Writings of Ben Gurion on Pakistan

[roadrunner]

Many of the progressive members would like Pakistan to have relations with Israel (mainly to counter India) but see any Indian relations with them as some sort of conspiracy!

Strange but not unusual, given the fascination of the Pakistani psyche with myths and conspiracy theories.

That's simply your own conspiracy. Relations with Israel to counter India? What a joke. Israel won't counter anything for Pakistan. That is an Indian conspiracy.

And the only conspiracy I'm seeing is Mumbai. There's good evidence for it.

 

[roadrunner]

I too would like to see the original source of this claim. My searches have turned up nothing so far. The only hits with references to this quote are fringe Pakistani blurbs heavy on propaganda and abysmally low on credibility. I think in order to actually initiate a meaningful discussion the source has to be validated and the article from where this quote was pulled has to be presented in its entirety.

Nonsense. It's not on any Pakistani "blurbs". It's reported in many non Pakistani websites. Are they all wrong?

 

[Vinod2070]

That's simply your own conspiracy. Relations with Israel to counter India? What a joke. Israel won't counter anything for Pakistan. That is an Indian conspiracy.

And the only conspiracy I'm seeing is Mumbai. There's good evidence for it.

Not really, you are seeing conspiracies all around you. From 9/11 to Obama's elections to Mumbai, the strange silence of the world media on the brilliant kalava theory, the international media and Kasab's father accepting the truth, UN banning the terror organizations, Pakistan arresting their leaders and freezing their accounts, everything is a conspiracy!

And your post doesn't make any sense. Try again.

 

[Kasrkin]

You're welcome to this opinion. But it's not correct, and has been discussed on another thread. If you'd like to discuss it further, post on that thread. West Pakistan in actual fact made Bengali one of the official languages prior to 1970, money allocation on education was spent more on West Pakistan, but then West Pakistan had less schools to begin with. Bengal was more developed under British rule. This alone justified more Pakistani government investment. If you include private investment, it's impossible to stand by the claim of a bias against the East Pakistanis in any way.

Which comes to what provoked East pakistan to split up. It was the propaganda blitz launched by Mujib that Bengalis were discrminated against, this in turn was given further impetus by external forces, presumably the Indians, and who knows who else.

Other than that let’s not forget that the Pakistani Army had essentially cleared the rebels from the country-side and the cities. It was the Indian Army that used PA’s altered disposition to invade the weakened East-Pakistan, so technically the Bengalis didn't win the civil war, if it wasn't for Indian ARMY (and I'm not even counting their decades long propaganda campaigns or the train loads of rebels they pumped into our country before the invasion) there would still have been a 2 wing-Pakistan. We were to blame ofcourse, but that doesn’t mean that Indian ambitions were not the primary reason it happened.

 

[roadrunner]

Not really, you are seeing conspiracies all around you. From 9/11 to Obama's elections to Mumbai, the strange silence of the world media on the brilliant kalava theory, the international media and Kasab's father accepting the truth, UN banning the terror organizations, Pakistan arresting their leaders and freezing their accounts, everything is a conspiracy!

And your post doesn't make any sense. Try again.

Let's stick to Ben Gurion. And mainstream Chinese and Pakistani media have picked up on the Kalava, as have many of the blogspots (which tend to provide more neutral information than the mainstream). The story of "Kasab's" father is just a story. And I don't know if 911 is a conspiracy or not. I have seen a lot of things about Mumbai that point to one though. From the Kalava to the Hindi speaking, to the lack of evidence sharing.

 

[Solomon2]

It's reported in many non Pakistani websites. Are they all wrong?

I traced it back six years to a rense.com post that referred to an article in the "Baluchistan Post", link now non-existent.

And yes, thousands of people and articles can be wrong where one person is right. At one point, Copernicus was the only European who dared say the Earth went around the Sun, rather than the other way 'round...

 

[GunMan]

Let's stick to Ben Gurion. And mainstream Chinese and Pakistani media have picked up on the Kalava, as have many of the blogspots (which tend to provide more neutral information than the mainstream). The story of "Kasab's" father is just a story. And I don't know if 911 is a conspiracy or not. I have seen a lot of things about Mumbai that point to one though. From the Kalava to the Hindi speaking, to the lack of evidence sharing.

Its sad that Chinese and Pakistani media have picked up on the Kalava,but missed the "Tilak" story.Only if u had gone through few indian news site ,u would have known about these SOB had drawn Tilaks on their foreheads to look like hindus.Its no coincidence or misperception that Kasab had kalava on his wrist ,but factually also correct and purely intentional in its sense.

According to Mumbai police, these terrorist had worn hindu symbols such as Kalava & Tilak to come across as hindus to avoid unwanted suspicion.In that way our pakistani and chinese friends are absolutely right.

But Sadly Kalava story ends there.With Kasab in custody feeling home sick and numerous other circumstacial evidence which are being probed with the active participation of FBI,sooner than later pakistani Govt will have to accept,pursue and arrest all possible pakistani leads with the terror attck.We have already seen some step taken by GOP in this regard.

You and other bloggers can always come around whenever its suitable for them.

 

[Captain03]

It's funny what sort of information can be gleaned off a white nationalist. But here's some, I'd like to see your comments about - anything, even regarding whether you think it's genuine or not.

“The world Zionist movement should not be neglectful of the dangers of Pakistan to it. And Pakistan now should be its first target, for this ideological State is a threat to our existence. And Pakistan, the whole of it, hates the Jews and loves the Arabs. “This lover of the Arabs is more dangerous to us than the Arabs themselves. For that matter, it is most essential for the world Zionism that it should now take immediate steps against Pakistan. “Whereas the inhabitants of the Indian peninsula are Hindus whose hearts have been full of hatred towards Muslims, therefore, India is the most important base for us to work there from against Pakistan. “It is essential that we exploit this base and strike and crush Pakistanis, enemies of Jews and Zionism, by all disguised and secret plans.”

-David Ben Gurion, the first Israeli Prime Minister.His words, as printed in the Jewish Chronicle,9 August 1967:

Do we have any Israelis here by any chance?

amazing post

 

[Solomon2]

London Jewish Chronicle Archive: link

Just type in "Pakistan" and choose "1967" and you'll see nothing like the quote turns up - and you'll see that the JC wasn't published on the alleged date. I think all other "Jewish Chronicle" newspapers are local ones devoted mostly to advertising, not politics.

This "quote" appears to be an outright fraud. Why keep repeating it?

 

[Vinod2070]

i am not a international-relations expert but relations between countries take place for each-others-mutual gain.

i would assume the same for the indian psyche!

That is true. I agree completely.

Indians don't claim Pakistan's relations with any country as a conspiracy. You do it for mutual gains and so do we.

The basic premise of this thread is that Indian relations with Israel are a conspiracy against Pakistan. I countered that by pointing out the relations of Muslim/Arab countries with Israel and also the fact that some people in Pakistan would themselves want to have relations with Israel.

Pakistan does not have to come in every single diplomatic calculus in the world. Those who assume so are deluding themselves and seeing ghosts where none exist.

It is simple really. India has no enmity with Israel. We support Palestinian nationhood and kept away from Israel for that for decades. It did not help the Palestinians one bit (as did the keeping away of most Muslim countries). There is no reason to permanently shun all relations on a single issue which you can't influence anyway by shunning them.

On the other hand both countries gain by establishing relations and India can play a more meaningful role as it can gain the trust of both parties.

 

[Vinod2070]

London Jewish Chronicle Archive: link

Just type in "Pakistan" and choose "1967" and you'll see nothing like the quote turns up - and you'll see that the JC wasn't published on the alleged date. I think all other "Jewish Chronicle" newspapers are local ones devoted mostly to advertising, not politics.

This "quote" appears to be an outright fraud. Why keep repeating it?

Since when have such niceties as the truth prevented some from repeating something that they would like to believe!

 

[roadrunner]

London Jewish Chronicle Archive: link

Just type in "Pakistan" and choose "1967" and you'll see nothing like the quote turns up - and you'll see that the JC wasn't published on the alleged date. I think all other "Jewish Chronicle" newspapers are local ones devoted mostly to advertising, not politics.

This "quote" appears to be an outright fraud. Why keep repeating it?

What makes you think it's the London Jewish Chronicle?

I don't know if the quote is true anyhow. I'm seeing why so many websites are reporting it. It might have been pulled, or it might have been entirely made up.

 

[Solomon2]

"What makes you think it's the London Jewish Chronicle?"

It is the only "Jewish Chronicle" of note. The others are just local U.S. advertising rags. Even if Ben-Gurion spoke to them, his words could have no impact in Israel.

"I don't know if the quote is true anyhow. I'm seeing why so many websites are reporting it. It might have been pulled -"

Interesting, you confess you don't know if it's true, then proceed as if it is. There was no article to be pulled if the JC wasn't published on the alleged date! Yet you may have hit something: what is the thinking behind quoting something, then alleging it was concealed afterward?

In Muslim cultures it seems to be important to portray crime or aggression against non-Muslims as a justifiable defensive response. I suppose a little fib like faking a quote would certainly help . The earliest versions of the "quote" always contain this preface:

If there is still any doubt as to the real intentions of Israel, then please see this statement issued by David Ben Gurion, the first Israeli Prime Minister. His words, as printed in the Jewish Chronicle, 9 August 1967, leave nothing to imagination:

So the avowed purpose of "citing" the "quote" is to establish beyond any doubt that Israel is Pakistan's enemy.

Think back, if you will, to those heady days of May, 2002 - the furthest back I've been able to trace the story, supposedly in the Baluchistan Post. Iraq had not yet been invaded, the Taliban and Al Qaeda had been tossed out of Afghanistan to hide in the NWFP, and it was Yassir Arafat who was stealing the Islamists' thunder by bombing Israeli civilians almost every day. What could be more natural for an Al-Qaeda seeking a new direction and renewed prominence than to attempt to compete with Arafat by shifting the struggle to Palestine and renewing its strength by drawing local Pakistani recruits into its ranks? The faked quote would thus be a necessary preliminary to recruitment, and if somebody happened to point out that there was no evidence of it, it could always be said that it was "concealed afterward".

After 2002, it seems the "quote" slept for quite a while, until July or September of this year. Perhaps it was revived then to provide justification for the upcoming attack upon Nachiman House? Certainly the "quote" was quick to appear afterward. I'm disappointed by how quickly it was seized upon by Pakistanis, and how nobody bothered to try to verify it until now. When one considers the gullibility of so many Pakistanis, don't you think it makes us ignorant Westerners look almost wise by comparison?

 

[Solomon2]

I am bhangee in disguise

****

I didn't post this. I just discovered today that A. Rahman is using my name to fake posts under my name. I do not know if he is the culprit this time.

 

[Energon]

Nonsense. It's not on any Pakistani "blurbs". It's reported in many non Pakistani websites. Are they all wrong?

Looks like it so far. It's usually not a very good sign when one has to scour bs websites to refer to quotes made by high profile heads of state.