Why the TTP is undefeatable

[TheSolution]

From all forms of ethno-nationalism;

The strongest form is Pashtun ethno-nationalism especially due to Afghanistan sitting next door and a very porous western border. Which makes it ripe for sustainable insurgencies and continuous manpower.

TTP itself is Pashtun ethnonationalism mixed with Islamic extremism. Pashtuns when they fight they always add an Islamic twist.

Religious extremism is not as big of a threat as he paints it to be, it will only be a significant threat if you try to pull an Attaturk.

 

[Wolfhunter]

TTP isnt only issue. If you think TTP isnt the ideological twin of taliban/AQ/Isis then you need help. They are all terrorist with different names who follow same ideology. I never said bla was islamic. My point was like other extremist groups much of BLAs leadership and cadre are very well educated and many from affluent families. Thus refuting the claim that the lack of education is due to terrorism.

Just last year a very educated female suicide bomber blew herself up with chinese in karachi. Her whole family was extremely well educated. Dr afia siddique was extremely well wducated yet was roaming with terrorist in afghanistan.

Pakistan used to be to big to fail but at this poijt key allies like ksa and usa have almost given up. Bangladesh has a lot more economic valye than you. How many suicide bombings or terrorism does bangladwsh have??? Are you going to waie up when bangladeshs GDP is 2-4 times paks size? For you people to finqlly realize how much extremism has penetrated your brains that you dont know right from wrong

You do know that Dr.Siddiqui was arrested and extradited on a rendition flight from Karachi right???

 

[SQ8]

I am sick and tired of hearing that education is the issue. Sorry for being blunt but that is incorrect. Its not an educational issue. Many many terrorist are well educated. Bin laden, Zawahiri, etc were more educated than you or I. Many foreign fighters are extremely educated. Many suicide bombers are very well educated.

It is not an educational issue. It is a religious and Islamic issue. Why is it that since the time of the prophet our first 4 caliphas were assasinated? A certain segment of the muslim population has always resorted to extremism. At that point it becomes our responsibility ti question things further than just simpleton excuses.

Islamic society today is more prone to violence, more prone to extremism and more prone to fraud/corruption. Is it because we can easily use Islam to make ourselves feel better as if we are washing away our sins? We must introspect at the messages that mullahs are teaching us and our children. Islam is a powerful belief held by weak petty men.

I am not saying that is the source, infact I might not even know the reason for so much extremism in muslim countries today, but excuses such as oh its lack of education lack of funds or colonialization just doesnt cut it at this point. There needs to be a large degree of interospection especially for Pakistani muslims. Example i can give is that pakistani sunnis will be most extreme sunnis and pakistani shias will be most extreme shias. Why do pakistanis always tend to lean towards extreme beliefs? Rather than moderate middle of the road path?

Yes but you are ignoring the aspect of what Bin Laden was or Zawahiri was versus the foot soldier. The guys you pop from Apaches and those who run with one Ak, a water bottle and a blanket aren’t educated.

Political disagreement and extremism while distinct initially in Islam have fully coalesced on multiple divergent political and religious divisions but always with a political focus more than anything else. Case in point is Shia’ism - it began as a case of succession and now is a full blown Iranian led sociopolitical sectarian identity.

Pakistanis should introspect yes but you cannot get a majority introspection when the majority is barely literate to read or write.

 

[TheSolution]

TTP isnt only issue. If you think TTP isnt the ideological twin of taliban/AQ/Isis then you need help. They are all terrorist with different names who follow same ideology.

TTP is the ideological twin of Afghan Taliban, that's the only part I agree with.

It's not the twin of the other orgs, as it is heavily mixed with Pashtun nationalism, even Afghan Taliban next door is implementing their tribal cultural code more than Islam, and cracking down on other jihadi organisations to focus on national development, and how it treats other Muslim ethnicities like the Taajiks, Hazaras, Uzbeks is not very Islamic.

They only care about Pashtun lands!

I never said bla was islamic. My point was like other extremist groups much of BLAs leadership and cadre are very well educated and many from affluent families. Thus refuting the claim that the lack of education is due to terrorism.

Just last year a very educated female suicide bomber blew herself up with chinese in karachi. Her whole family was extremely well educated. Dr afia siddique was extremely well wducated yet was roaming with terrorist in afghanistan.

You can't judge every type of insurgency the same way. There's different categories, religious and ethnic insurgencies are very different, and how you handle them is also different.

Education plays little part in ethnic insurgencies because it's more about protecting your ethnic identity and culture. In this aspect it's just really about how much destruction a person is willing to stomach to reach this goal. Based on how important this idea of their ethnic state is.

Shari Baloch is the woman you're talking about yes, she blew herself up while targeting Chinese nationals in Karachi.

Religious insurgency is all about severe indoctrination and believing in very radical interpretations, or feeling like a state has become anti-religion. Education can 100% offset this by a good degree.

 

[TheSolution]

I am sick and tired of hearing that education is the issue. Sorry for being blunt but that is incorrect. Its not an educational issue. Many many terrorist are well educated. Bin laden, Zawahiri, etc were more educated than you or I. Many foreign fighters are extremely educated. Many suicide bombers are very well educated.

It's about the ratio here, if you can severely stunt the recruitment drive then the insurgency will eventually die out over time.

Most religious terrorists don't fit into that category, very few do. The majority are indoctrinated and have not much outside knowledge or exposure to the world

An exception to the rule i.e the minority will always exist. But we can work with small outliers.

 

[KaiserX]

It's about the ratio here, if you can severely stunt the recruitment drive then the insurgency will eventually die out over time.

Most religious terrorists don't fit into that category, very few do. The majority are indoctrinated and have not much outside knowledge or exposure to the world

An exception to the rule i.e the minority will always exist. But we can work with small outliers.

We can agree to disagree. Again I have studied CT in the afghan/pak region in detail for many years. There is not much different between Ttp/taliban other than name. There leaders pray together, there foot soldiers eat together, there families intermarry etc…

Same thing with AQ/Isis as well. Sure sometimes when they gain power they kill one another but 90% of time they exchange fighters and suicicer bombers like a commodity.

The core leadership and 2nd level leadership of these groups are highly educated. Sure the foot soldiers are not but these soldiers are disposable. There is huge population of uneducated people to feed from. You wont ever be able to educate everyone. Not even western societies can do that.

Lastly if you looj at ttps most recent press release (all over twitter) you will see they are now sharing camps with BLA and backing them with training/weapons and have backed baloch terrorist islamically. What does difference in ideology or ethnicity make at that point?

Just lack week 2 isi operatives were killed in the heart of punjab by punjabis. What difference did ethnicity make at that point? Last 20
Years people much smarter than you have made the craziest excuses and nothing has changed. Here wr are today in much worse situation, with the same exact talking points. Idc abt baloch terrorist or pashtun terrorist or good/bad terrorist… i only like a dead terrorist

 

[TheSolution]

We can agree to disagree. Again I have studied CT in the afghan/pak region in detail for many years. There is not much different between Ttp/taliban other than name. There leaders pray together, there foot soldiers eat together, there families intermarry etc…

Same thing with AQ/Isis as well. Sure sometimes when they gain power they kill one another but 90% of time they exchange fighters and suicicer bombers like a commodity.

The core leadership and 2nd level leadership of these groups are highly educated. Sure the foot soldiers are not but these soldiers are disposable. There is huge population of uneducated people to feed from. You wont ever be able to educate everyone. Not even western societies can do that.

Lastly if you looj at ttps most recent press release (all over twitter) you will see they are now sharing camps with BLA and backing them with training/weapons and have backed baloch terrorist islamically. What does difference in ideology or ethnicity make at that point?

Just lack week 2 isi operatives were killed in the heart of punjab by punjabis. What difference did ethnicity make at that point? Last 20
Years people much smarter than you have made the craziest excuses and nothing has changed. Here wr are today in much worse situation, with the same exact talking points. Idc abt baloch terrorist or pashtun terrorist or good/bad terrorist… i only like a dead terrorist

Yes we can agree to disagree, especially on that last line

 

[chinasun]

Indonesia formed a national identity against Dutch colonial rule. Turkey creates Turkic identity. Pakistan also needs to inherit South Asian Islamic cultural identity. Restrict foreign forces and separatist forces from using religious places to spread religious extremism. Religion needs to be better regulated.

 

[TheSolution]

Indonesia formed a national identity against Dutch colonial rule. Turkey creates Turkic identity. Pakistan also needs to inherit South Asian Islamic cultural identity. Restrict foreign forces and separatist forces from using religious places to spread religious extremism. Religion needs to be better regulated.

This is the same thing which I've suggested a few times; teaching but not enforcing.

Religion is not regulated at all, and the reason why it should be is because it is weaponised, you'd rather maintain control over it than leaving such a sensitive thing to strangers knowing it could cause severe harm.

Any random man with a beard is able to spread his beliefs & interpretation as an absolute truth and begin to hold importance. There needs to be a stringent requirements for religious figures and they should also have formal education.

Also you're correct on the national identity, Pakistan needs to emphasise on indigenous civilisations, cultures and historical figures and not focus on foreign empires just because they were Muslim. It creates a weird pan-Islamist extremist ideology, and sometimes even an inferiority complex because a person knows more about other nation's achievements & history than even his own.

 

[Sayfullah]

How to destroy Pakistan at the fastest pace

TTP would gain hundreds of thousands, even millions of fighters within a month, and Pakistan Army wouldn't even exist because soldiers would join them.

You would have to commit genocide apart from some parts of Islamabad, Lahore and Karachi to win this war.

Basically you'd have to kill 98% of the population just to implement this lmao

@Sayfullah

Majority on this forum including the one with titles live in a fantasy. They say be like Turkey. Turkey is a country for Turks and Kurds were oppressed under Ataturk and that’s a fact. Pakistan is a country made up of multiple nations. We can’t afford to remove Islam from Pakistan because all these nations will break away from Pakistan. No ataturk will work here. Islam cannot be removed from Pakistan. These people say remove religion from state. If there is a reason why jihad isn’t allowed against Pakistani state today is because it’s a Muslim state. There is nothing stopping jihad against a secular state with anti Islamic laws. The last line of defence we have against ttp is that we’re an “Islamic” republic. Remove religion from Pakistan and there’s no religious justification saying jihad is haram against a secular state. How can a secular state call a group khawarij? And for people thinking just pure military might can defeat religious extremists, I would like to remind them what a soviet general once said in Afghanistan, he said “how can you defeat an enemy which looks into the barrel of your gun and sees paradise”. And no, pig blood bullets will not change this fact and in the last 1400 years many tried this tactic which heavily backfired.
What we need to do is fight TTP by proving their khawarij and destroy their ideology.
Btw before any quotes me for living in Canada, Canada isn’t Pakistan. Read my point from a logical point of view. Canada isn’t majority conservative Muslims and wasn’t created in the name of Islam.

 

[KaiserX]

Indonesia formed a national identity against Dutch colonial rule. Turkey creates Turkic identity. Pakistan also needs to inherit South Asian Islamic cultural identity. Restrict foreign forces and separatist forces from using religious places to spread religious extremism. Religion needs to be better regulated

Majority on this forum including the one with titles live in a fantasy. They say be like Turkey. Turkey is a country for Turks and Kurds were oppressed under Ataturk and that’s a fact. Pakistan is a country made up of multiple nations. We can’t afford to remove Islam from Pakistan because all these nations will break away from Pakistan. No ataturk will work here. Islam cannot be removed from Pakistan. These people say remove religion from state. If there is a reason why jihad isn’t allowed against Pakistani state today is because it’s a Muslim state. There is nothing stopping jihad against a secular state with anti Islamic laws. The last line of defence we have against ttp is that we’re an “Islamic” republic. Remove religion from Pakistan and there’s no religious justification saying jihad is haram against a secular state. How can a secular state call a group khawarij? And for people thinking just pure military might can defeat religious extremists, I would like to remind them what a soviet general once said in Afghanistan, he said “how can you defeat an enemy which looks into the barrel of your gun and sees paradise”. And no, pig blood bullets will not change this fact and in the last 1400 years many tried this tactic which heavily backfired.
What we need to do is fight TTP by proving their khawarij and destroy their ideology.
Btw before any quotes me for living in Canada, Canada isn’t Pakistan. Read my point from a logical point of view. Canada isn’t majority conservative Muslims and wasn’t created in the name of Islam.

Go get your head checked. 4 different nations? Since when did sindh kp baloch or punjab ever have there own nation?

Plz move to your islamic emirate afghanistan next door you takfiri hypocrit living in canada and trying to preach to us here. Pakistani nation and pakistani people are extremely pious muslims we dont need your advise or lecture.

Spare us the crap we been spoon fed since childhood. Yet today our country is in misery.

 

[Sayfullah]

It's about the ratio here, if you can severely stunt the recruitment drive then the insurgency will eventually die out over time.

Most religious terrorists don't fit into that category, very few do. The majority are indoctrinated and have not much outside knowledge or exposure to the world

An exception to the rule i.e the minority will always exist. But we can work with small outliers.

Pakistan should do the bare minimum at least to be called an Islamic country. Do the very very bare minimum at least and if you can’t even do it at least try. There’s very very very strict conditions to rebelling against a ruler and against an Islamic country by consensus of many scholars it isn’t even allowed and, the one which say there is a slight chance for some justification still have very strict criteria which must be met and after all that too it must lead to less evil, not make the lives of Muslims of that country more difficult.
Yes there was always khawarij dogs who were a cancer in Islamic states. They were defeated and put in their place because the states used Islamic justification to exterminate them.

Go get your head checked. 4 different nations? Since when did sindh kp baloch or punjab ever have their own nation?

Pakistan existed after 47. Before 47 there was no such thing as Pakistan.

Plz move to your islamic emirate afghanistan next door you takfiri hypocrit living in canada and trying to preach to us here.

Prove me a hypocrite by proving Islamically that I am not allowed to live in Canada.
Islamically I am allowed and that’s all that matters.
Pakistani state is free to take your stand but don’t cry when the country collapses because of your stupidity and the stupidity of people like you.

Pakistani nation and pakistani people are extremely pious muslims we dont need your advise or lecture.

I agree they’re very pious MUSLIMS.
Muslims won’t allow Muslim lands to be de facto colonized by kufr through ideologies like lgbtq.

Spare us the crap we been spoon fed since childhood. Yet today our country is in misery.

The country is in misery because your rulers put their interests over the nations and they took dollars to allow cancerous western ideologies to spread in Pakistan.

Save me the bs and go get educated first.

 

[TheSolution]

Pakistan should do the bare minimum at least to be called an Islamic country. Do the very very bare minimum at least and if you can’t even do it at least try. There’s very very very strict conditions to rebelling against a ruler and against an Islamic country by consensus of many scholars it isn’t even allowed and, the one which say there is a slight chance for some justification still have very strict criteria which must be met and after all that too it must lead to less evil, not make the lives of Muslims of that country more difficult.
Yes there was always khawarij dogs who were a cancer in Islamic states. They were defeated and put in their place because the states used Islamic justification to exterminate them.

Agreed, as an Islamic Republic and even my personal opinion as a Muslim.

Pakistan should not cross redlines of the average Muslim or Islam.

LGBT laws & endorsement by the state in media is a big-no. It legitimises the narrative of the Khawarij and significantly increases their recruitment. Pakistan in reality is a Muslim state, you can't expect there not to be any backlash.

It should work to at least to not cross redlines that make supporting the state Islamically impossible. Just do the bare minimum at the very least.

Pakistani nationalism and valuing your Islamic beliefs can co-exist strongly. Iran is the primary example. They just need to emphasise on indegenous civilisations, culture, history & historical figures. And our national interests. Muslim should just be a quality/characteristic of the people which they value. Stop larping or focusing on foreigners like Turks or Arabs, it's counterproductive.

 

[TheSolution]

The country is in misery because your rulers put their interests over the nations and they took dollars to allow cancerous western ideologies to spread in Pakistan.

Save me the bs and go get educated first.

Pakistan requires a sociocultural national revolution.

It's the bad characteristics of the people that can ultimately be traced back to the reason why we are a shithole - extreme tribal affiliations leading to counterproductive nepotism & tolerating horrible leaders, corruption by money laundering stolen state funds, ego by refusing to accept others may be more competent than you, being selfish even in government positions.

The change starts in the roots of societies and it's people, then it it's institutions, then it's leaders. We as a nation need to be open-minded and shape our culture to be as productive as possible, any toxic things that hinder national development & security need to be changed. We should take inspiration from the world around us.

It's a massive mess only a revolutionary can fix.

 

[pikkuboss]

Intellectual dishonesty with its value of mediocrity continues to be appreciated in the country.

Worsening economic conditions in the country are forcing physics teacher to teach counter terrorism and geopolitics.



The responsibility hence lies upon India to play the bigger role and allow for a plebiscite in disputed regions occupied by her military.

Pakistan's army and the arsenal at their disposal and much of the state doctrine is derived and inspired by the Kashmir dispute. A dispute much less important in India than in Pakistan.

India already gave its verdict. Let's call the LOC international border and be done with it. It is actually a compromise on India's side, but we are ready to make this sacrifice for our own good.