Will use KP's force -CM Mahmood Khan.

[Maula Jatt]

Historically Punjab's contribution in Pakistan's economy has been tremendous, naturally, being the largest ethnic group, you would expect that, if not, you would want to see more contribution. if Punjab were to be a separate country right now, it would be ranked in the top 10 most populous country in the world about the size of Russia.

I wasn't comparing with just its Pakistani counterpart I was saying it was the richest province/state in south Asia period till the late 80s after the Afghan war blowback things have not been what they used to be - true but even now it is still among top 2-3 states when competing with other noncoastal provinces/states(cause coastline areas are supposed to be rich due to their close excess to sea, their opportunity for growth is probably x10 more)

Yet the individual successes are no where close to a country like that.

good leadership is needed for that and fauji adventures need to be curbed- if not then not just one province 4-5 of us will continue to suffer and fall behind

More needs to be done. Most of the economy is agriculture which the British developed. I wish there were more people like Abdus Salam who btw a family member of mine had developed a scientific relationship with him. Rather than appreciating what he did for Pakistan and making Punjabis proud, people of Punjab disowned him and still as we speak people do inappropriate stuff with his grave in Jhang.

except for interior Sindh, he'd probably be treated the same everywhere in Pak or for that matter in most countries of ME too - sad but true

Like I said there is no such thing as Punjabi nationalism as if there was ever one, perhaps there would have been more political leaders.

cause its what 35-40% of the country, you won't have it in the first place unless a minority starts oppressing people, nor can the country really afford it

The only recognizable leaders were Zia ul Haq but like someone here mentioned he brought an influx of Afghan refugees and migrants so he can't be considered a Punjabi nationalist. The other recognizable heads of state of Punjabi origin were Chaudhary Shujat, Raja Pervez Ashraf, Yusuf Raza Gilani, and Shahid Khaqan Abbasi but they were very short lived and not independent to make their policies.

land was never blessed with the good leader of men throughout history despite its many qualities - I agree with this flaw

We Kashmiris are probably 1% of Pakistan's population yet we have a comparable number of scholars and artists. Obviously Dr. Alama Iqbal and Ghani Kashmiri are well known poet figure everyone knows from Persia to Spain, but we also had people like Dr. Mahbub ul Haq, whose plans are famous for developing modern South Korea and to have founded the HDI. If I start mentioning Pakistanis of Kashmiri origin, it would be a long list so I won't dwell too much on that...Btw I'm not a fan of biased journalists like Dr. Moed Peerzada, but again he is a Kashmiri and I respect that he is from my culture and that he is a doctor. Our differences of opinion doesn't change who we are. That's the beauty.

Braah.... "Kashmiris" of Punjab haha , they are considered baradari or a clan, not a group
literally more Punjabi in culture, language, and traditions than a lot of people, Kashmiri Punjabis are in majority in interior Lahore, - no one goes to the interior city to experience Srinagar they go to experience Punjabi culture, food etc
Sharif clan is considered Punjabi in both Punjab and outside Punjab, cause they follow the language, traditions etc
only distinction this baradari has is they live in urban Punjab because they were not allowed to own land, so, have been in urban areas for 100s of years unlike others who came recently from rural areas - this is literally all lol

 

[Mahabahu kaunteya]

Those hindus are punjabis only, they talk in Punjabi
Write in gurumukhi. Often Sikhs and Hindus marry especially khatri Sikhs etc .
And no punjab is a very small state in India, in 1966 states of Haryana and himachal were carved out from it.
Hindus are 41 percent , Sikhs are 56 percent

That's correct. The ones who came in the 18th or 19th century did come to escape famine. But no not everyone worked for zamidars. People like gullu butts exist not because of race but because of economic divide in the country. The gap between rich and poor is growing no matter who you are. Besides, there were also marriages between Punjabis and Kashmiris. A Kashmiri man marrying an arain woman would have children keep the Kashmiri surname and then them marrying a Punjabi would basically make them 3/4 Punjabi. This is why I said Kashmiris of Punjab are a little different. So you have to trace who is a real Kashmiri and who is not. We already know Mirpuirs are fake Kashmiris. This subject is very ambiguous and long so lets not go there.

I'm not suggesting Punjabis start becoming nationalists like other ethnic groups. The only thing we hope is at least they speak their language and do not neglect their history under pressure of others, if indeed there is one. Like I said the Sikhs are better in keeping their traditions, despite living in a hindu and multi-ethnic dominated state There is more to learn from them. Pakistan's future is not creating provinces on ethnic lines but instead creating administrations within provinces. That will do more good.

 

[M.AsfandYar]

I wasn't comparing with just its Pakistani counterpart I was saying it was the richest province/state in south Asia period till the late 80s after the Afghan war blowback things have not been what they used to be - true but even now it is still among top 2-3 states when competing with other noncoastal provinces/states(cause coastline areas are supposed to be rich due to their close excess to sea, their opportunity for growth is probably x10 more)

good leadership is needed for that and fauji adventures need to be curbed- if not then not just one province 4-5 of us will continue to suffer and fall behind

except for interior Sindh, he'd probably be treated the same everywhere in Pak or for that matter in most countries of ME too - sad but true

cause its what 35-40% of the country, you won't have it in the first place unless a minority starts oppressing people, nor can the country really afford it

land was never blessed with the good leader of men throughout history despite its many qualities - I agree with this flaw

Braah.... "Kashmiris" of Punjab haha , they are considered baradari or a clan, not a group
literally more Punjabi in culture, language, and traditions than a lot of people, Kashmiri Punjabis are in majority in interior Lahore, - no one goes to the interior city to experience Srinagar they go to experience Punjabi culture, food etc
Sharif clan is considered Punjabi in both Punjab and outside Punjab, cause they follow the language, traditions etc
only distinction this baradari has is they live in urban Punjab because they were not allowed to own land, so, have been in urban areas for 100s of years unlike others who came recently from rural areas - this is literally all lol
@Taimur Khurram

Kashmiri punjabis are basically Punjabis Full stop, nothing different about them

 

[fisher1]

This useless waste of oxygen never did anything good for KP in 4 years

but now is going to abuse his power to save his master. These are the real slaves, slaves of Imran Khan.

 

[AgnosticIndian]

we don't follow castes- its class

come on dude. it's game effing groups, Jats, Rajputs, Mirasis with the same name, origins, stereotypes, attitudes etc and you repeat the absurdity that at one side of the border it's a caste and on the other side it's clan. do you really believe Rajput is not a caste? if so, there are no castes in India either. it never existed. do you really think repeating this falsity again and again will change the ground realities with the sheer power of narrative to make Pakistan different? it isn't helping anyone I think.

if you're going to keep repeating that absurdity in every thread, you can't complain that people aren't replying to it in the dedicated thread or whatever.

 

[AgnosticIndian]

What is the difference in caste and clan? Aren't both words used in same meaning?

maybe in some places. here, clan is often a subdivision of caste, used to mean extended family sometimes or often as a translation of "gotra". of course Sainthood is playing wordgames by denying that Pakistan has caste, I don't think he himself believes his position is intellectually tenable.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Well, well IK has let the cat out of the bag and hinted at where we are headed if things are not resolved. Pakistan again is at where it was on the eve of 1971.

PTI Chairman Imran Khan on Wednesday admitted he did not enjoy absolute power as the prime minister, indicating that the actual centres of power in the country lay elsewhere and "everyone knows where that is."

"We will see if they allow us to go towards elections through legal and constitutional means otherwise this country will go towards civil war."

Country to head towards civil war if elections not announced: Imran Khan

Says everyone knows where the real power lies, warns country will head towards "suicide" if establishment doesn't make right call.

www.dawn.com

 

[Pak Nationalist]

Allow me to reconfigure your question that is more apt. Do you want dynastic mafia dictatorship? Evil Eyes Sanaula is nothing but a low life thug acting as Interior Minister and that on a government that is cobble together with just two or three majority.

PTI is the largest party with the largest mandate. Yet we have thug who is now threatening everybody. Did not PPP, Diesel etc not have their 'long marches' only few months ago. Did PTI govdernment use brute force of that state to beat and cudgel the participants?

PTI's "mandate" was as engineered as this coalition government that has been cobbled together. Both are the handiworks of establishment that remain the eternal enemy of Pakistan's prosperity, stability (political and economic which stems from political stability), and lastly but more importantly, national security, by shifting focus from core responsibilities when the country's existence is at stake.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

PTI's "mandate" was as engineered as this coalition government that has been cobbled together. Both are the handiworks of establishment that remain the eternal enemy of Pakistan's prosperity, stability (political and economic which stems from political stability), and lastly but more importantly, national security, by shifting focus from core responsibilities when the country's existence is at stake.

I accept 100% what you said - something i knew but did not or chose not to accept as recent as just few months ago. The real problem in Pakistan is GHQ. This nest of vipers is bigger problem then Bilawal House or Raiwind and that is saying something.

I am not particularly fussy of how a country is run, be it monarchy [UAE style], Kemalist Military [Turkey], one party dictatorship [China] or UK style democracy. What is more important is the result or outcome. Does the system deliver?

Clearly Kemalist Military in Turkey did a great job by creating a highling unified state tied to Turkish nationalism. The CCP dictatoeship has done awesome job in China. I am no fan of UAE but I accept that their ruling family have done a great job making a modern state out of few camel jockeys.

Pakistani military would be excused if not lauded if they also had done a good job but look at the state of Pakistan? After 70 years it's pathetic. A joke. Even those swamp dwellers in Bangladesh have overtaken us.

Just look at the recent events. Forget about be a PTI supporter. Forget about be IK cultist. I would like to ask Bajwa why the regime change? Why could you not fcukin have held out for another year and let the Pakistani electorate decide IK's fate? Why the regine change? And even more crucial what have you deliverd to the country.

Economy in tailspin. A murderer as Interior Minister in charge law enforcement? Half of cabint including PM facing criminal charges. How the fcuk is this better then pre regime change? Look at the political storm the country faces?

Why? What for?

 

[Pak Nationalist]

I accept 100% what you said - something i knew but did not or chose not to accept as recent as just few months ago. The real problem in Pakistan is GHQ. This nest of vipers is bigger problem then Bilawal House or Raiwind and that is saying something.

I am not particularly fussy of how a country is run, be it monarchy [UAE style], Kemalist Military [Turkey], one party dictatorship [China] or UK style democracy. What is more important is the result or outcome. Does the system deliver?

Clearly Kemalist Military in Turkey did a great job by creating a highling unified state tied to Turkish nationalism. The CCP dictatoeship has done awesome job in China. I am no fan of UAE but I accept that their ruling family have done a great job making a modern state out of few camel jockeys.

Pakistani military would be excused if not lauded if they also had done a good job but look at the state of Pakistan? After 70 years it's pathetic. A joke. Even those swamp dwellers in Bangladesh have overtaken us.

Just look at the recent events. Forget about be a PTI supporter. Forget about be IK cultist. I would like to ask Bajwa why the regime change? Why could you not fcukin have held out for another year and let the Pakistani electorate decide IK's fate? Why the regine change? And even more crucial what have you deliverd to the country.

Economy in tailspin. A murderer as Interior Minister in charge law enforcement? Half of cabint including PM facing criminal charges. How the fcuk is this better then pre regime change? Look at the political storm the country faces?

Why? What for?

I am glad people are finally beginning to see "how" Pakistan has been hollowed out by a power-hungry cabal of generals who have hijacked the state. I also agree with what you have said regards to the system of governance. I would however add that the worst democracy still has the seeds for uplifting societies. Bangladesh is a prime example where political stability and a facade of democracy (albeit a corrupt one at that) have been able to lift one of the poorest nations on the face of the Earth. Political stability could deliver if we are not already too late and for that to crystallize the biggest impediment in its path that is a politicized institution of land armed forces has to be de-politicized. It is a pity that the dharna IK is so fond of is not given at gate # 4 of GHQ which is the fasaad ki jarh in our beloved country!

I would also like to note here that a similar political realization was sweeping Pakistan in the last Musharraf days when Musharraf was forced to step down by Kyani and the military went back to the barracks based on the record anti-military sentiment, but our institutions lose their institutional memory and the same history is repeated all over again. This is why making examples out of political generals is so vital. That is not to be when IK calls political gernails power brokers and other politicians break deals with these power-hungry traitors of the constitution of Pakistan to get to nominal (IK too accepted that he was a mere puppet) power.

 

[RealNapster]

This useless waste of oxygen never did anything good for KP in 4 years

but now is going to abuse his power to save his master. These are the real slaves, slaves of Imran Khan.

Yes. Exactly. Rela slaves these idiots. Finally someone spoke the writing on the wall.


Otherwise people were considering those PMLN supporters slaves who even after multiple cases of corruption and excessive use of power were still supporting PMLN. Even after "mere London to Kia Pakistan me b property nu Hy" and "Alhamdulillah wo flats hamary Hy". Alhamdulillah maqsood chapraasi Kay account me paisy business transactions Hy.

Kia chutye Hy ye sab na, in cheezo ko ghulaami maan rahy thy. Thanks again. You clarified ghulaami for us.

 

[hydrabadi_arab]

Social media doesn't represent everyone. Besides how many people in Pakistan can read and write? Last time I checked the literacy rate was hovering around 55% and of that percentage not everyone uses social media or has access to internet. So I would say let the trolls do what they do because majority of people have other everyday issues. As for myself, no, I'm not suggesting any sort of nationalism, at least not on political level. I'm pretty clear politics should be separated from culture. Politics has become as addictive to people as heroin. The basic norms of society our religion has taught us and cultural traditions that have continued for decades defines who we are.

This basic norms and cultural traditions is goes for all, Punjabis cannot be expected to held them in the name of religion as they have done since 1947 while rest go their ways in ethnic hatred.

You was mocking Mirpuris even though they picked up arms and freed themselves from Dogra rule and joined Pakistan. But problem is they joined as disputed territory hence the confusion with name which I believe is time to let go along with Pakistan claim on IoK. Meanwhile Kashmiris from valley laid down in front of Indians and joined India as Pakistan irregular forces were trying to capture Srinagar. So Kashmiris and Mirpuris don't have similar values at all, one actually have brain cells to differentiate between friend and enemy. One actually have guts to pickup arms and fight for their freedom when opportunity come. The other now is open prison where neither men or their women honour is safe from Indian army.

 

[Mirzali Khan]

Those who dont learn from history become part of history itself. Our establishment has learnt nothing and their arrogance is astounding. People who are equating KPK with Baluchistan know nothing about KPK. The dynamics and social realties are totally different with lot of social cohesion amongst them. Unlike Baluchistan if KPK blows up with anti Pakistan sentiment there will be nothing our army can do to stop it.

I am Pashtun from Balochistan (Quetta), the Pashtuns of KPK (especially Khyber, Swat, Peshawar Valley) are very very very pro-Pak.

If this really lights up and anti Pakistan sentiment spreads to those areas. Things will get very very rough.

 

[Mirzali Khan]

Baluchistan have equal population of Baluchis and Pashtoon's. This speaks alot. Yet these is only Hazara community issue (which is equally bad) , but no Pashtoon Vs Baluchi tussle.

Pashtuns are majority in Balochistan now.

 

[Mirzali Khan]

35 percent

No way lmfaooo, we are the majority.