Will Turkey be added to European list of undemocratic countries?

[Zulkarneyn]

The video says previous goverments wasted money on statues but is silent about the waste today which is much bigger.
Besides i have never attacked you personally, also not in my previous post, dont get defensive.

I know you haven't, i've just gotten use to slander from certain members

 

[EgyptianAmerican]

Here a comparison of Religion ministry budget to others:

1.8 times larger than the budget allocated to the Ministry of Health.
1.9 times larger than the budget allocated to the Ministry of Industry, Science and Technology.
2.4 times larger than the budget allocated to the Ministry of Environment and Urban Planning.
2.5 times larger than the budget allocated to the Ministry of Culture and Tourism.
2.9 times larger than the budget allocated to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs.
3.4 times larger than the budget allocated to the Ministry of Economy.
3.8 times larger than the budget of the Ministry of Development.
4.6 times larger than the budget allocated to MIT – Secret Services.
5,0 times larger than the budget allocated to the Department of Emergency and Disaster Management.
7.7 times larger than the budget allocated to the Ministry of Energy and Natural Resources.
9.1 times larger than the budget allocated to the Ministry of Customs and Trade.
10.7 times greater than the budget allocated to Coast Guard.
21.6 times greater than the budget allocated to the Ministry of the European Union.
242 times larger than the budget for the National Security Council.
268 times more important than the budget allocated to the Ministry of Public Employee.”

Why so much? How many mosques are you guys running?

 

[NakedLunch]

LOL! What kind of childish question is this? Turkey is Turkey, we Pakistanis dont give a damn whether Turkey is democratic or not. Who has the right to pass judgement on Turkiye? We follow Turkey. They defended Al Quds for 1000 years. Screw everyone else. Turkey is Turkey, democratic or not.

 

[xenon54 out]

Why so much? How many mosques are you guys running?

80'000 or something, its not uncommon that a village of 2'000 people has two Mosques, the Mosques in Turkey are empty most of the time, only Eid and Friday prayers are filling the mosques to a reasonable number (not everywhere).

The amount of wasted money is insane while the schools have 40-50 students per class, my Cousins in Istanbul had shifts, one was going at morning the other after noon because the school was over capacity, how Islamic is that?

 

[NakedLunch]

Why so much? How many mosques are you guys running?

How many mosques you run in Egypt? Walahi ya akhi, you should stop trying to be so Western. What did you ever get out if that?

 

[xenon54 out]

How many mosques you run in Egypt? Walahi ya akhi, you should stop trying to be so Western. What did you ever get out if that?

Dont get emotional because its about religion, isnt waste a sin in Islam?

 

[NakedLunch]

Dont get emotional because its about religion, isnt waste a sin in Islam?

Waste is a sin , but so is judging by that which has not been revealed by Allah. You know brother, the Muslim world was much more stable and progressive when the Ottomans were leading the Muslim World. We are in darkness. Muslims need a leader. Turkey is my choice.

 

[EgyptianAmerican]

80'000 or something, its not uncommon that a village of 2'000 people has two Mosques, the Mosques in Turkey are empty most of the time, only Eid and Friday prayers are filling the mosques to a reasonable number (not everywhere).
The amount of wasted money is insane while the schools have 40-50 students per class, my Cousins in Istanbul had shifts, one was going at morning the other after noon because the school was over capacity, how Islamic is that?

That is absolutely ridiculous...


You guys should do something about that. You are right it isn't very Islamic either.

How many mosques you run in Egypt? Walahi ya akhi, you should stop trying to be so Western. What did you ever get out if that?

Not 80,000 certainly, also wanting money to not be spent on Mosques is not "western" It's common sense.

"And give the relative his right, and [also] the poor and the traveler, and do not spend wastefully. Indeed, the wasteful are brothers of the devils, and ever has Satan been to his Lord ungrateful" (Quran 17:26-27).

"And [they are] those who, when they spend, do so not excessively but are ever, between that, justly moderate" (Quran 25:67).


Money would be better spent on Education which is something Islamic.

The Prophet of Islam (peace be upon him) has also emphasized the importance of seeking knowledge in different ways:

(a) Time: "Seek knowledge from the cradle to the grave."

(b) Place: "Seek knowledge even if it is far as China."

(c) Gender: "Seeking of knowledge is a duty of every Muslim"

"Wisdom is the lost property of the believer, he should take it even if finds it in the mouth of a mushrik."

 

[NakedLunch]

That is absolutely ridiculous...


You guys should do something about that. You are right it isn't very Islamic either.



Not 80,000 certainly, also wanting money to not be spent on Mosques is not "western" It's common sense.

"And give the relative his right, and [also] the poor and the traveler, and do not spend wastefully. Indeed, the wasteful are brothers of the devils, and ever has Satan been to his Lord ungrateful" (Quran 17:26-27).

"And [they are] those who, when they spend, do so not excessively but are ever, between that, justly moderate" (Quran 25:67).


Money would be better spent on Education which is something Islamic.

The Prophet of Islam (peace be upon him) has also emphasized the importance of seeking knowledge in different ways:

(a) Time: "Seek knowledge from the cradle to the grave."

(b) Place: "Seek knowledge even if it is far as China."

(c) Gender: "Seeking of knowledge is a duty of every Muslim"

"Wisdom is the lost property of the believer, he should take it even if finds it in the mouth of a mushrik."

As a Pakistani Muslim I want what every other Muslim wants. The Supremacy of the laws of Allah and his Rasool. We need leadership in the Muslim world. I dont care who it is. Turkey, Egypt Pakistan or Nigeria. Islam is Islam and Muslims are Muslims. Who cares about Democracy? What does that even mean? Our Palestinian brothers and sisters were safe until the Ottomans were relegated to the dustbin of history. Look at what is happening since then? Kus um al Yahood. We have been ruined! Let the Ottomans come back. They had the balls to lead us.

 

[xenon54 out]

Waste is a sin , but so is judging by that which has not been revealed by Allah. You know brother, the Muslim world was much more stable and progressive when the Ottomans were leading the Muslim World. We are in darkness. Muslims need a leader. Turkey is my choice.

Ok lets do the math.

-80'000 mosques in a 80 million country means 1 Mosque per 1000 residents.

-Lets say a avarage Mosques has a capacity of 2000 people, thats already double the capacity of whole population.

-But we are not done yet, now lets take away Women and Children who rarely go to Mosque which is way more than half of the population but lets say half for easier calculation.

-Previous surveys shoved that in 2015 15 million people went to friday prayers (peak times in mosques) thats less than half of male population in the country (40 million).

Or in short 80'000x2000=160'000'000 capacity for 15'000'000 people more than 10 times of the capacity for peak times.

Now thats my own underestimated calculation, according to diyanet there are roughly 1 Mosque per 880 residents, numbers might vary but in any case we see clearly the amount of wasted money.

 

[EgyptianAmerican]

As a Pakistani Muslim I want what every other Muslim wants. The Supremacy of the laws of Allah and his Rasool. We need leadership in the Muslim world. I dont care who it is. Turkey, Egypt Pakistan or Nigeria. Islam is Islam and Muslims are Muslims. Who cares about Democracy? What does that even mean? Our Palestinian brothers and sisters were safe until the Ottomans were relegated to the dustbin of history. Look at what is happening since then? Kus um al Yahood. We have been ruined! Let the Ottomans come back. They had the balls to lead us.

Who cares about democracy?

Shura (Arabic: شورى shūrā) is an Arabic word for "consultation". The Quran and the Prophet Muhammad encourage Muslims to decide their affairs in consultation with those who will be affected by that decision.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shura

Many contemporary Muslims have compared the concept of Shura to the principles of western parliamentary democracy. For example:

What is the shura principle in Islam? ... It is predicated on three basic precepts. First, that all persons in any given society are equal in human and civil rights. Second, that public issues are best decided by majority view. And third, that the three other principles of justice, equality and human dignity, which constitute Islam's moral core, ... are best realized, in personal as well as public life, under shura governance.[8]

That is democracy, you should realize that democracy is a goal all Muslims should strive for. Even the last prophet (peace be upon him) himself sought the advice of his believers and citizens under him whether Muslim or non-Muslim.

 

[NakedLunch]

Ok lets do the math.

-80'000 mosques in a 80 million country means 1 Mosque per 1000 residents.

-Lets say a avarage Mosques has a capacity of 2000 people, thats already double the capacity of whole population.

-But we are not done yet, now lets take away Women and Children who rarely go to Mosque which is way more than half of the population but lets say half for easier calculation.

-Previous surveys shoved that in 2015 15 million people went to friday prayers (peak times in mosques) thats less than half of male population in the country (40 million).

Or in short 80'000x2000=160'000'000 capacity for 15'000'000 people more than 10 times of the capacity for peak times.

Now thats my own underestimated calculation, according to diyanet there are roughly 1 Mosque per 880 residents, numbers might vary but in any case we see clearly the amount of wasted money.

My brother forget all that. When the Ottoman army used to march, Europe used to tremble. Remember that? Come on, Turkiye, you used to lead us. Lead us again.

Who cares about democracy?

Shura (Arabic: شورى shūrā) is an Arabic word for "consultation". The Quran and the Prophet Muhammad encourage Muslims to decide their affairs in consultation with those who will be affected by that decision.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shura

Many contemporary Muslims have compared the concept of Shura to the principles of western parliamentary democracy. For example:

What is the shura principle in Islam? ... It is predicated on three basic precepts. First, that all persons in any given society are equal in human and civil rights. Second, that public issues are best decided by majority view. And third, that the three other principles of justice, equality and human dignity, which constitute Islam's moral core, ... are best realized, in personal as well as public life, under shura governance.[8]

That is democracy, you should realize that democracy is a goal all Muslims should strive for. Even the last prophet (peace be upon him) himself sought the advice of his believers and citizens under him whether Muslim or non-Muslim.

No, as Muslims we strive for what makes our Rasool and His Allah Happy and proud of us. This is bollox. We dont need Western definitions to define what we are. We are Muslim. We are Legion. We have Allah.

 

[xenon54 out]

My brother forget all that. When the Ottoman army used to march, Europe used to tremble. Remember that? Come on, Turkiye, you used to lead us. Lead us again.

How can i forget this when there are people in my country whose villages get shut from outer world during winter months and residents die because they have no Hospital which can be reached in time?

Now thats where we need money imadiately, the billions wasted could be invested in improving life standarts of those who need it most.

 

[NakedLunch]

How can i forget this when there are people in my country whose villages get shut from outer world during winter months and residents die because they have no Hospital which can be reached in time?

Now thats where we need money imadiately, the billions wasted could be invested in improving life standarts of those who need it most.

Lead us again. Ya Akhi, lead us again.

 

[EgyptianAmerican]

No, as Muslims we strive for what makes our Rasool and His Allah Happy and proud of us. This is bollox. We dont need Western definitions to define what we are. We are Muslim. We are Legion. We have Allah.

Are you kidding me brother? Democracy is not a western definition, it is a type of governance practiced by the last prophet himself.

We are not mindless robots following what's the least "western", that's stupid. The west has done a lot-more then us recently, we should be taking notes not complaining and whining about long dead empires.