With African market in the eye, JF-17 Thunder to roll in Morocco Air Show.

[MastanKhan]

Unfortunately North Africans will always go for French or Russian equipment. It is a great step and wondering if the aircraft flew there or were flown? It is one major distance to get there. multiple stops?

Hi,

You are correct---north africans---with the french influence in that region---would be tough to get in.

But I think if JF17 program creates a strong bond with south africa and Italy with this project----they will find ways to make a break through in this market.

 

[Quwa]

Hi,

You are correct---north africans---with the french influence in that region---would be tough to get in.

But I think if JF17 program creates a strong bond with south africa and Italy with this project----they will find ways to make a break through in this market.

There is some potential in North Africa, I can see Morocco showing interest in JF-17 as a means to replace its F-5 Tiger IIs and/or Mirage F-1s; Tunisia for F-5 Tiger II; Algeria for numerical fleet building and diversity; Egypt for F-7s.

The key for Pakistan would be to guarantee the transfer of marquee munitions such as 5th-gen HOBS AAM, ALCM, PGB, ARMs, etc, to prospective customers. If we can produce these various munitions under a paid license (e..g A-Darter, MAR-1, Umbani, etc) we can offer customers a single channel for procuring munitions and fighters. Of course, they can choose to engage the actual vendors as well.

 

[Kompromat]

I think this is an excellent idea.

There is some potential in North Africa, I can see Morocco showing interest in JF-17 as a means to replace its F-5 Tiger IIs and/or Mirage F-1s; Tunisia for F-5 Tiger II; Algeria for numerical fleet building and diversity; Egypt for F-7s.

The key for Pakistan would be to guarantee the transfer of marquee munitions such as 5th-gen HOBS AAM, ALCM, PGB, ARMs, etc, to prospective customers. If we can produce these various munitions under a paid license (e..g A-Darter, MAR-1, Umbani, etc) we can offer customers a single channel for procuring munitions and fighters. Of course, they can choose to engage the actual vendors as well.

 

[krash]

Unfortunately North Africans will always go for French or Russian equipment. It is a great step and wondering if the aircraft flew there or were flown? It is one major distance to get there. multiple stops?

Always flew in the cases before; Farnborough, Paris, Izmir, probably this time too. I believe the route to Paris was Pakistan -> Saudia -> Jordan -> Turkey -> France. Gives good marketing opportunities too.

 

[Thorough Pro]

Do you really think Tejas is a direct competition to Thunder? I don't, and I can't explain why.
A good salesman never sells his stuff like a hawker for everyone (including customers and competitors) to know everything specially price, he presents his stuff to each customer according to customers needs and requirements and quotes the price for that exact requirement, he doesn't announces it at 15 mil a pop or 1/3 of XYZ. Just show the capabilities, opportunities, modularity, scalability, flexibility and keep certain things for the initial stages and some for advanced stages of negotiations.

Hi,

Neither Singapore nor Bahrain air shows hold attraction for JF17----. Also paf may not have the funds to spare as well.

The Moroccan air show will indeed be good for the air force----. It will also bring in a large crowd to the show----.

By that time the JF17 team would have enough time to analyze the information they have gathered on Tejas and adjust their game plan and approach.

political influence has it's place but price comparison between Rafael and Thunder? a full Thunder squadron for 6 Raf's, 3 Thunder squadrons in the price of one Raf Squadron add to that operating, maintenance and armament cost savings

Hi,

You are correct---north africans---with the french influence in that region---would be tough to get in.

But I think if JF17 program creates a strong bond with south africa and Italy with this project----they will find ways to make a break through in this market.

 

[MastanKhan]

Do you really think Tejas is a direct competition to Thunder? I don't, and I can't explain why.
A good salesman never sells his stuff like a hawker for everyone (including customers and competitors) to know everything specially price, he presents his stuff to each customer according to customers needs and requirements and quotes the price for that exact requirement, he doesn't announces it at 15 mil a pop or 1/3 of XYZ. Just show the capabilities, opportunities, modularity, scalability, flexibility and keep certain things for the initial stages and some for advanced stages of negotiations.



political influence has it's place but price comparison between Rafael and Thunder? a full Thunder squadron for 6 Raf's, 3 Thunder squadrons in the price of one Raf Squadron add to that operating, maintenance and armament cost savings

Hi,

A high ends weapons system is like a car-----. It is on the buyer's frame of mind as to what they want to invest in---what makes them feel secure---it is cultural---it is ethnic---and it is a psychological factor as well amongst other things.

It also depends on the thought process of the procurer---. Now if the north african countries get over their romance with france and china----they will find the JF 17 the best buy for the bang----for their single engine aircraft needs.

There is no fear of sanctions---no hold back on weapons and weapons systems---the engine options are variable as well along with seating options---.

Pakistan should also offer to have the buyers pilots after training be deployed with pakistani pilots at local bases for a certain time period throughout the life cycle of the aircraft and pakistani pilots be deployed in buyer's country as well.

Now this is other than the support staff.

And you are right about the sales pitch-----basic 101 of car sales---sell yourself---because people buy from people---sell the product----because the product needs to meet and exceed their expectations---sell the place---we are going to stand with you and provide you service way beyond your expectations.

Make friends with the buyer---because people like to do business with people they know----build trust---people like to do business with people they can trust---listen to their needs and desires and acknowledge them---because the buyer needs to be affirmed that you are listening to them and have their BEST INTEREST at heart.

Build value----from minimal to the maximum----start from point zero---and go to the top step by a step---. The value perceived is the value of the aircraft----not the actual price----.

The least satisfied customers that I have ever had were those who got the best deals---paid the least amount of profit---they were never happy in the begining and never happy to the end---.

Price is the least concern in a manner for a nation which wants new frontline fighter aircraft. They want something that will make a difference for them---give them a feel of power and resource---.

Do you really think Tejas is a direct competition to Thunder? I don't, and I can't explain why.

Hi,

I will answer that question---. At this time---the tejas is not a competition for the JF 17----well---never say never---it may happen---some country may be dumb enough to do it----.

It is not even deployed in the air force of the nation that built----after going thru modification for 33 years---I would say that this aircraft may not have any room left for upgrades in the future---.

If I was to look for something---I would like to see the flight history and record of operations and maintenance in full deployment status---for at least 5 years.

But then many a nation may decide differently if lucrative financial packages are dropped in their laps.

 

[Genghis khan1]

JF-17 is looks pretty badass looking while flying, not so great parked. Tejas looks bit better while parked but quite funny in the air. I like Tejas take off in Bahrain Airshow. Straight solid up like jet suppose too. JF-17 is lacking strong engine, otherwise it will look even more kickass doing maneuvers.

 

[Tshering22]

Unfortunately North Africans will always go for French or Russian equipment. It is a great step and wondering if the aircraft flew there or were flown? It is one major distance to get there. multiple stops?

Not always possible.

There is always that one single break that a new entrant needs. China has been massively investing in north African oil and mineral reserves and has earned quite some goodwill replacing the French in the sphere of political mileage. Russian military equipment have been a trend but don't be surprised to see FC-1s flying along the Su-30s in Algeria or elsewhere.

The value proposition by FC-1 is quite remarkable.

While we Indians, Pakistanis and Chinese may bicker among each other, but it would be sensible to say that those who cannot afford $100 mil/unit Rafales or $80 mil/unit Sukhois, will go for these. And the market is huge.

 

[Alpha Fighter]

PAF has never showcased Thunder in any edition of Singapore Airshow and so was the case in BIAS. Main reason is that if we feel we have customers in any air show then we wud surely go there. We didnt go to BIAS because we already are engaged in much high profile Dubai airshow. May be we aint going to Singapore coz we already are showcasing Thunder in Zuhai. Also the fund availability for the air shows does matter alot.

Fund is not a problem , you already fortified half a million USD in recent air show, which shows you have ample of fund isn't?

 

[Cool_Soldier]

This is based on marketing strategy, where there is a possibility of finding customers, we should participate there with our product.African market has definitely potential to buy in small number.That will strengthen us.

 

[Quwa]

I think this is an excellent idea.

The incentives align. South Africa is looking to make in-roads against the incumbent players, and while that country has all of the right munitions (e.g. Denel Umbani, A-Darter, Raptor II and in-development Marlin BVRAAM), it doesn't have a platform which it can market from without dealing with the incumbents.

On the other hand, the JF-17 doesn't have a set of native origin munitions. Instead, it uses weapon systems from China, Brazil and (if A-Darter is acquired) South Africa.

South Africa and Pakistan could basically get into a commercial agreement where each party could market the goods of the other party. Denel could use the JF-17 as the poster-bird for its munitions (especially when facing developing country air forces), and the PAF can line-up and talk-up Denel munitions at every air show it attends.

To make things even smoother, Pakistan could license manufacture the Umbani, A-Darter, Marlin, an export-oriented ALCM (which would ideally double as an AShM), etc, and be a vertically integrated vendor.

Heck, I'd even try to set up an agreement with South Africa's Paramount Group where it could buy a few JF-17s for use as training aircraft for 'Top Gun Training Academy' for African air forces. It currently uses the Mirage F-1, but if the PAF can proliferate JF-17s across the continent, it could change that.

Overall, Pakistan would be able to achieve public and private sector defence ties unlike any other.

 

[Abba_Dabba_Jabba]

Can somebody please explain, if an air-show in Africa is very important because of the market potential of the JF-17 then why PAF went to Paris air show ? Even if they went there then why not Bahrain Air-show ? because the potential was there too, as many Arab country has big budget but who doesn't like a fighter with F-16's capability with less than half of its cost.

 

[Paksanity]

Can somebody please explain, if an air-show in Africa is very important because of the market potential of the JF-17 then why PAF went to Paris air show ? Even if they went there then why not Bahrain Air-show ? because the potential was there too, as many Arab country has big budget but who doesn't like a fighter with F-16's capability with less than half of its cost.

Bahrain is not where customers of fighters gather. They come at Dubai Airshow. Bahrain is mostly for family fun and transport aircraft show. Pakistan never sent JFT in this show nor intended this time. Paris is one of the most. Prestigious show on earth and most attended one. Whole world gathers there. It makes sense to showcase aircraft there.

Fund is not a problem , you already fortified half a million USD in recent air show, which shows you have ample of fund isn't?

Any proof of that? PAF shows its intent very early to attend an Airshow. We never participated in BIAS earlier nor we were going to.

 

[Curious_Guy]

Because they like American F-18s / 16s /15s or French Rafaels or European Typhoons as they have ample money

Can somebody please explain, if an air-show in Africa is very important because of the market potential of the JF-17 then why PAF went to Paris air show ? Even if they went there then why not Bahrain Air-show ? because the potential was there too, as many Arab country has big budget but who doesn't like a fighter with F-16's capability with less than half of its cost.

 

[Abba_Dabba_Jabba]

Because they like American F-18s / 16s /15s or French Rafaels or European Typhoons as they have ample money

But what about the numbers ? they only have either 2-3 squadrons of either EFT, F-18 or Rafale. Arab country can also be seen as a customers but, its very difficult to penetrate that market as the western countries have very strong lobby there plus we they have proved their weapons in middle east.

If Jf-17 or LCA doesn't participate in any war or proper exercise against a proven fighter jet, they will find it very difficult to sell them and both the countries will keep performing at air shows without any proper customer.