Why?

[magra]

When Pakistan becomes a secular, democratic country with scientific temper, that's when India will implode.
Looking at the fanaticism at display in the current protests in Pakistan, I don't see it happening in the near future.

If Pakistan becomes more secular and democratic, then it will actually help India as that will take away the vote polarization by bashing Pak. In such a situation, India will also become more secular.
India will prosper more if our neighbors are stable and prosperous.

 

[Varunastra]

When Pakistan becomes a secular, democratic country with scientific temper, that's when India will implode.
Looking at the fanaticism at display in the current protests in Pakistan, I don't see it happening in the near future.

And why is that? Pakistan becoming secular has nothing to do with us, we aren't dependent on any ideology like two nation theory that will impact us.
The part I do agree is I don't see a secular Pakistan happening anytime soon.

 

[KedarT]

A secular progressive booming Pakistan is enough to make the progressive parts of India to break off into seperate nations or city states

As I said in the previous post, we ourselves aren't very progressive yet by Western and East Asian standards. We know our huge failures in terms of poverty, inequality, etc but then our people see our neighboring states and get a feeling of satisfaction that atleast we are doing better than them on some indicators. Our politicians too keep the focus on Pakistan, BD, etc knowing full well that we are a lot behind even the East Asian countries. When we see our neighbors prospering and us lagging behind, that's when people will actually start thinking.

 

[magra]

A secular progressive booming Pakistan is enough to make the progressive parts of India to break off into seperate nations or city states

Is relatively secular and progressive booming BD making WB or Assam break away from India?
If not, why will something like that happen with Pak becomes secular and progressive.
In fact, it is helping cement connectivity with North east through BD.

In fact, it will be better for India. Pak may finally see the sense of allowing Indo-Afghan trade through its land. Will de-link bilateral trade from Kashmir issue (as China does). It will make the region more prosperous and progressive.

All rich and emerging countries of the world have good trade relations with its neighbors - be it US, Germany, Japan, China, Singapore etc. For India to become rich, we need to convince Pak to delink trade from other issues.

 

[KedarT]

And why is that? Pakistan becoming secular has nothing to do with us, we aren't dependent on any ideology like two nation theory that will impact us.

You might be right, it will ultimately on the mandate of the people. Right now, we have a unanimous mandate for a single unified Union but what I'm positing is that this attitude might change based on how our neighbors fare economically. But if we continue doing well economically (even as our neighbors develop themselves) with lesser and lesser inequality and better HDI indicators, we'll most probably continue to be a Union as we are now.

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

Unfortunately my friend the brutal truth and you East Asians know this but avoid saying because you don't want to disrespect. In Pakistan we have religion. That kills posssibility of doing what you guys do. I say this because I am not bothered what PDF people think of me. I will just say what I think. In private discussions with Chinese once they open up they also will point at the toxic culture of religion in Pakistan that has killed any chance of progress.

You said about how East Asians aspire to make phones, cars, computers etc. In Pakistan the culture is instead to look religious. Note I said look. Meaning little effort is made to improve yourself. It;s all about looking religious and then judging others. Then even forcing others. You see in last 3 days Pakistan has been burning. What about? Religion. Because what some French people said in Paris. Nothing to do with Pakistan.

In Pakistan it's all about fake religion, fake respect. It's not like religion in Pakistan has created a kind society. Rape, murder, abuse, corruption and other crimes are as common as rest of the world.

The truth is was it not for East Asians most of Pakistan could very well slide back to middle ages. There would be no cheap phones, cars etc. Without those products Pakistan would slide back to stone age. Unless it began to beg the whites for imports but most Western products are expensive.

Respect, religion is big. The hypocracy is it is a lazy, corrupt culture which lives on begging money from western institutions like IMF, running abroad as illegal migrants to the very white countries they compliain about. Many of the most virulent anti-western PDF'er will be from this group who live in the west.

Then after having begged the loans or got remittances from abroad the word "respect" comes out.

*sigh*.

Ps. I am jealous of East Asian culture that is so humble, hard working, realistic, strong when required as your wars have proven. You know how to fight, how to work and how to make peace. And most important you learn and even adopt ideas from your enemies.

Sad but very true. How do we change or even try to correct this weakness/fallacy?

 

[KedarT]

If Pakistan becomes more secular and democratic, then it will actually help India as that will take away the vote polarization by bashing Pak. In such a situation, India will also become more secular.
India will prosper more if our neighbors are stable and prosperous.

Yes, but even we should start doing better and better on HDI and per capita indicators. Otherwise, people will start questioning ki 'Hamare aas paas vale desh acche aage gaye hai hum kyu peeche reh gaye?'

 

[magra]

You might be right, it will ultimately on the mandate of the people. Right now, we have a unanimous mandate for a single unified Union but what I'm positing is that this attitude might change based on how our neighbors fare economically. But if we continue doing well economically (even as our neighbors develop themselves) with lesser and lesser inequality and better HDI indicators, we'll most probably continue to be a Union as we are now.

Pakistan was faring better economically compared to India till 1970s and it was lot more secular then compared to now. But there was no call to breakaway from any Indian state.

Yes, but even we should start doing better and better on HDI and per capita indicators. Otherwise, people will start questioning ki 'Hamare aas paas vale desh acche aage gaye hai hum kyu peeche reh gaye?'

You are right. We will start comparing which is good for healthy competition. We are now seeing how BD is doing better than us in HDI and other indicators. But that does not mean that there is any feeling in any Indian state to breakaway.

 

[KedarT]

Pakistan was faring better economically compared to India till 1970s and it was lot more secular then compared to now. But there was no call to breakaway from any Indian state.

Fair point but those were early days. And you never know, if Pakistan might have continued that streak, would we have remained as we our now? I'm doubtful about that.

 

[magra]

Fair point but those were early days. And you never know, if Pakistan might have continued that streak, would we have remained as we our now? I'm doubtful about that.

The only state which had any real danger to breakaway was J&K, had Pak continued to do much better than India.
Indians have learned the hard lesson from British rule that as smaller states, we are bullied and overpowered by external powers. States may demand more autonomy in financial matters but no one would want to breakaway.

 

[KedarT]

You are right. We will start comparing which is good for healthy competition. We are now seeing how BD is doing better than us in HDI and other indicators. But that does not mean that there is any feeling in any Indian state to breakaway.

BD is doing good but that's because our economy took a big hit because of COVID. And it's also not like there's a huge gulf between us and them.

But it's a good thing that they are developing at a good pace but a bigger question is whether they'll be able to sustain it? Or will they cave in to the right wing elements in their society? Very early days still.

 

[magra]

BD is doing good but that's because our economy took a big hit because of COVID. And it's also not like there's a huge gulf between us and them.

But it's a good thing that they are developing at a good pace but a bigger question is whether they'll be able to sustain it? Or will they cave in to the right wing elements in their society? Very early days still.

Please open a separate thread as we are digressing here. Pretty soon we will be warned for it.

 

[Viva_Viet]

That is the behaviour of a pet, bro. Not something that a Muslim could tolerate.
Somethings are not available to money, such as honor.
American soldiers stationed at Japan and Korea are committing rape to this day under the nose of japanese/korean governments.
That's something that we cannot tolerate.
Whether they have shrines or not, they are not in a good condition.
All these countries which were raped by Americans in ww2 are hosting American military bases, USA has made them its froneline against independent nations such as Russia and China.

But u still want to use JP-Sk's cars, laptop, phones etc, right ? And do u know why JP/SK can make good cars/laptops ?? Bcs they Beg the West to share the technology for them and u have to work hard to have money to buy their cars, phones bcs the West don't share their technology with you,so u can't make good cars, good phones.

And this thread is mainly abt VN, we don't need tobe their pet, we fought hard to gain our independent and we still can make our own car, own phones, own 5G. That's something u guys can learn from VN.

 

[Viva_Viet]

And after all that 'loss', Vietnam became a shining star of capitalism. They were better off not fighitng the Americans. Ho Chi Minh has proved himself irrelevant.

.

We r still communist nation, we r applying Lenin new economy policy now.

------'xx
Lenin characterized the NEP in 1922 as an economic system that would include "a free market and capitalism, both subject to state control," while socialized state enterprises would operate on "a profit basis."

New Economic Policy - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[Juggernaut_Flat_Plane_V8]

Is relatively secular and progressive booming BD making WB or Assam break away from India?
If not, why will something like that happen with Pak becomes secular and progressive.
In fact, it is helping cement connectivity with North east through BD.

In fact, it will be better for India. Pak may finally see the sense of allowing Indo-Afghan trade through its land. Will de-link bilateral trade from Kashmir issue (as China does). It will make the region more prosperous and progressive.

All rich and emerging countries of the world have good trade relations with its neighbors - be it US, Germany, Japan, China, Singapore etc. For India to become rich, we need to convince Pak to delink trade from other issues.

the differentiation is not there....ask me in 15 years...if BD has thrice the GDP per capita than India then, and is committed to secularism then situation may look extremely different in West Bengal...Kolkata is the home of bengali renaissance....Upper class bengalis just cannot stand the bhaiyya types whose world begins with Ram mandir and ends with gaumutra.....whereas a significant portion of upperclass Bengalis are very much conversant with european enlightenment ideals, european scientific revolution, marxism etc...there is absolutely no such class in the bhaiyya belt...upper class means selling land to have custom lifted fat offroad tyred 4x4s there....if the cow belt keeps holding India back and Bangladesh becomes thrice or four times as rich as the average Indian...pandemonium will start happening in eastern wing....


@Baibars_1260 @Bilal9 @KedarT @yuba