Why?

[Indus Pakistan]

Here is a interesting fact. Vietnam lost nearly million dead to US bombs and guns. That is more dead then any Muslim country has lost in the last 70 years. In other words Vietnam is the single biggest victim of US military power than any other country since WW2.

On the other hand Vietnam killed nearly 60,000 American military personnel. More Americans have died at the hands of Vietnamese then in any other war since WW2. If you count every American killed by every single Muslim country since WW2 the number is still 10 times less.

This means Vietnanese fought like lions and killed Americans on epic scale and the defeated them. No Muslim country has done this damage or fought so well or defeated the USA like Vietname did.

Although the other side of coin is Americans killed million Vietnames. By this measure the Vietnamese would be entitled to nurse the biggest hatred for America then any other. On the American side with 60,000 lost I could understand if America despised the Vietnames.

But why is it today the Vietnamese are such good friends with Americans who in turn also have a soft spot for Vietnam. Contrast this to the hate you see by many Pakistani's against USA when there is no historty of bloodbath like Viet/USA war.

 

[Arsalan345]

Here is a interesting fact. Vietnam lost nearly million dead to US bombs and guns. That is more dead then any Muslim country has lost in the last 70 years. In other words Vietnam is the single biggest victim of US military power than any other country since WW2.

On the other hand Vietnam killed nearly 60,000 American military personnel. More Americans have died at the hands of Vietnamese then in any other war since WW2. If you count every American killed by every single Muslim country since WW2 the number is still 10 times less.

This means Vietnanese fought like lions and killed Americans on epic scale and the defeated them. No Muslim country has done this damage or fought so well or defeated the USA like Vietname did.

Although the other side of coin is Americans killed million Vietnames. By this measure the Vietnamese would be entitled to nurse the biggest hatred for America then any other. On the American side with 60,000 lost I could understand if America despised the Vietnames.

But why is it today the Vietnamese are such good friends with Americans who in turn also have a soft spot for Vietnam. Contrast this to the hate you see by many Pakistani's against USA when there is no historty of bloodbath like Viet/USA war.

Very interesting. I think Vietnam feels insecure, mainly due to china. They want protection and that's why enemies are now friends. It's amazing.

 

[TSA321]

It's quite obvious, most Pakistanis identify as Muslim first and see their Muslim identity as more important than their Pakistani identity. Hence they get outraged at the US for invading Afghanistan, Iraq, supporting Israel etc.

 

[Dalit]

Stop being naive. America is an enemy of Pakistan. It is in bed with India. In Afghanistan the US has empowered India at the expense of Pakistan. For two decades we have seen the true face of the USA. From illegal drone strikes to accusations and vilification. The US always had a transactional relation with Pakistan. If we don't understand the reality after all these years there is a serious problem.

Luckily our armed forces took the right decision. We did what we had to do. That is why we are in control and not our enemies.

Very interesting. I think Vietnam feels insecure, mainly due to china. They want protection and that's why enemies are now friends. It's amazing.

That is exactly how it is. Vietnam is an ally of convenience. There is nothing sincere about the relationship between the US and Vietnam. The mass killing and bloodshed committed by US forces during Vietnam war cannot be shrugged off as something minor.

 

[unrequitted_love_suzy]

I think Americans always get it from east asians , like the current covid crisis , it's just that they're too dumb to realize it themselves.

 

[cocomo]

Here is a interesting fact. Vietnam lost nearly million dead to US bombs and guns. That is more dead then any Muslim country has lost in the last 70 years. In other words Vietnam is the single biggest victim of US military power than any other country since WW2.

On the other hand Vietnam killed nearly 60,000 American military personnel. More Americans have died at the hands of Vietnamese then in any other war since WW2. If you count every American killed by every single Muslim country since WW2 the number is still 10 times less.

This means Vietnanese fought like lions and killed Americans on epic scale and the defeated them. No Muslim country has done this damage or fought so well or defeated the USA like Vietname did.

Although the other side of coin is Americans killed million Vietnames. By this measure the Vietnamese would be entitled to nurse the biggest hatred for America then any other. On the American side with 60,000 lost I could understand if America despised the Vietnames.

But why is it today the Vietnamese are such good friends with Americans who in turn also have a soft spot for Vietnam. Contrast this to the hate you see by many Pakistani's against USA when there is no historty of bloodbath like Viet/USA war.

Maybe its because of perception of perpetual betrayal and history of anti Muslims Orientalism in the West. Both sides hate each other. You don't kill civilians without any remorse unless you dehumanize them. And I think a lot of people (including me) blame the West for potraying Islam as terrorism world wide which emboldens Islamophobes everywhere eg. India, Burma, parts of Europe, etc..

 

[Dalit]

Maybe its because of perception of perpetual betrayal and history of anti Muslims Orientalism in the West. Both sides hate each other. You don't kill civilians without any remorse unless you dehumanize them. And I think a lot of people (including me) blame the West for potraying Islam as terrorism world wide which emboldens Islamophobes everywhere eg. India, Burma, parts of Europe, etc..

Let's just say it how it is. They are at war with anything that doesn't resemble them. Hitler, Mussolini, Bush, Cheney etc. weren't Muslims. They have been at war forever. History is full of it.

Did you notice how their hate for Muslims has now transformed into hate for China? They openly declare that their focus and enmity has changed. What more proof do we need? They thrive on hate against others. They colonised the planet and looted nations. Now they collectively wage wars and economically boycott others. The new form of colonizing other nations. Become an India and they will love you instantly.

 

[Dalit]

More than three million people have died of coronavirus

More than 3 million people have now died of coronavirus

The number of lives lost to the pandemic is almost equal to the population of Kyiv, Ukraine or Caracas, Venezuela.

www.aljazeera.com

You gone crazy? What does corona have anything to do with this topic?

 

[Viva_Viet]

But why is it today the Vietnamese are such good friends with Americans who in turn also have a soft spot for Vietnam. Contrast this to the hate you see by many Pakistani's against USA when there is no historty of bloodbath like Viet/USA war.

First, its abt education, we are taught that CN always want to invade and annex VN again and again no matter who is CN leaders.

Second, in US, only the White want to make trouble for VN ( war, color revolutions, sanctions etc) while the Black support Vnese bcs they are also oppressed people like us.

During VN war, we got support from Martin luther King, Muhammad Ali and another million black men . After the war, we got support from president Obama with TPP deal, nuclear deal that likely allows VN enrichment in our own soil etc.

Unlike CN, they all wanna annex our islands in SCS ( east VN sea), we always got support from millions US black men. We may still dislike the White, but the Black is our best friends

 

[Diggy]

Great post , There are are two things to consider here

1.Pakistan is part of the larger Muslim bloc, you may like it or not the Muslim identity plays in the minds of Pakistani people, so when US went on war with Vietnam or during WW2 we did not have internet , mobile phones or digital media , point I am making the US invasion of Muslim countries was widely covered and feed in propaganda by either sides , in the 21st century there is explosion of information and every one has a opinion , CNN used it for portraying Americans are fighting terrorism while Islamic groups portrayed it as a invasion on Muslim land & in the midst of all this of I identify myself as a devout muslim I am bound to nurse hate against US

2. Time will decide , they say time can heal everything , the real test will be after Americans pull out of let’s say AFG and then maybe after two decades of still Pakistanis continue to hate Americans then we can raise questions , today as the memories are fresh so it makes sense

Britishers ruled and plundered India for 200 years , yet I see very little hate in India for British , time will decide

 

[User]

Here is a interesting fact. Vietnam lost nearly million dead to US bombs and guns. That is more dead then any Muslim country has lost in the last 70 years. In other words Vietnam is the single biggest victim of US military power than any other country since WW2.

On the other hand Vietnam killed nearly 60,000 American military personnel. More Americans have died at the hands of Vietnamese then in any other war since WW2. If you count every American killed by every single Muslim country since WW2 the number is still 10 times less.

This means Vietnanese fought like lions and killed Americans on epic scale and the defeated them. No Muslim country has done this damage or fought so well or defeated the USA like Vietname did.

Although the other side of coin is Americans killed million Vietnames. By this measure the Vietnamese would be entitled to nurse the biggest hatred for America then any other. On the American side with 60,000 lost I could understand if America despised the Vietnames.

But why is it today the Vietnamese are such good friends with Americans who in turn also have a soft spot for Vietnam. Contrast this to the hate you see by many Pakistani's against USA when there is no historty of bloodbath like Viet/USA war.

Once I had conducted a survey for research purposes and found out that people in Pakistan are always doubtful of US in whatever happens; they see US responsible, which is justified by her position as a hegemonic state, shaping circumstances towards her interests.

There were also people who hated Americans simply because they are non-Muslims and they quoted their religion telling them they can never be their friends.

I cannot forget the people who hate America just because everyone else is doing so, though they don`t have anything personal in the process.

I concluded the above antagonistic feelings despite the perception management initiatives of US through aid and grants.

It would be very unfair if I don`t mention the people who think otherwise. Usually these people have had some kind of interaction with the Americans and had gone to America under student exchange programs.

As for the Vietnamese are concerned, there is no doubt US would have carried out propaganda missions trying to influence their attitudes. Perhaps, some might have developed Stockholm syndrome. Not to forget mentioning the possibility that there would have been people who wanted to go towards West and live a life that was more developed than theirs.

If I speak of my personal experience with a Vietnamese, he was extremely rude and aggressive from the onset of my introduction and insisted on cutting to the chase.

 

[Juggernaut_Flat_Plane_V8]

Here is a interesting fact. Vietnam lost nearly million dead to US bombs and guns. That is more dead then any Muslim country has lost in the last 70 years. In other words Vietnam is the single biggest victim of US military power than any other country since WW2.

On the other hand Vietnam killed nearly 60,000 American military personnel. More Americans have died at the hands of Vietnamese then in any other war since WW2. If you count every American killed by every single Muslim country since WW2 the number is still 10 times less.

This means Vietnanese fought like lions and killed Americans on epic scale and the defeated them. No Muslim country has done this damage or fought so well or defeated the USA like Vietname did.

Although the other side of coin is Americans killed million Vietnames. By this measure the Vietnamese would be entitled to nurse the biggest hatred for America then any other. On the American side with 60,000 lost I could understand if America despised the Vietnames.

But why is it today the Vietnamese are such good friends with Americans who in turn also have a soft spot for Vietnam. Contrast this to the hate you see by many Pakistani's against USA when there is no historty of bloodbath like Viet/USA war.

Another superpower China invaded Vietnam after USA left...Vietnam defeated them but also grew closer to the USA because of the Chinese invasion...that buried within half a decade whatever bad blood that wasleft due to the Vietnam War

 

[Vapour]

Here is a interesting fact. Vietnam lost nearly million dead to US bombs and guns. That is more dead then any Muslim country has lost in the last 70 years. In other words Vietnam is the single biggest victim of US military power than any other country since WW2.

On the other hand Vietnam killed nearly 60,000 American military personnel. More Americans have died at the hands of Vietnamese then in any other war since WW2. If you count every American killed by every single Muslim country since WW2 the number is still 10 times less.

This means Vietnanese fought like lions and killed Americans on epic scale and the defeated them. No Muslim country has done this damage or fought so well or defeated the USA like Vietname did.

Although the other side of coin is Americans killed million Vietnames. By this measure the Vietnamese would be entitled to nurse the biggest hatred for America then any other. On the American side with 60,000 lost I could understand if America despised the Vietnames.

But why is it today the Vietnamese are such good friends with Americans who in turn also have a soft spot for Vietnam. Contrast this to the hate you see by many Pakistani's against USA when there is no historty of bloodbath like Viet/USA war.

The conspiracy theories can be disregarded, this requires actual studying of US-Vietnam ties post 1975, rather than amateur guesses.

The obvious elephant in the room is the US' changing interests and threat perceptions over the previous 50 years. Post WW2, the US' main priority was tackling the USSR and it's so called "Iron Curtain" in Europe and growing communist influence globally. This influence impacted South East Asia too, with North Vietnam's communist regime in place, so naturally it became a theatre for US ops when it tried re-integrating South Vietnam within its territory.

After the war, the USSR moved onto Afghanistan and again the US reacted there and we all know what happened. However, from the 90s onwards, it seems like after the US' objective of defeating the USSR was fulfilled, it then moved onto securing oil reserves and focusing on Muslim countries, primarily those who had oil. In 2008, we had the sub-prime mortgage crisis, which no doubt played it's part in limiting new US invasions in recent years. This period from 1980-2010, it seems plain as to why Vietnam was no longer near the forefront of the US' strategic calculus, since it effectively was not a country that resonated with the core issues the US saw it needed to deal with. From 2010 onwards, we have seen the emergence of China jockeying for the top of the totem pole with the US and in some aspects it arguably is even ahead on. Thus, in this backdrop, the US' interests converge to an extent with Vietnam's, in that containment of China is beneficial for both countries and working together may be help them achieve their national interests whilst trying to mitigate China as a threat.

Regarding casualties in the Vietnam campaign vs in current wars, let me preface this by stating that I am not a military expert, so if incorrect on details please correct me. For me 3 reasons stand out:

- Technology (lack of applicability of it in jungle warfare/no access to the modern advancements of today)
- Spec Ops utilisation
- Jungle warfare vs Urban and conventional warfare

Technology - this includes land, sea, air and space, given the environment of the war in Vietnam, it was in thick forests and jungles which made it easier for the sub-conventional warfare that the Viet Cong waged against the US. Primarily, focused on underground bases to avoid getting hit by fighter jets and attack helios and also to enable a stable base of operations, the Viet Cong were able to adapt using natural means and thus slightly nullified the advantage of technology the US had. Alternatively in AFG, the land is so barren and rocky, the initial invasion which employed the use of fighter jets to good effect given the easier topography as well as advancements in tech since the 70s, was easily able to occupy the major chunk of the land within a few weeks.

- Spec Ops Utilisation, a hallmark of US campaigns is to use special forces as a tip of the spear to accelerate progress. However, the war they were fighting was essentially defending against battle-hardened guerrilla fighters in their own conditions, rather than typical conventional armies using textbook methods. This was further exacerbated in the jungles where the element of surprise was with the Viet Cong rather than the US SFs.

- Jungle warfare, I think most of the US casualties may have been whilst operating in the jungles vs urban environments, where they could use their special forces and airforce to great effect.

 

[khansaheeb]

Very interesting. I think Vietnam feels insecure, mainly due to china. They want protection and that's why enemies are now friends. It's amazing.

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.

 

[Viva_Viet]

- Jungle warfare, I think most of the US casualties may have been whilst operating in the jungles vs urban environments, where they could use their special forces and airforce to great effect.

Jungle warfare is just a way to reduce the damages for Vnese, US never be defeated just by Jungle warfare. Defeating US airforces over VN sky was the key for our Victory.

U should read more abt the air battle during VN war.

-------
Operation Linebacker II was a US Seventh Air Force and U.S. Navy Task Force 77 aerial bombing campaign, conducted against targets in the Democratic Republic of Vietnam (North Vietnam) during the final period of US involvement in the Vietnam War. The operation was conducted from 18 to 29 December 1972, leading to several informal names such as "The December Raids" and "The Christmas Bombings".[10] Unlike the Operation Rolling Thunder and Operation Linebacker interdiction operations, Linebacker II was to be a "maximum effort" bombing campaign to "destroy major target complexes in the Hanoi and Haiphong areas, which could only be accomplished by B-52s".[11][12] It saw the largest heavy bomber strikes launched by the U.S. Air Force since the end of World War II. Linebacker II was a modified extension of the Operation Linebacker bombings conducted from May to October, when the emphasis of the new campaign shifted to attacks by B-52s rather than smaller tactical fighter aircraft.

Operation Linebacker II - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org