Why Pakistan needs more provinces

[I.R.A]

The question is how to create new provinces? It creates huge provincial issues? We all know its good.

The first step would be to get that census done as early as possible.

Second step the criteria should be based on following

• Resources
• Area
• Manpower
• Population
• Culture

If a region is found unable to generate its own revenue may be it can be merged with more closer and similar unit. People are getting ignored, regions are getting ignored just because someone wouldn't let go of exploiting that region's resources.

 

[saiyan0321]

The first step would be to get that census done as early as possible.

Second step the criteria should be based on following

• Resources
• Area
• Manpower
• Population
• Culture

If a region is found unable to generate its own revenue may be it can be merged with more closer and similar unit. People are getting ignored, regions are getting ignored just because someone wouldn't let go of exploiting that region's resources.

The thing is this is how it will most likely go.

Sindh: anybody that tries to break sindh dharti we will leave the federation. And this will come from bilawal and PPP and he said this before.

Baluchistan: they will scream that's its a Punjabi non Baluchi conspiracy to weaken Baluchistan and they once took our resources and are now taking our land.

Kpk: they divided the brethren through Durand line and they are diving us again through another line.

Punjab: jag Punjabi jag bullshit and same thing...


The thing is we have strong political parties based here who will threaten the federation if this is even suggested and after east pakistan, nobody has the guts to take them on their say.

We need a party that has won seats in all provincial government with massive majority to Implement this or a dictator that won't listen.

Believe me it will be a mess and those people who are exploiting will raise arms aka the sardars in 2007 when they started to demand more money yet the people weren't getting jack shit.

How to combat this ethnicism which is played and will be played?

We simply can't make provinces. We are not mature enough.

 

[I.R.A]

The thing is this is how it will most likely go.

Sindh: anybody that tries to break sindh dharti we will leave the federation. And this will come from bilawal and PPP and he said this before.

Baluchistan: they will scream that's its a Punjabi non Baluchi conspiracy to weaken Baluchistan and they once took our resources and are now taking our land.

Kpk: they divided the brethren through Durand line and they are diving us again through another line.

Punjab: jag Punjabi jag bullshit and same thing...


The thing is we have strong political parties based here who will threaten the federation if this is even suggested and after east pakistan, nobody has the guts to take them on their say.

We need a party that has won seats in all provincial government with massive majority to Implement this or a dictator that won't listen.

Believe me it will be a mess and those people who are exploiting will raise arms aka the sardars in 2007 when they started to demand more money yet the people weren't getting jack shit.

How to combat this ethnicism which is played and will be played?

We simply can't make provinces. We are not mature enough.

We were answered with bullets when we resisted a name change of the province and started demanding our own province, though people of that region have always been patriotic and loyal Pakistanis.

You are afraid because you think this will happen ................ what if you properly follow the whole process, if billions can be spent on useless ads trying to prove that you performed your duties to some extent, I think some money can be spared on reaching people and teaching people about why it's necessary "that they take charge of their region's problems and resources". At start people would resist the change but once they get familiar with the benefits of change they understand why it was necessary.

Your fears may come true in any case because the level of deprivation is so obvious that even educated lot from a region cannot resist the feeling of being ignored. There is no guarantee that someday deprived people and regions would raise more dangerous slogans.

Its just that we don't want people to have their own voice otherwise maturity has nothing to do with it because you are depriving them a chance at maturity yourself.

And when I talk about exploitation ................. I am talking of regions exploiting other regions.

 

[saiyan0321]

You are afraid because you think this will happen ................ what if you properly follow the whole process, if billions can be spent on useless ads trying to prove that you performed your duties to some extent, I think some money can be spared on reaching people and teaching people about why it's necessary "that they take charge of their region's problems and resources". At start people would resist the change but once they get familiar with the benefits of change they understand why it was necessary.

I will admit. I am afraid bcz I know it will happen. Our political parties are extremely opportunist.

Be my guest. I hate those ads. I hate the fact that the Baluchistan govt just increase the ad budget in its provincial govt for simple fact of self glorification of a mediocre job done in the province. I would personally love a tax based upon this form of education for the teaching and maturing of people on how to utilize their own region and govts and to utilize their power of vote.

Hey I have advocated twenty provinces and the creation of all previous divisions into provinces. I still advocate. For example the south punjab lies in ruins bcz the punjab provincial govt is too northern punjab centric and simply and administratively are not competent enough to handle a widely populated province like punjab. The same goes for all other provinces. Many regions and areas are deprived bcz the govts simply find it easier to exploit and ignore them. The provincial govts scream favoritism to federal but they do the same to their own regions as well.

Your fears may come true in any case because the level of deprivation is so obvious that even educated lot from a region cannot resist the feeling of being ignored. There is no guarantee that someday deprived people and regions would raise more dangerous slogans.

Yeah

And your second part is the reason why I say this must happen but to make sure the first part doesn't happen so a plan has to be made then. If educating them about this is the way to go then as I said I will happily pay that tax from my income bcz it will actually go towards something good and beneficial.

Its just that we don't want people to have their own voice otherwise maturity has nothing to do with it because you are depriving them a chance at maturity yourself.

And when I talk about exploitation ................. I am talking of regions exploiting other regions

Yes I understand. Your first part of the post made it clear.


Listen of it was up to me you would see twenty instead of four. Divisions becomes provinces but the current govt is so weak on stellar reforms that they are struggling with FATA reforms.

I hope one day it does happen. I am all for it.

 

[Narcissist]

Mega projects of federal level get allocated in accordance with the requirements seen by the federal. For example CPEC is a federal project with China. Provinces can get their projects into CPEC for example we have sindh trying to allocate some energy projects into CPEC by dealing with China and we also have Baluchistan govt which also got couple of projects one agri I believe into CPEC.

CPEC was originally the western road but to benefit Punjab and sindh the eastern road was created as well along with the western road.

The thing is that Punjab is heavily populated and in our kind of democracy where population decides seats, parties try to appeal to that massive vote bank aka we have bilawal creating district level teams for Punjab sector, we have seen imran's obsession with Punjab vote and BNP mengal a very nationalist party has also created teams to do politics in Punjab.

Its not punjabs fault if the federal is pandering to the majority, something every democracy and all political parties do bcz the federal will not be able to get reelected if it does not pander to a majority.

The one we elect on its first day does not think about what he should do for his country's good but what he should that would help him get elected after five years.

CPEC reservations are not be taken with Punjab but with federal government in power. Tomorrow it could be PTI. Think like a federation.

Each provinces have their own budgets and the federal have their own budgets. The federal government and a foreign govt have started a mega project that will cross various provinces. Now those provinces have to deal with federal for more projects and not with other provinces. Aka the kpk govt dealing with the federal govt on CPEC reservations.

But this is federal structure.


I was talking mostly about provincial structure and the power of provincial development that the provincial govts have and how now the lack of development in provinces and stalling of progress is squarely to be blamed on provincial govts. You can blame federal as well but not Punjab or kpk or any other province.

This is the problem, and can easily be resolved by dividing Punjab only. If Punjab isn't 100M, but is 3 separate provinces, the problem of pandering to only 1 is resolved. Viola.

Think of how much tourism we'd have if the country stopped wasting it's time on agriculture, developed the north, and focused on security instead.

Kpk: they divided the brethren through Durand line and they are diving us again through another line.

lol... how about merging FATA with KPK, since KPK is already divided by having a separate FATA. "Durand line" is not any Pakistani's fault... nor is it something anyone in Pakistan has blamed Pakistan for.

I think Kaptaan has the most valid argument for why division isn't helpful. It's all cosmetic anyways. Current province structure helps citizens retain their heritage too.

 

[I.R.A]

@saiyan0321 when I said you ............ I meant state of Pakistan......... not you.

From simple life experience delegation is always good, it helps in promoting accountability, effective utilisation of resources and quick decision making plus its efficient and saves a lot of time. May we understand this someday.

 

[saiyan0321]

This is the problem, and can easily be resolved by dividing Punjab only. If Punjab isn't 100M, but is 3 separate provinces, the problem of pandering to only 1 is resolved. Viola.

Be my guest. I am huge advocator of provinces. It won't solve the problems of other provinces though bcz major crux of development now lie with provincial govts and then the most populated province ( whoever that may become) would get pandering bcz it would look an easy vote bank. Its a thing about democracy.

Think of how much tourism we'd have if the country stopped wasting it's time on agriculture, developed the north, and focused on security instead.

Agriculture is our basic lifeline. You don't suddenly stop one thing and focus on the other. The day you stop agriculture is the day pakistan starves. In fact recently the gilgit baltistan govt, kpk govt and Baluchistan govt have started various projects to increase the agricultural setup and extend its capabilities. Like the US we are an agricultural country and like the US we can be agricultural whilst focusing on the tourism of north, the resources of south as well as creating a pool of intellectual resource to focus on IT.

Tourism is a huge potential in pakistan and since you are new here you will notice me openly stating that pakistan holds the heaven on earth in the north and is one of the few countries that can offer any form of tourism at any time of the year. From deserts, to northern snowy mountains, to agricultural plains, to beaches, from historical adventures thousands of years old, to the mines of salt ranges, from cultural diversity to the beauty of forests. Tourism can be a huge potential but if you want pakistan to maximize it's potential then agriculture can never be ignored.

Work on security is very important and its a huge topic and the roles of provincial governments and their competency play a huge part. For example for all the dolphin forces in lahore, people still get robbed yet the complete restructuring and increasing the capability of kpk police saw terror and crime rates drop and security heightened. Its a huge topic.

Develop the north, south, east west and for that we need good governments and capable governments. The only one any worth it's salt is PTI due to their educational as well as police reforms. Their police is impressive.

lol... how about merging FATA with KPK, since KPK is already divided by having a separate FATA. "Durand line" is not any Pakistani's fault... nor is it something anyone in Pakistan has blamed Pakistan for.

I was simply highlighting the gutterness of our politicians and their oppurtunist thinking. They are low class and for their own benefits they will say and do whatever it takes. They are loyal to only themselves. This was just an example of how low they can go..

It does not highlight my own thoughts.

As for merging FATA with kpk, I support it. You should visit other threads. FATA is more closely linked with kpk than itself on some points. A merger would be more beneficial and the intelligentsia, the lawyers, the politicians, the students, the teachers all support a merger as well as many tribesmen and their elders. There is opposition from fazlu whom I hate and the tribal elders. Its another issue that would take long discussions. I support and I update a featured thread on it with news.

I think Kaptaan has the most valid argument for why division isn't helpful. It's all cosmetic anyways. Current province structure helps citizens retain their heritage too.

Yes he has made very valid points and not only do I agree with them but I have also said the same thing many times about how division is difficult especially with the structure we have of a federation but remember some will agree and some will disagree for example I advocate more provinces but I am not blind to the economical and provincial and nationalistic facts that stand against it and they are extremely true.

His example was brilliant and that's exactly our situation.

 

[Narcissist]

Be my guest. I am huge advocator of provinces. It won't solve the problems of other provinces though bcz major crux of development now lie with provincial govts and then the most populated province ( whoever that may become) would get pandering bcz it would look an easy vote bank. Its a thing about democracy.

Agriculture is our basic lifeline. You don't suddenly stop one thing and focus on the other. The day you stop agriculture is the day pakistan starves. In fact recently the gilgit baltistan govt, kpk govt and Baluchistan govt have started various projects to increase the agricultural setup and extend its capabilities. Like the US we are an agricultural country and like the US we can be agricultural whilst focusing on the tourism of north, the resources of south as well as creating a pool of intellectual resource to focus on IT.

Tourism is a huge potential in pakistan and since you are new here you will notice me openly stating that pakistan holds the heaven on earth in the north and is one of the few countries that can offer any form of tourism at any time of the year. From deserts, to northern snowy mountains, to agricultural plains, to beaches, from historical adventures thousands of years old, to the mines of salt ranges, from cultural diversity to the beauty of forests. Tourism can be a huge potential but if you want pakistan to maximize it's potential then agriculture can never be ignored.

Work on security is very important and its a huge topic and the roles of provincial governments and their competency play a huge part. For example for all the dolphin forces in lahore, people still get robbed yet the complete restructuring and increasing the capability of kpk police saw terror and crime rates drop and security heightened. Its a huge topic.

Develop the north, south, east west and for that we need good governments and capable governments. The only one any worth it's salt is PTI due to their educational as well as police reforms. Their police is impressive.



I was simply highlighting the gutterness of our politicians and their oppurtunist thinking. They are low class and for their own benefits they will say and do whatever it takes. They are loyal to only themselves. This was just an example of how low they can go..

It does not highlight my own thoughts.

As for merging FATA with kpk, I support it. You should visit other threads. FATA is more closely linked with kpk than itself on some points. A merger would be more beneficial and the intelligentsia, the lawyers, the politicians, the students, the teachers all support a merger as well as many tribesmen and their elders. There is opposition from fazlu whom I hate and the tribal elders. Its another issue that would take long discussions. I support and I update a featured thread on it with news.



Yes he has made very valid points and not only do I agree with them but I have also said the same thing many times about how division is difficult especially with the structure we have of a federation but remember some will agree and some will disagree for example I advocate more provinces but I am not blind to the economical and provincial and nationalistic facts that stand against it and they are extremely true.

His example was brilliant and that's exactly our situation.

The thing is pakistan is in a somewhat unique situation. It's got a high population, with one province comprising of half the entire population. This has been the cause of most of the issues people bring up.

I should've worded it better... I'm not implying drop agriculture and focus on tourism. I'm saying there's such a disproportionately high focus on agriculture, that nearly all other industries get left of the way side.

The US is not agricultural. They're a tertiary sector economy. Agriculture is a very small part of their economy.

Glad to see we agree on the KPK + FATA, and tourism points.

 

[Hell hound]

This is the problem, and can easily be resolved by dividing Punjab only. If Punjab isn't 100M, but is 3 separate provinces, the problem of pandering to only 1 is resolved. Viola.

our provinces are based on ethnic groups.you can't just divide/slash one and leave other standing. either all must go or no one is going anywhere.it is simple as that.
@The Sandman @django @Moonlight @Zibago @Chauvinist guys give this thread a read and start from beginning of page 4 to get the understanding.

 

[AshenSparrow]

One question, Karachi should be separate province?

Yes, it is evident from when Zardari organised mass-migration from interior Sindh to Karachi in order to influence elections and change the demographic that Karachi needs to be its own province, it will more than certainly be better off since it will be able to recruit Karachiites into public offices instead of Sindhis filling everything up due to Provincial rules.

our provinces are based on ethnic groups.you can't just divide/slash one and leave other standing. either all must go or no one is going anywhere.it is simple as that.
@The Sandman @django @Moonlight @Zibago @Chauvinist guys give this thread a read and start from beginning of page 4 to get the understanding.

Why should provinces be built on ethnic lines? It is a disastrous way to govern a nation, simply asking for trouble. Just look at what is happening in the UK when provinces were England, Scotland, Wales and Ireland. First Ireland fought for its independence, and now Scotland.

 

[Kabira]

Yes, it is evident from when Zardari organised mass-migration from interior Sindh to Karachi in order to influence elections and change the demographic that Karachi needs to be its own province, it will more than certainly be better off since it will be able to recruit Karachiites into public offices instead of Sindhis filling everything up due to Provincial rules.

Karachi demographics didn't change because native sindhis started to migrate there, it changed after 1947 Indian muhajirs migrated. You called Balochistan people migrants to Karachi along with Afghans and now want separate province of Karachi. It's clear you're Indian muhajir. Tomorrow when Gwader get developed and people migrate there and native population of around 1 lack become minority. You will again want Gwader to become separate province.

 

[Narcissist]

our provinces are based on ethnic groups.you can't just divide/slash one and leave other standing. either all must go or no one is going anywhere.it is simple as that.
@The Sandman @django @Moonlight @Zibago @Chauvinist guys give this thread a read and start from beginning of page 4 to get the understanding.

South Punjab identifies itself as a distinct ethnicity, and have a distinct language/dialect. Saraikis also want a province.

There is ample reason to divide punjab. However, I'm not hell bent on this. We can leave it as is, but I'm sure you'll agree that KPK borders MUST be expanded because there are many regions outside of KPK that have a pashtun majority, plus FATA merger. Agreed?

 

[Hell hound]

South Punjab identifies itself as a distinct ethnicity, and have a distinct language/dialect. Saraikis also want a province.

There is ample reason to divide punjab. However, I'm not hell bent on this. We can leave it as is, but I'm sure you'll agree that KPK borders MUST be expanded because there are many regions outside of KPK that have a pashtun majority, plus FATA merger. Agreed?

FATA should be merged into KPK because current way of decentralized governance is not bringing the desired result.

 

[Thəorətic Muslim]

I think Kaptaan has the most valid argument for why division isn't helpful. It's all cosmetic anyways. Current province structure helps citizens retain their heritage too.

Yes he has made very valid points and not only do I agree with them but I have also said the same thing many times about how division is difficult especially with the structure we have of a federation but remember some will agree and some will disagree for example I advocate more provinces but I am not blind to the economical and provincial and nationalistic facts that stand against it and they are extremely true.

Can you reference the post?

 

[Thəorətic Muslim]

Comparing Pakistan to France, Spain or China isn't the solution. You're talking about organic States that evolved into what they are now over centuries of genocide, warfare, and marriages of political dynasties.

But Pakistan does have to solve the issue of inefficiencies of distribution. Lahore isn't Punjab, Sindh isn't Karachi, and Gwadar isn't the solution to Pakistan developing it's economy.

What Pakistan is now was from the One Unit Policy. And in this there were winners who gained land, the ones who now protest against any attempt to divide the provinces, the losers integrated into the winner's families to have sway. It may have been easier considering Pakistan's limited finite resources to combine provinces to hold down the bureaucracy's salaries when the population was barely 100 million, now it's more than double.

How much power would the Zardari Dynasty have if Sindh was divided back into the original provinces? Do you think they would carry Karachi or Khairpur? What about Thar?

And we're not talking about the Baloch Chiefs. When would anyone want their power diminished?

Nuts have to be cracked for progress. Uneducated bozos educated in "Oxford University" thanks to the name of their grandfather don't know the problems the common man faces from behind their tinted bullet-resistant Toyota Prados in 100+ security convoy.