Why Punjabis in Pakistan Have Abandoned Punjabi

[Pandora]

Just report and ignore. They are not interested in facts.

Urdu actually is suited best to its native script, which is the modified Persian Arabic origin one. Same script used by Kurds, Turks previously, Iranians, Afghans, and Uyghurs

I know he is just a ignorant dumb moron but sometimes ignorance of these dumb Indian really gets on my nerve. I would love hear Indian songs and poetry in shudh hindi . Urdu is a language of poets and writers no language can even come close to its perfection.

 

[TheGreatMaratha]

You have zero knowledge of history of hindi and linguistics.
Hindi evolved out of khari boli which evolved out of sanskrit....what you call urdu is the bastardised version of hindi...
Urdu has persian and arabic nouns more compared to hindi...nouns dont make a language...verbs,post positions,prepositions make a language..can you tell me just one verb ,post position that is not of sanskrit origin in urdu?
Just because you have a few different nouns(for formal languagr) in urdu it doesnt make it a different language from hindi...
For example..in hindi they say modi hindustan ka pradhan mantri hai.
In urd.u you say modi hindustan ka wazeer e azam hai...just because you use wazeer e azam it doesnt make it a different language.
Todays children say Modi hamara Prime Minister hai...children these days insert many english words in hindi...according to your argument we should call it with some other name and not hindi simply because they are using english nouns in a hindi sentence.
No linguist in the world considers urdu and hindi different languages..they cant even be called different dialects of a same language...they are one and the same language.
https://matadornetwork.com/abroad/why-hindi-urdu-is-one-language-and-arabic-is-several/

Thanks for sharing the link.

The connection between Hindi, Hindustani, Urdu, Sanskrit, Persian is really simple. If Urdu is 70% Persian/Arabic and more closely related to those languages, why don't they have the same sentence structure as those languages? Worth a thought?

Also, why not just use and adopt Persian/Arabic over Urdu if Persian/Arabic is more important? This way you guys completely get rid of the Sanskrit words of the language. I mean Punjabi is already disowned through consensus and that's fine. From the comments here, it seems that Punjabi is used in general conversation but I don't think it's used much in literature. It seems like it will go the way of just an oral language, something like Chattgaiyan from Bangladesh. Of course, I'm talking of Pakistani Punjabi here.

The Punjabi in India is going strong and nowadays I notice many Bollywood songs using Punjabi words.

Personally, for me, I think Punjabi is a cool language and I would love to learn a few Punjabi words just to throw them around and impress people when I speak to Punjabis.

 

[M.AsfandYar]

Certainly are how own views, as they don't resemble reality in any way shape or form.
Punjabi is spoken by tens of millions as a main tongue in a variety of environments e.g. from business to home life. Outside Punjab variants extend all the way to Kashmir and to khyber pakhtunkhwa.
Much of the greatest poetry, a great deal of it with religious themes (Islamic Sufism) written in the sub-continent has been in the form of exquisite Punjabi e.g. Bulleh Shah(ra). It's not a raw zaban at all, and his many variations.

Tell how many languages can rock your heart like this;

Punjabi the heritage of Pakistan, one of our mother tongues, period.

I want to ask these keepers of Punjabi, how many great poets have they produced? How many are there today? What new literary styles have they introduced? I am not saying they dont have any contribution to language but please this bullshit has got to stop. These fourth rate songs in bollywood DO NOT COUNT as contributions to Punjabi.
Anwar Masood alone outclasses any and everything from across the border. And he will go down in history as one of the great poets of Language in modern times and overall.

 

[M.AsfandYar]

 

[waz]

I want to ask these keepers of Punjabi, how many great poets have they produced? How many are there today? What new literary styles have they introduced? I am not saying they dont have any contribution to language but please this bullshit has got to stop. These fourth rate songs in bollywood DO NOT COUNT as contributions to Punjabi.
Anwar Masood alone outclasses any and everything from across the border. And he will go down in history as one of the great poets of Language in modern times and overall.

Agreed bro, they lack cultural singers in Punjabi and have more of these Bolly dudes singing in that weird mix.

 

[Mentee]

Indian punjab is simply barren when it comes to nourishing and projecting punjabi culture other than those obscene junglee bolkywood lyrics and tunktonuk tun

 

[ps3linux]

I want to ask these keepers of Punjabi, how many great poets have they produced? How many are there today? What new literary styles have they introduced? I am not saying they dont have any contribution to language but please this bullshit has got to stop. These fourth rate songs in bollywood DO NOT COUNT as contributions to Punjabi.
Anwar Masood alone outclasses any and everything from across the border. And he will go down in history as one of the great poets of Language in modern times and overall.

Agreed bro, they lack cultural singers in Punjabi and have more of these Bolly dudes singing in that weird mix.

Respected dears, if you would take word from someone who has traveled multiple times to East Punjab let me share few things:

Compared to rest of India deliberately Punjab/Haryana/UP and some part of Rajhastan have been kept under developed. We know how RSS mind set works, and it is in the works for last 70 years, strong Punjabi economy can you imagine what could have happened? so the Punjabi there had to look towards appeasing Delhi and beyond, the younger generation adopted what was "acceptable behavior from delhi" it does not mean punjabis in general accepted that culture.

Its the same like us the west expect a certain level of "moderate Muslims" thus we have that type in every city, use your imagination of what those "moderate Muslims" are, same with Indian Punjabi.

If you go there with the exception of signboards and the language used you wont find too much of a difference between our villages and theirs. Their police is as good as Punajb Police, that's why it is called "punjab police"

Traveled from Lahore to Amritsar all along the road its beautiful plantation of a tree "i forgot the name" which is pleasing looking and bio-diesel is made from it. Hindi is spoken but not really welcome, they will light up Sikhs particularly if you speak Punjabi, Muslims express guarded views but Sikhs are pretty open. Urdu they will listen but prefer to reply in Punjabi, since our (my family's) punjabi is almost the same as their they not only recognize from which part of Punjab my grandparent migrated from at the time of partition but welcome as their own kin. That's about language.

Their elder generation, younger ones are fighting to protect their heritage and language, given they haven't produced any big name in writing/poetry besides khushwant singh but as far as singing goes please look beyond mainstream media, one name that immediately comes to mind is Kanwar Grewal one from the younger generation but down to earth, met him a real punjabi.

 

[jamahir]

Agreed bro, they lack cultural singers in Punjabi and have more of these Bolly dudes singing in that weird mix.

Indian punjab is simply barren when it comes to nourishing and projecting punjabi culture other than those obscene junglee bolkywood lyrics and tunktonuk tun

I don't know deep Punjabi but I can sense the drift of the songs. One of the older Punjabi sufi singers in India is Prof. Madan Gopal Singh. I have a song of his ( Heer ? ) of my pen drive.

@ps3linux

 

[ps3linux]

I don't know deep Punjabi but I can sense the drift of the songs. One of the older Punjabi sufi singers in India is Prof. Madan Gopal Singh. I have a song of his ( Heer ? ) of my pen drive.

@ps3linux

Already provided some feedback, sorry missed his name "Madan Gopal Singh" watched his DVD uninterrupted "Chaar Yaar - The Faqiri Quartet"

 

[M.AsfandYar]

Respected dears, if you would take word from someone who has traveled multiple times to East Punjab let me share few things:

Compared to rest of India deliberately Punjab/Haryana/UP and some part of Rajhastan have been kept under developed. We know how RSS mind set works, and it is in the works for last 70 years, strong Punjabi economy can you imagine what could have happened? so the Punjabi there had to look towards appeasing Delhi and beyond, the younger generation adopted what was "acceptable behavior from delhi" it does not mean punjabis in general accepted that culture.

Its the same like us the west expect a certain level of "moderate Muslims" thus we have that type in every city, use your imagination of what those "moderate Muslims" are, same with Indian Punjabi.

If you go there with the exception of signboards and the language used you wont find too much of a difference between our villages and theirs. Their police is as good as Punajb Police, that's why it is called "punjab police"

Traveled from Lahore to Amritsar all along the road its beautiful plantation of a tree "i forgot the name" which is pleasing looking and bio-diesel is made from it. Hindi is spoken but not really welcome, they will light up Sikhs particularly if you speak Punjabi, Muslims express guarded views but Sikhs are pretty open. Urdu they will listen but prefer to reply in Punjabi, since our (my family's) punjabi is almost the same as their they not only recognize our area but welcome as their own kin. That's about language.

Their elder generation, younger ones are fighting to protect their heritage and language, given they haven't produced any big name in writing/poetry besides khushwant singh but as far as singing goes please look beyond mainstream media, one name that immediately comes to mind is Kanwar Grewal one from the younger generation but down to earth, met him a real punjabi.

I don't know deep Punjabi but I can sense the drift of the songs. One of the older Punjabi sufi singers in India is Prof. Madan Gopal Singh. I have a song of his ( Heer ? ) of my pen drive.

@ps3linux

Already provided some feedback, sorry missed his name "Madan Gopal Singh" watched his DVD uninterrupted "Chaar Yaar - The Faqiri Quartet"

Point is there is so much junk coming out of there that a few gems they have get buried underneath it so much so that they almost seem non existent. Even more infuriating is the fact that above brainless idiots calling those protecting the lang.
Dont get me wrong some time back surfing through youtube i came across young man from rural Punjab doing poetry in a group. That guy had pure class. I cant even find that now. I am sure there are many such. But what is getting preserved and what is not. You know that as well as me.

 

[ps3linux]

Point is there is so much junk coming out of there that a few gems they have get buried underneath it so much so that they almost seem non existent. Even more infuriating is the fact that above brainless idiots calling those protecting the lang.
Dont get me wrong some time back surfing through youtube i came across young man from rural Punjab doing poetry in a group. That guy had pure class. I cant even find that now. I am sure there are many such. But what is getting preserved and what is not. You know that as well as me.

Don't get me wrong brother we are an independent country, even in the provinces we are pretty much independent in following our culture, language. Punjabis of East Punjab primarily Sikhs and Muslims they are a minority there, the onslaught on their culture, language and religious values was relentless. It was particularly very strong during the indira and following era, sikhs did realize it post golden temple era.

Ever since they have been fighting to preserves their culture, language and way of life. I have traveled to dozens of countries and have never met a Sikh who would speak any language except the local language (Thai in Thailand, Chinese/English/Malay in Singapore/Malaysia, Cantonese/English in Hong Kong, same with Europe and many European and western countries) and Punjabi. I have never seen them speaking Hindi at least in my experience. They prefer punjabi or the local language or english.

If it is said that they have preserved Punjabi culture its not too far from the truth. Food in east Punjab is more or less the same as our, may be evening activities differ somewhat. Sultan Rahi and Anjuman movies used to be hot item there.

What we have done or doing to our Punjabi culture here is another discussion. Ever since liaquat ali's bureaucracy and some other communities started abusing Punjabi it became a fashion, be it Sind, be it Bangladesh, be it KPK, be it Baluchistan and be it Kashmir. You would not want to listen to the derogatory remarks each one of them utter about Punjab and Punjabis, Punjabi as a language deliberately labelled as a language of uncultured/uneducated people we Punjabis became defensive, not all of us but a large majority has been consciously in an effort to get away from the label been pushing away from our roots. Giving up language/culture and even food.

Its only in the last couple of years that there has been an effort to be proud of our heritage/culture and other things. I would say people like Pindi Boys have a big impact towards that end.

These are my thoughts and not a verdict which I want to impose upon others, everyone can make up their own mind.

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

Don't get me wrong brother we are an independent country, even in the provinces we are pretty much independent in following our culture, language. Punjabis of East Punjab primarily Sikhs and Muslims they are a minority there, the onslaught on their culture, language and religious values was relentless. It was particularly very strong during the indira and following era, sikhs did realize it post golden temple era.

Ever since they have been fighting to preserves their culture, language and way of life. I have traveled to dozens of countries and have never met a Sikh who would speak any language except the local language (Thai in Thailand, Chinese/English/Malay in Singapore/Malaysia, Cantonese/English in Hong Kong, same with Europe and many European and western countries) and Punjabi. I have never seen them speaking Hindi at least in my experience. They prefer punjabi or the local language or english.

If it is said that they have preserved Punjabi culture its not too far from the truth. Food in east Punjab is more or less the same as our, may be evening activities differ somewhat. Sultan Rahi and Anjuman movies used to be hot item there.

What we have done or doing to our Punjabi culture here is another discussion. Ever since liaquat ali's bureaucracy and some other communities started abusing Punjabi it became a fashion, be it Sind, be it Bangladesh, be it KPK, be it Baluchistan and be it Kashmir. You would not want to listen to the derogatory remarks each one of them utter about Punjab and Punjabis, Punjabi as a language deliberately labelled as a language of uncultured/uneducated people we Punjabis became defensive, not all of us but a large majority has been consciously in an effort to get away from the label been pushing away from our roots. Giving up language/culture and even food.

Its only in the last couple of years that there has been an effort to be proud of our heritage/culture and other things. I would say people like Pindi Boys have a big impact towards that end.

These are my thoughts and not a verdict which I want to impose upon other, everyone can make up their own mind.

So here is my take, being native to Central Punjab and growing up in a village in that area, plus spending considerable time in both Faisalabad and Lahore, along with neighboring cities.

Punjabi is not in danger at all. Actually it is the preferred form of communication by all Punjabis and even Non-Punjabis living in Punjab. In Punjab, it is the lingua franca.

I know you have some burger elites who don't like it, but vast vast majority of Punjabis speak excellent Punjabi.

In Pakistan, our culture is very natural and down to earth. You never feel that it is forced. This is why I love Pakistani culture, because of its authenticity.

Even when I go to other parts of Pakistan, sometimes I will have people try to converse with me in Punjabi because they have so much love for our language. As soon as I say I am from Faisalabad, every single Pakistani's eyes light up, whether in the length and breadth of Pakistan or in the diaspora.

As for Sikh Punjabi, their language is very different and I don't really want to delve deeply as they have many, many issues within their society which we don't share.

I still believe strongly that Pakistani Punjabis have more similarities to Pukhtoon, Pahari, Hindkowan, Seraikis, and Kashmiris than Sikhs, including language.

 

[M.AsfandYar]

Seraikis

I ve never understood difference between Punjabi and Seraiki. A lot of students in my batch are from south and seraiki belt, more than the north and central. I have no trouble whatsoever understanding. I will go as far as saying what they speak in pretty close to what i speak. Sure some pronunciations are different and they say somethings differently than i would.
TBH i have had more trouble understanding people from Kotli Sattian and areas above Rawalpindi (infact i can barely understand them) than from Multan RahimYar Khan DG Khan.

 

[TheGreatMaratha]

Punjabis of East Punjab primarily Sikhs and Muslims they are a minority there, the onslaught on their culture, language and religious values was relentless. It was particularly very strong during the indira and following era, sikhs did realize it post golden temple era.

Just wow. I hope you know that there are Hindu Punjabis as well (One family even lives in my own locality). Indian Punjabis (both Hindus and Sikhs) are fully proud of their culture and language. There's no onslaught as such.

Earlier, Punjabi as a language was compulsory in government schools but now it's mandatory in private schools as well. (Students still had an option between Punjabi and Hindi).

Now tell me, where the proud Punjabis of Pakistan stand over here. Oh right, they don't even teach Punjabi in schools lol. And then complain that Punjabi is coming under onslaught in India.

https://theprint.in/politics/punjab...pulsory-first-language-in-all-schools/374775/

 

[Shantanu_Left]

I see nothing wrong with this thread as some Pakistanis have complained. It's a genuine curiosity of an Indian user about the Pakistan-side Punjab. You must help him, and not accuse him of pushing any agenda. It's an authentic inquiry.

I know next to nothing about Pakistan-specific dialects such as Seraiki etc. although I can understand Seraiki perfectly. It's just harder for me to reproduce.

Most Indian users observe that unlike in Indian Punjab, Punjabi language is not used officially in its written form. There is Urdu for that. And there is nothing wrong with it: the Pakistanis prefer using Urdu for all formal communications between different ethnic groups.

However, in India, it's very different. Any attempts to push Hindi as an official language in non-Hindi states is met with huge resistance. So, I guess the Indian users fail to understand why the Pakistanis in Punjab are OK with Urdu being used as the official language in the region. I haven't been to Pakistan but from what it appears of the various videos I saw, the Punjabi language is not losing out in any way. Also, all the Pakistanis I have met in real life automatically switch to Urdu even after we speak in Punjabi for a while.

It's not a forced thing but a simple linguistic stuff called "code-switching". It seems the Pakistanis of Punjab have no genuine issues with using either language as long as you want to (In the Indian Punjab, some Sikhs [but not Hindus] will get genuinely angry if you don't speak Punjabi to them, and use Hindi instead(. Let's leave it at that as it's part of their internal culture. But even in Indian Punjabi culture, it's very open-minded generally. and Hindi is accepted along side Punjabi.

@Joe Shearer