decades in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Since Iran unveiled its kamikaze drones in 2016, versions of them have been used to carry out attacks across the Middle East. Last year, the British government accused Iran of using Shahed-136 drones to strike an Israeli-affiliated oil tanker off the coast of Oman, in an incident that killed two crew members. A U.S. military investigation recovered drone debris from the MT Mercer Street tanker and concluded that these were parts of Iranian made delta-wing drones.

Washington also accused Iran of using delta-wing drones as part of a coordinated 2019 attack on Saudi Arabia’s oil industry.

The U.S. and Israel have accused Iran of providing militants everywhere from Yemen to Lebanon with the training and the parts they need to develop their own drones.


Iran-backed Houthi forces in Yemen have repeatedly used delta-wing drones to carry out attacks on neighboring Saudi Arabia. In February, Israeli officials said, U.S. jet fighters brought down two Iranian delta-wing drones over northern Iraq. Israeli officials said the drones were heading for Israel.

While the Biden administration has been warning for months that Iran was preparing to provide Russia with hundreds of drones to use in Ukraine, the U.S. initially expected Tehran to have shipped drones capable of carrying missiles, not the kamikaze-style Shaheds.

Michael Knights, a military specialist at the Washington Institute for Near East Policy, a think tank, predicted that Ukrainian forces would be able to quickly counter the threat posed by Iranian kamikaze drones. “Iran’s drones look snazzy in Yemen and Syria and Gaza, but they’re increasingly blockable,” he said.

Ukraine, he said, is “a serious counter-air environment and electronic warfare environment that Iran hasn’t really experienced before.” These drones, Mr. Knights added, “tend to have effect at first and then the shock effect wears off.”

Wall street journal

Pakistan should partner with Iran so we can start manufacturing these in quantities in Pakistan. Full drone technology exchange is the need of the day.

 

[aziqbal]

Get thousands and tens of thousands of Chinese FH-901 suicide drones.
Get a hundred boxes to start with

FH-901 carry 10 times the bang of Switchblade, much longer loitering time and can carry out swarming attacks.

That will make Murican Switchblade look like a switchblade brought to a machine gun fight.

Zelensky and rest of NATO gangsters will crawl 3 times around Red Square and beg forgiveness
Especially as after de nazification of Ukraine, Russia move to denazified NATO as well.

China unveils its own 'switchblade' suicide drone
China has launched its own switchblade cruise missile, what's so magical about the Feihong-901? [Time and frequency of strong national defense] Welcome to subscribe to leave a message. Powerful defense time and frequency, bringing you the latest, most unique and in-depth news information, committed to creating the hottest and most cutting-edge military news! Overview of global military information, inventory of the latest weapons at home and abroad China launches its own "Switchblade" suicide drone, what's so magical about the Feihong 901?

Chinese are scared to death to support Russia

China really can help Russia but they simply dont have the balls

 

[QWECXZ]

Get thousands and tens of thousands of Chinese FH-901 suicide drones.
Get a hundred boxes to start with

FH-901 carry 10 times the bang of Switchblade, much longer loitering time and can carry out swarming attacks.

That will make Murican Switchblade look like a switchblade brought to a machine gun fight.

Zelensky and rest of NATO gangsters will crawl 3 times around Red Square and beg forgiveness
Especially as after de nazification of Ukraine, Russia move to denazified NATO as well.

China unveils its own 'switchblade' suicide drone
China has launched its own switchblade cruise missile, what's so magical about the Feihong-901? [Time and frequency of strong national defense] Welcome to subscribe to leave a message. Powerful defense time and frequency, bringing you the latest, most unique and in-depth news information, committed to creating the hottest and most cutting-edge military news! Overview of global military information, inventory of the latest weapons at home and abroad China launches its own "Switchblade" suicide drone, what's so magical about the Feihong 901?

There's no doubt that China has game changing weapons that can be mass produced with China's massive labor force and industrial basis. However, China is quite passive and has never shown herself to be willing to engage in disputes against the West.

Iran-Russia relations have had their ups and downs, but I think Iran is by far a more reliable partner for Russia than China is at this time.

 

[DF41]

Chinese are scared to death to support Russia

China really can help Russia but they simply dont have the balls

China got the balls to carry single shot bolt action rifles to fight Murica with her battleships and carriers and planes and Ma Deuces and kicked them with pee and turds running down the legs of their pants and their screaming MAMA MAMA to flee south of the Parallel.

Chinese got the balls to teach kamikaze to Japanese as Chinese got little arms to fight them but swords and spears and killed nearly 2 million Japanese while Murican with carriers and battleships and marines killed 200,000 japs



In 1950, the weakness of China very very real and not imaginary at all. Armed largely with single shot bolt action rifle a noch above black powder muzzle loader.

How can China ever hoped to prevail against battleships with 16 inch guns and planes and artillery and Ma Deuces with unlimited ammo supply and the claimed battle savy of USA army and Marines?

Dugout Doug and his generals laughed at those chink laundrymen and promised that they be crushed to red paste with firepower and laughed at the China warning not to approach Yalu river.


The military might and strength of USA with heavy artillery and planes and tanks and battleships with 16 inch guns cannot be resisted by China with economy slightly out of stone age and with single shot bolt action rifles. Bolt operated rifles were just one stage above using muzzle loading muskets and black powder.

That Chinese be slaughtered and turned into red pulp should they dare to fight good old Dugout in Korea.

Chinese whacked USA and the UN combined that they had to flee south of the Parallel as demanded by China.Chinese fought with bolt operated rifles against Ma Dueces , automatic weapons and artillery and tanks and planes and chopters and battleships with 16″ guns.

Go read the book by David Halberstam
The Coldest Winter

and Korea : the first war we lost by Bevin Alexander

THEY WILL NOT DARE TO SAY CHINESE GOT NO BALLS

Look on the front line at 24 Nov 1950 and the front line of 16 Dec 1950.

It took China only twenty days and less to do that push down to 38 parallel fighting USA and the UN combined who had 100 times and more of the firepower of China.

=================================================================

And for the Sino Japan war, Japan was so confident that Japan will need only 3 months to smash and conquer whole of China. Especially considering the arms Japan got and the almost no arms China got.

That was enforced by the rape of China from the Imperial powers that of course not allow China to manufacture weapons, major or minor.



Did the Japanese win in CHina?
Could the Japs win in China?
I thought they were stuck in a quagmire and sucked deeper and deeper in China and being killed and injured by the millions in the Sino Japanese war despite the Chinese having pathetically little arms.
I think the German Army stuck and surrounded in Stalingrad got more arms and supplies send to them than what was send in all entirety to the Chinese in China during the Sino Japanese war.
Japan got sucked into quicksand in China despite overwhelming military advantage and 4 to 5 times as many Japanese died at the hands of Chinese than they did in the islands of Pacific at the arms of the USA Marines and Army and Navy.
That the Japanese soldiers were very well trained can be seen in their earlier victories against British and USA.
The Japanese could fight very very well.
As to how Japs could fight, do recall 36,000 Japanese invaded Malaya , forced and fought their way down and utterly defeated 86,000++ British troops capturing Singapore. So do not think Japs could not fight.
About 130,000 Indian, Australian and British troops became prisoners of war when Singapore was surrended to General Yamashita. The 130,000 Brits and Allied forces with artillery and tanks and planes and guns and lots of ammo surrended to 36,000 Japs who rode down on fucking bicycles fighting with guns and hardly any arty .
Neither could the Americans hold off the Japanese at the beginning because the Japanese fought extremely well against USA as seen in Corregidor.
The defensive arsenal on Corregidor was formidable with 45 coastal guns and mortars organized into 23 batteries, some seventy-two anti-aircraft weapons assigned to thirteen batteries and a minefield of approximately 35 groups of controlled mines.
The two 12-inch (305 mm) guns of Batteries Smith and Hearn, with a horizontal range of 29,000 yd (27,000 m) and all-around traverse were the longest range of all the island's artillery.
Caballo Island, with Fort Hughes—just south of Corregidor—was the next largest in area. At about 160 acres (65 ha), the island rose abruptly from the bay to a height of 380 ft (120 m) on its western side. Commander Francis J. Bridget was in charge of its beach defenses with a total of 800 men, of whom 93 were Marines and 443 belonged to the Navy, by the end of April 1942. Coastal artillery numbered some 13 assorted pieces, with its anti-aircraft defenses tied in with those of Corregidor.
Fort Drum—which lay about 4 mi (6.4 km) south of Fort Hughes—was the most unusual of the harbor defenses. Military engineers had cut away the entire top of El Fraile Island down to the water-line and used the island as a foundation to build a reinforced concrete "battleship", 350 ft (110 m) long and 144 ft (44 m) wide, with exterior walls of concrete and steel 25–36 ft (7.6–11.0 m) thick. The top deck of this concrete battleship was 40 ft (12 m) above the low-water mark and had 20 ft (6.1 m) thick walls. Equipped with four 14-inch (356 mm) guns in armored turrets facing seaward, a secondary battery of four casemated 6-inch (152 mm) gunsguns, and two antiaircraft guns, the fort with its 200-man garrison was considered impregnable to attack.
And the 13,000++ USA and Filipino soldiers left on Corregidor with all those hardware and lots of military goodies were ran over and surrendered to 2,400++ Japs in three landings made by the Japs on the island.
And that Gen McArthur ran away from his troops in Corregidor for which he was awarded MOH for his glorious act of running away.
As for China at the time of the Sino Japanese war, China was defenseless.
China had little industry in China being raped and pillaged by Western powers all set to divide and dismembered her and selling opium to China prior to the Sino Japanese war from July 7, 1937, to September 2, 1945
And for that purpose, the Western Powers were not going to let China have the means to produce armaments which could be used to stop the West from enjoying what they could from China.
Second Sino-Japanese War - Wikipedia
Japanese had a very strong military and armaments , from the steel USA happily sold to her for that purpose, together with the oil . Going on until almost before Japan decided to attack Pearl harbour because the Japanese were very unhappy USA not selling to Japan as much steel and oil as they want to beat and loot China in the way the Japanese want to.
China ports were all taken by Japanese so nothing could get through and for that matter, USA was not going to do that as USA had this great friendship going on with Japan.
Until Japan attacked Pearl Harbour that USA decided perhaps USA needed to supply arms to China except USA main focus was to supply arms to Europe as China was a bastard child. China did not even get 1% of the armaments supplied to UK, Russia and other Allied forces in other theatres of war.
The much ballyhooed military lift over the Hump was a fucking joke as that primarily was to try to get fuel and bombs over to bases for USA planes to bomb Japan and not arms for China. And at that, the fuel required to fly over the hump, and to fly back meant only a pittance could be brought over.
Chinese had to take on 80% of the Japanese Armed strength in China itself and 20% of the Japanese in the Pacific fighting the Americans
From Jamie Wong answer to How powerful is the Chinese military?
As a matter of fact, a lot of PLA soldiers didn’t even have a rifle. For major battles, each soldier got 1 rifle, 100~200 bullets, and 2~3 grenades. As for the guerrillas who was fighting in the Japanese occupied ares, half of them didn’t even have a rifle or pistol. Each battle, 5 rounds were the standard equipment. Others had to use blades and spears.
[

↑ This picture shows the common situation of PLA guerrillas.
]

]↑ And this was already a major division, but in the tough area.[
]

↑ This is how the 8th route army looked like. It was the major division of PLA. Still no armored vehicle.[
]

[
E]This was how Chinese went into battle in 1941
Those Chinese lucky enough to have rifles would have five rounds for each rifle. The rest using swords and spears against Japanese machine guns, tanks and artillery.
Yet they fought and killed Japanese invaders.
Even though the Chinese had no experience with fighting, and Japanese very well armed and with enormous experience in war and killing, Chinese took them on. (so those that always harp and crow that Chinese got no experience, please remember this and take note)
And Chinese killed over 1.5 million Japanese soldiers. Chinese did it by strapping explosives to their bodies to rush at tanks and machine guns and Japanese concentration of troops in suicidal charges.
Except the chinese being chinese, never ever will call their charges as banzai charges.
This not only killed Japanese, this terrified them as to how Chinese with so few arms could take on the Japanese. This was when the Japanese copied the Chinese in Japanese Pacific war against USA.
Why should the Japanese use Banzai attacks on Chinese in China? Japanese got machine guns and artillery and tanks and planes to kill the Chinese without having to go Banzaiiing!
Japanese learned Kamikazi and Banzai attacks from Chinese.
From the Chinese who had little arms and no other choices to their killing of Japanese in China.
Chinese paid with 14 ++ million of their Chinese soldiers dying . And another 14++ million Chinese civilians slaughtered and murdered by the Japanese soldiers in attempts to terrorised and intimidate China into surrendering.
For the Americans it was very different in their later fight with Japanese.
USA did not have to strap explosives to their bodies like the Chinese soldiers to rush the Japanese.
USA had battleships with 16″ guns and planes and bombs and Ma Deuces and artillery , tanks flame throwers and unlimited ammo and kitchen sink to help them take on the remaining 20% of the Japanese on islands like Iwo Jima, Guadalcanal, Guam, Okinawa maybe taking out 200,000 Japanese troops in the entire Pacific islands campaigns.[
E]

[
]Now we look at how the Chinese fought when they had adequate arms.
Battle of Yenangyaung - Wikipedia
And in Burma, at the battle of Yenangyaung, almost 7,000 British soldiers, and 500 prisoners and civilians were encircled by an equal number of Japanese soldiers from the IJA 33rd Division at Yenangyaung and its oil field. The 33rd Division had cut the Magwe road between Slim's two divisions, who were now about 50 miles (80 km) apart.
General Sun instead led his 113th Regiment with only 1,121 men, of which only 800 were combat personnel, in the rescue mission.
British veteran expresses thanks to descendants of China Expeditionary Force
And those 800 chinese saved the Brits. And those 800 Chinks pulled the chestnuts of the 7,000 valiant brits out of the fucking fire and slaughtered the IJA 33rd Division.
In China, Chinese with kungfu and spears and swords and hardly any guns hold the Japs and fought the Japs killing 1.77 million of the Japs and wounding 1.9 million Japs with suicidal charges strapping explosives to take out Jap tanks and machine guns and artillery.
But Chinese when given adequate arms could fight far better than the Japs.
Imagine now if Chinese had been given sufficient arms in China to fight the fucking Japanese there in China!
There might not even be a fucking TORA TORA TORA at Pearl Harbour. And no Japanese in Pacific at all for USA Army and Marines to fight as Japs will all be in China and being fucked and killed by Chinese in China.[

 

[aziqbal]

China got the balls to carry single shot bolt action rifles to fight Murica with her battleships and carriers and planes and Ma Deuces and kicked them with pee and turds running down the legs of their pants and their screaming MAMA MAMA to flee south of the Parallel.

Chinese got the balls to teach kamikaze to Japanese as Chinese got little arms to fight them but swords and spears and killed nearly 2 million Japanese while Murican with carriers and battleships and marines killed 200,000 japs



In 1950, the weakness of China very very real and not imaginary at all. Armed largely with single shot bolt action rifle a noch above black powder muzzle loader.

How can China ever hoped to prevail against battleships with 16 inch guns and planes and artillery and Ma Deuces with unlimited ammo supply and the claimed battle savy of USA army and Marines?

Dugout Doug and his generals laughed at those chink laundrymen and promised that they be crushed to red paste with firepower and laughed at the China warning not to approach Yalu river.


The military might and strength of USA with heavy artillery and planes and tanks and battleships with 16 inch guns cannot be resisted by China with economy slightly out of stone age and with single shot bolt action rifles. Bolt operated rifles were just one stage above using muzzle loading muskets and black powder.

That Chinese be slaughtered and turned into red pulp should they dare to fight good old Dugout in Korea.

Chinese whacked USA and the UN combined that they had to flee south of the Parallel as demanded by China.Chinese fought with bolt operated rifles against Ma Dueces , automatic weapons and artillery and tanks and planes and chopters and battleships with 16″ guns.

Go read the book by David Halberstam
The Coldest Winter

and Korea : the first war we lost by Bevin Alexander

THEY WILL NOT DARE TO SAY CHINESE GOT NO BALLS

Look on the front line at 24 Nov 1950 and the front line of 16 Dec 1950.

It took China only twenty days and less to do that push down to 38 parallel fighting USA and the UN combined who had 100 times and more of the firepower of China.

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And for the Sino Japan war, Japan was so confident that Japan will need only 3 months to smash and conquer whole of China. Especially considering the arms Japan got and the almost no arms China got.

That was enforced by the rape of China from the Imperial powers that of course not allow China to manufacture weapons, major or minor.



Did the Japanese win in CHina?
Could the Japs win in China?
I thought they were stuck in a quagmire and sucked deeper and deeper in China and being killed and injured by the millions in the Sino Japanese war despite the Chinese having pathetically little arms.
I think the German Army stuck and surrounded in Stalingrad got more arms and supplies send to them than what was send in all entirety to the Chinese in China during the Sino Japanese war.
Japan got sucked into quicksand in China despite overwhelming military advantage and 4 to 5 times as many Japanese died at the hands of Chinese than they did in the islands of Pacific at the arms of the USA Marines and Army and Navy.
That the Japanese soldiers were very well trained can be seen in their earlier victories against British and USA.
The Japanese could fight very very well.
As to how Japs could fight, do recall 36,000 Japanese invaded Malaya , forced and fought their way down and utterly defeated 86,000++ British troops capturing Singapore. So do not think Japs could not fight.
About 130,000 Indian, Australian and British troops became prisoners of war when Singapore was surrended to General Yamashita. The 130,000 Brits and Allied forces with artillery and tanks and planes and guns and lots of ammo surrended to 36,000 Japs who rode down on fucking bicycles fighting with guns and hardly any arty .
Neither could the Americans hold off the Japanese at the beginning because the Japanese fought extremely well against USA as seen in Corregidor.
The defensive arsenal on Corregidor was formidable with 45 coastal guns and mortars organized into 23 batteries, some seventy-two anti-aircraft weapons assigned to thirteen batteries and a minefield of approximately 35 groups of controlled mines.
The two 12-inch (305 mm) guns of Batteries Smith and Hearn, with a horizontal range of 29,000 yd (27,000 m) and all-around traverse were the longest range of all the island's artillery.
Caballo Island, with Fort Hughes—just south of Corregidor—was the next largest in area. At about 160 acres (65 ha), the island rose abruptly from the bay to a height of 380 ft (120 m) on its western side. Commander Francis J. Bridget was in charge of its beach defenses with a total of 800 men, of whom 93 were Marines and 443 belonged to the Navy, by the end of April 1942. Coastal artillery numbered some 13 assorted pieces, with its anti-aircraft defenses tied in with those of Corregidor.
Fort Drum—which lay about 4 mi (6.4 km) south of Fort Hughes—was the most unusual of the harbor defenses. Military engineers had cut away the entire top of El Fraile Island down to the water-line and used the island as a foundation to build a reinforced concrete "battleship", 350 ft (110 m) long and 144 ft (44 m) wide, with exterior walls of concrete and steel 25–36 ft (7.6–11.0 m) thick. The top deck of this concrete battleship was 40 ft (12 m) above the low-water mark and had 20 ft (6.1 m) thick walls. Equipped with four 14-inch (356 mm) guns in armored turrets facing seaward, a secondary battery of four casemated 6-inch (152 mm) gunsguns, and two antiaircraft guns, the fort with its 200-man garrison was considered impregnable to attack.
And the 13,000++ USA and Filipino soldiers left on Corregidor with all those hardware and lots of military goodies were ran over and surrendered to 2,400++ Japs in three landings made by the Japs on the island.
And that Gen McArthur ran away from his troops in Corregidor for which he was awarded MOH for his glorious act of running away.
As for China at the time of the Sino Japanese war, China was defenseless.
China had little industry in China being raped and pillaged by Western powers all set to divide and dismembered her and selling opium to China prior to the Sino Japanese war from July 7, 1937, to September 2, 1945
And for that purpose, the Western Powers were not going to let China have the means to produce armaments which could be used to stop the West from enjoying what they could from China.
Second Sino-Japanese War - Wikipedia
Japanese had a very strong military and armaments , from the steel USA happily sold to her for that purpose, together with the oil . Going on until almost before Japan decided to attack Pearl harbour because the Japanese were very unhappy USA not selling to Japan as much steel and oil as they want to beat and loot China in the way the Japanese want to.
China ports were all taken by Japanese so nothing could get through and for that matter, USA was not going to do that as USA had this great friendship going on with Japan.
Until Japan attacked Pearl Harbour that USA decided perhaps USA needed to supply arms to China except USA main focus was to supply arms to Europe as China was a bastard child. China did not even get 1% of the armaments supplied to UK, Russia and other Allied forces in other theatres of war.
The much ballyhooed military lift over the Hump was a fucking joke as that primarily was to try to get fuel and bombs over to bases for USA planes to bomb Japan and not arms for China. And at that, the fuel required to fly over the hump, and to fly back meant only a pittance could be brought over.
Chinese had to take on 80% of the Japanese Armed strength in China itself and 20% of the Japanese in the Pacific fighting the Americans
From Jamie Wong answer to How powerful is the Chinese military?
As a matter of fact, a lot of PLA soldiers didn’t even have a rifle. For major battles, each soldier got 1 rifle, 100~200 bullets, and 2~3 grenades. As for the guerrillas who was fighting in the Japanese occupied ares, half of them didn’t even have a rifle or pistol. Each battle, 5 rounds were the standard equipment. Others had to use blades and spears.
[

↑ This picture shows the common situation of PLA guerrillas.
]

]↑ And this was already a major division, but in the tough area.[
]

↑ This is how the 8th route army looked like. It was the major division of PLA. Still no armored vehicle.[
]

[
E]This was how Chinese went into battle in 1941
Those Chinese lucky enough to have rifles would have five rounds for each rifle. The rest using swords and spears against Japanese machine guns, tanks and artillery.
Yet they fought and killed Japanese invaders.
Even though the Chinese had no experience with fighting, and Japanese very well armed and with enormous experience in war and killing, Chinese took them on. (so those that always harp and crow that Chinese got no experience, please remember this and take note)
And Chinese killed over 1.5 million Japanese soldiers. Chinese did it by strapping explosives to their bodies to rush at tanks and machine guns and Japanese concentration of troops in suicidal charges.
Except the chinese being chinese, never ever will call their charges as banzai charges.
This not only killed Japanese, this terrified them as to how Chinese with so few arms could take on the Japanese. This was when the Japanese copied the Chinese in Japanese Pacific war against USA.
Why should the Japanese use Banzai attacks on Chinese in China? Japanese got machine guns and artillery and tanks and planes to kill the Chinese without having to go Banzaiiing!
Japanese learned Kamikazi and Banzai attacks from Chinese.
From the Chinese who had little arms and no other choices to their killing of Japanese in China.
Chinese paid with 14 ++ million of their Chinese soldiers dying . And another 14++ million Chinese civilians slaughtered and murdered by the Japanese soldiers in attempts to terrorised and intimidate China into surrendering.
For the Americans it was very different in their later fight with Japanese.
USA did not have to strap explosives to their bodies like the Chinese soldiers to rush the Japanese.
USA had battleships with 16″ guns and planes and bombs and Ma Deuces and artillery , tanks flame throwers and unlimited ammo and kitchen sink to help them take on the remaining 20% of the Japanese on islands like Iwo Jima, Guadalcanal, Guam, Okinawa maybe taking out 200,000 Japanese troops in the entire Pacific islands campaigns.[
E]

[
]Now we look at how the Chinese fought when they had adequate arms.
Battle of Yenangyaung - Wikipedia
And in Burma, at the battle of Yenangyaung, almost 7,000 British soldiers, and 500 prisoners and civilians were encircled by an equal number of Japanese soldiers from the IJA 33rd Division at Yenangyaung and its oil field. The 33rd Division had cut the Magwe road between Slim's two divisions, who were now about 50 miles (80 km) apart.
General Sun instead led his 113th Regiment with only 1,121 men, of which only 800 were combat personnel, in the rescue mission.
British veteran expresses thanks to descendants of China Expeditionary Force
And those 800 chinese saved the Brits. And those 800 Chinks pulled the chestnuts of the 7,000 valiant brits out of the fucking fire and slaughtered the IJA 33rd Division.
In China, Chinese with kungfu and spears and swords and hardly any guns hold the Japs and fought the Japs killing 1.77 million of the Japs and wounding 1.9 million Japs with suicidal charges strapping explosives to take out Jap tanks and machine guns and artillery.
But Chinese when given adequate arms could fight far better than the Japs.
Imagine now if Chinese had been given sufficient arms in China to fight the fucking Japanese there in China!
There might not even be a fucking TORA TORA TORA at Pearl Harbour. And no Japanese in Pacific at all for USA Army and Marines to fight as Japs will all be in China and being fucked and killed by Chinese in China.[

at that time China was poor they had nothing to lose big heart to fight

now China is Rich and have everything to lose small heart cant fight

China wont send anything

 

[Muhammed45]

at that time China was poor they had nothing to lose big heart to fight

now China is Rich and have everything to lose small heart cant fight

China wont send anything

You sir, are talking about politicians.

PLA still is the same brave force that it used to be.

 

[WudangMaster]

Ukraine, he said, is “a serious counter-air environment and electronic warfare environment that Iran hasn’t really experienced before.” These drones, Mr. Knights added, “tend to have effect at first and then the shock effect wears off.”

My response to mr. knight: Akheh martikeh madar ghahbeh, Iran has been facing American electronic warfare & probing for 4 decades wtf are you talking about?! Also project 358 and shahed 136 and others are just as much cause for concern now for the foreign twats and their gas stations on the southern Persian Gulf as when they first appeared years ago.