Will Turkey be added to European list of undemocratic countries?

[BATMAN]

Will Turkey be added to European list of undemocratic countries?
While various European countries have canceled pro-referendum rallies organized by Turkish politicians, the Monitoring Committee of the Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe has called for Turkey to be added to its list of countries considered undemocratic.
http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/ori...democracy-purge-europe-yildirim-akp-nazi.html

In a further blow to Turkey’s spotty global image, the Monitoring Committee of the Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe (PACE) called March 8 for Turkey to come under its formal scrutiny, a status reserved for members that are deemed to be backsliding on democracy. Nine countries, including Armenia, Azerbaijan, Ukraine and Russia are currently on that hook.

In a report statement the Strasbourg-based body, of which Turkey is a founding member, said, “Eight months after the [July 15] failed coup and the declaration of a state of emergency, the Monitoring Committee is concerned to note that there has been a serious deterioration of the functioning of democratic institutions in the country.”

A Final decision on Turkey's status is set to be made in April.

PACE cited the tidal wave of purges that have engulfed the country, with a quarter of all judges and prosecutors, a tenth of the police force, 30% of diplomats and 5,000 academics sacked without legal recourse. It also expressed alarm over widespread detentions of journalists and the lifting of immunity of 154 members of parliament.

The pro-Kurdish Peoples’ Democractic Party is the worst hit, as practically all of its parliamentarians were stripped of their immunity and at least 10 of them, including co-chairs Figen Yuksekdag (she lost her seat altogether) and Selahattin Demirtas, are in jail.

“The committee's decision should be a wake-up call for members of the ruling Justice and Development Party to start questioning President [Recep Tayyip] Erdogan's heavy-handed tactics and strangling of Turkish democracy and rule of law,” said Aykan Erdemir, a senior fellow at the Foundation for Defense of Democracies and a former member of parliament for the main opposition Republican People’s Party.

He told Al-Monitor, “It took Turkey 24 years to repair the damage of the brutal coup d'etat of 1980, and PACE closed Turkey's earlier monitoring process only in 2004. Thirteen years after that positive decision, it is sad to see Turkey's wasting of more than two decades of democratization efforts and backtracking to the repression of the 1980 junta."

The proposed downgrading of Turkey’s status came as German Chancellor Angela Merkel warned today that Turkey’s approach to democracy and the rule of law “are deeply problematic” to the country’s future cooperation with the European Union.

Since 2005, Turkey has been in formal talks for full membership in the European bloc, but the talks have hit a wall over the divided island of Cyprus, an array of reforms that Turkey has failed to deliver on and, above all, over the EU’s own resistance to admitting a large Muslim country.

Merkel also took aim at Erdogan’s weekend salvos that Germany was reliving its "Nazi" past, saying these were “completely out of hand.” Erdogan's comments were in response to a decision by the German authorities to cancel rallies in Cologne and Gaggenau in support of Erdogan’s proposed super-presidency due to worries about overcrowding. “I thought that Nazism was over in Germany, but it turns out that it is still going on,” Erdogan charged.

Erdogan’s drive to formalize the sweeping powers that he already exercises in a planned April 16 referendum are a matter of concern, the PACE Monitoring Committee said. “In light of the established violations of human rights under the state of emergency,” the committee urged Turkey to lift the state of emergency “as soon as possible, halt the publication of decree-laws which bypass parliamentary procedure, and to release all the detained parliamentarians and journalists pending trial, unless convicted."

But Turkish Prime Minister Binali Yildirim told a group of foreign reporters today that this would be extended beyond its April 19 expiration date. “It is certain at this point that it will be extended for another three months,” Yildirim said. “Of course it will not continue eternally,” he added. “We’ve taken care of the situation to a large extent.”

What is your problem ?

 

[NakedLunch]

Are you kidding me brother? Democracy is not a western definition, it is a type of governance practiced by the last prophet himself.

We are not mindless robots following what's the least "western", that's stupid. The west has done a lot-more then us recently, we should be taking notes not complaining and whining about long dead empires.

Western Democracy? Are you serious? The Sovereignty of the People is not acceptable in Islam. Only the Sovereignty of Allah and his Rasool are valid. Is it acceptable for a Democracy to declare that a man and a man can marry? We are Muslims. We are men, we led the World for millenia under the servants of Allah whether they were Arabs or Turks. Islam holds aloft the sovereignty of Allah only. Not kafir degenerates who think that modern Western indulgences are valid and supreme.

 

[EgyptianAmerican]

Western Democracy? Are you serious? The Sovereignty of the People is not acceptable in Islam. Only the Sovereignty of Allah and his Rasool are valid. Is it acceptable for a Democracy to declare that a man and a man can marry? We are Muslims. We are men, we led the World for millenia under the servants of Allah whether they were Arabs or Turks. Islam holds aloft the sovereignty of Allah only. Not kafir degenerates who think that modern Western indulgences are valid and supreme.

 

[NakedLunch]

Astaghfirullah? Limatha? What did I say to repent for?

 

[EgyptianAmerican]

Astaghfirullah? Limatha? What did I say to repent for?

The Sovereignty of the People is not acceptable in Islam.

kafir degenerates

 

[NakedLunch]

That was really clever. I mean seriously clever. What do you or the culture you shill for hope to achieve by this? LOL! The truth cant be subverted by clever verbal masturbation. It doesnt work, ya akhi. Tafham?

 

[EgyptianAmerican]

the culture you shill for

Western culture used to be OUR culture brother. Why do you think we grew so advanced and made such progress in a short amount of time? It IS our culture brother, but we have disowned it and let the west adopt it. It's about time we got it back.

 

[NakedLunch]

Western culture used to be OUR culture brother. Why do you think we grew so advanced and made such progress in a short amount of time? It IS our culture brother, but we have disowned it and let the west adopt it. It's about time we got it back.

Akhi, our culture comes from the Sunnah and the Quran. If it is there it is valid and if it isnt then it is not. There are many schools of thought, I agree. But what is happening now is a wholesale slaughter of our values. Western values rely on atheism, pure material rationalism, Islam relies on the Sovereign deity we call Allah and His revelations. The West stole from us in the Renaissance/Enlightenment but that is all we have in common. They departed from us when they decided God was an arbitrary and abstract concept.

 

[xenon54 out]

Akhi, our culture comes from the Sunnah and the Quran. If it is there it is valid and if it isnt then it is not. There are many schools of thought, I agree. But what is happening now is a wholesale slaughter of our values. Western values rely on atheism, pure material rationalism, Islam relies on the Sovereign deity we call Allah and His revelations. The West stole from us in the Renaissance/Enlightenment but that is all we have in common. They departed from us when they decided God was an arbitrary and abstract concept.

One of the major reasons for Ottomans success was its numerous Christians in its army and politics, the simplest exsample is the cannon maker whose Cannons bombarded Constantinoples walls was a Hungarian Christian from todays Romania.

Orban

 

[NakedLunch]

One of the major reasons for Ottomans success was its numerous Christians in its army and politics, the simplest exsample is the cannon maker whose Cannons bombarded Constantinoples walls was a Hungarian Christian from todays Romania.

Orban

That is good. It is an example that Muslims should not discriminate. Haq is haq, Muslim or otherwise. But the major successes of the Ottomans was because they were the jaish of Rasool Allah. We were not a Christian army. They were the Crusaders and they literally ate babies on their way to Jerusalem.

 

[Deliorman]

Waste is a sin , but so is judging by that which has not been revealed by Allah. You know brother, the Muslim world was much more stable and progressive when the Ottomans were leading the Muslim World. We are in darkness. Muslims need a leader. Turkey is my choice.

Muslims don't need a Khalif leading them or a country to rule them all. They just need to be united and forgiving of each other. They need some good education, they need to work more, they need to produce something useful for themselves and for their countries. We need to finaly start living in the 21st century like civilised people, we need to embrace science and knowledge because only that way our countries will grow bigger and stronger.
Muslims need to be lead by people who are not corrupt and hungry for money and power and who are ready to even sell their own mothers for a bunch of dollars in an off shore bank account... Politicians who then talk about how good of a Muslims they are after doing it. Instead of building more mosques and feeding more loyal leeches the one who is a real Great leader will try to build more schools and universities, more useful infrastructure. To employ more and better teachers, to invest in science and education. Invest in your own future and your own people with creating a better healtcare system for them, give them jobs and security. Those are just the basic stuff a man who loves his nation will try to do.

The Muslim world has a lot of problems to solve but if we don't change our mentality we will continue to be the laughing stock of the World.

 

[EgyptianAmerican]

Muslims don't need a Khalif leading them or a country to rule them all. They just need to be united and forgiving of each other. They need some good education, they need to work more, they need to produce something useful for themselves and for their countries. We need to finaly start living in the 21st century like civilised people, we need to embrace science and knowledge because only that way our countries will grow bigger and stronger.
Muslims need to be lead by people who are not corrupt and hungry for money and power and who are ready to even sell their own mothers for a bunch of dollars in an off shore bank account... Politicians who then talk about how good of a Muslims they are after doing it. Instead of building more mosques and feeding more loyal leeches the one who is a real Great leader will try to build more schools and universities, more useful infrastructure. To employ more and better teachers, to invest in science and education. Invest in your own future and your own people with creating a better healtcare system for them, give them jobs and security. Those are just the basic stuff a man who loves his nation will try to do.

The Muslim world has a lot of problems to solve but if we don't change our mentality we will continue to be the laughing stock of the World.

In order to do that you would need to remove all the Autocrats and dictators, good luck with that though. Autocrats never give up their thrones easily.

 

[xenon54 out]

Muslims don't need a Khalif leading them or a country to rule them all. They just need to be united and forgiving of each other. They need some good education, they need to work more, they need to produce something useful for themselves and for their countries. We need to finaly start living in the 21st century like civilised people, we need to embrace science and knowledge because only that way our countries will grow bigger and stronger.
Muslims need to be lead by people who are not corrupt and hungry for money and power and who are ready to even sell their own mothers for a bunch of dollars in an off shore bank account... Politicians who then talk about how good of a Muslims they are after doing it. Instead of building more mosques and feeding more loyal leeches the one who is a real Great leader will try to build more schools and universities, more useful infrastructure. To employ more and better teachers, to invest in science and education. Invest in your own future and your own people with creating a better healtcare system for them, give them jobs and security. Those are just the basic stuff a man who loves his nation will try to do.

The Muslim world has a lot of problems to solve but if we don't change our mentality we will continue to be the laughing stock of the World.

Period.

 

[Brutas]

I disagree.
Despite all the problems right now, I still think Turkey's future lies with Europe and the West.

If you look at Turkey's history over the course of hundreds of years, you will notice that Turkey has been gradually moving westward in terms of culture, politics and economics.

People mistakenly think that Ataturk was the person who steered Turkey towards the West. In fact, Turkey has been steering westwards since Ottoman times. You can trace it all the way back to the 1600s. The process intensified during the Tanzimat era in the 1800s and was culminated when Ataturk came to power in the 1920s.

So, despite all the internal problems going on in Turkey today, I think these problems will eventually be overcome in the coming decade or so.

Turkey will eventually join the European Union and complete its integration with the West. It's not a question of if but when. It probably has to go through a democracy crisis, but it'll emerge better after it's all over.

As for economics, geography is destiny and Turkey's economy will likely remain tied to Europe for a very long time to come.

There's a huge, unstable landmass between Turkey and the economies of the Far East. Moreover, the economies of the Far East are export-driven economies. Their economies are centered on manufacturing goods that they end up selling to consumer societies in the West. The Far East won't buy Turkish goods. The Far Eastern economies are mainly interested in importing energy from resource-rich countries, which Turkey isn't.

As for the Caucasus countries, Turkey won't gain much from that region. Even Azerbaijan is running out of oil these days.

Turkey's main economic partners will continue to be Germany and other countries of the EU, which is exactly why I don't take any of the recent diplomatic spats between the Germans and Turks seriously because I know that economics trumps politics at the end of the day.

Central Asia is not far East. Apart from Germany, Turkey has flourishing trade with these newly independent greenfield countries. Trade with Iran, Azerbaijan, Georgia is booming as well. Same goes for Russia(once Putin lifts sanctions). So is with countries in Balkans. I Don't think Turks are that foolish to put all their eggs in one basket (EU). End of the day, economy dictates politics not vice versa.

And no EU will never grant Turkey full membership, period. May allow to be as a preferential trade partner but not a member. If Albania-Bosnia-Kosovo-Turkey is allowed nearly 80 million Muslims will become part of EU. That is the issue for all center and far right parties not economy. Politics was and still is still based on identity not utopian vision of a grand free market. Brexit says it all !

 

[Saho]

And no EU will never grant Turkey full membership, period. May allow to be as a preferential trade partner but not a member. If Albania-Bosnia-Kosovo-Turkey is allowed nearly 80 million Muslims will become part of EU. That is the issue for all center and far right parties not economy. Politics was and still is still based on identity not utopian vision of a grand free market. Brexit says it all !

Very true, EU is a Christian Union so Turkey will never join.