Why Pakistan had to Support Toppling of Taliban in 2001

[Meengla]

The recent BS by Imran Khan in the Parliament and must BS in this forum about how the Pakistani Generals, especially Musharraf, 'sold' Pakistan for a 'Parai Jang' (foreigner's war) for some $$ just makes me enraged! Watch this interview by Khursheed Kasuri carefully to understand what options Pakistan really had then! Pakistan would have been destroyed totally had Pakistan not cooperated!!
Mr. Kasuri is the sharpest foreign policy mind in Pakistan and PM Imran Khan is just a demagogue when it comes to foreign affairs!

 

[Tornado23]

The way I see it:

Drop support for the taliban and engage in our war on terror to later get sanctioned

Or

Don't drop support for the taliban and get sanctioned now.

 

[Meengla]

Those who know Urdu language should watch the first few minutes of the interview very carefully and realize how isolated Pakistan was then and what kind of consequences Pakistan would face. Mr Kasuri in this interview is not trying to save his own skin--it was the then Foreign Sec. Abdul Sattar who he is quoting about the circumstances Pakistan was facing. Pakistan had been under pressure to reign in the extreme policies of the Talibans and was under pressure to eliminate Al Qaida in Afghanistan. After the USS Cole attack and the attacks on the American Emabssies in Africa it was inevitable that Pakistan was going to be dragged into a huge crisis--and that's exactly what happened.

But PM Imran Khan constantly crowing about how he opposed actions against the Taliban inside Pakistan and how keeps blaming the Pakistani establishment for dragging Pakistan into 'others war' is a big lie! Peace in Pakistan came AFTER the Pakistani Army decided to finally take deep, painful actions in FATA! The terrorists had indeed found a safe haven in FATA to launch multiple attacks against Pakistani cities. The terrorists had even taken control of Swat / Malakand and I bet Imran Khan would oppose action against that too. Peace came to Pakistan because of the numerous sacrifices by the Pakistani security agencies and troops-- and NOT by appeasing the Neanderthals who Imran Khan has been calling 'Apne Log' (our people).

 

[Nasr]

They forgot to tell everyone where america sent an open and blunt threat ... I believe it something on the lines of "Either you are with us, or against us."

 

[Meengla]

Let's be clear. There are videos of Musharraf and Colin Powell after 9/11 in news conferences where Pakistan tried hard to bring in the 'good Taliban' in the govt. Pakistan had even GW Bush public ask the Northern Alliance to 'not cross the Shomaili Plains' and take over Kabul. So Pakistan had tried hard to safeguard its interests but with no major backers--not even China--willing to back Pakistan then, it was about cutting the losses. Give up the Talibans or be destroyed like Iraq (2003). Fools think that Pakistan's nukes would have made any difference! As Kasuri says: Pakistan had no options then!

But, again, PM Imran Khan is twisting the political narrative in Pakistan and keeps crowing about him being called 'The Taliban Khan'. Imran Khan dismisses the presence of 'some terrorists' in FATA as nothing to oppose the military action in FATA. Well, those 'some terrorists' had found a perfect launch pad for an insurgency which killed tens of thousands of Pakistanis. The 'dialog' which Imran Khan said he was asking with TTP was ALWAYS on the offer by all Pakistani govts: Lay down arms, live peacefully and no harm. So Imran Khan was not something unique. Opportunism or naivete!??

 

[Clutch]

Those who know Urdu language should watch the first few minutes of the interview very carefully and realize how isolated Pakistan was then and what kind of consequences Pakistan would face. Mr Kasuri in this interview is not trying to save his own skin--it was the then Foreign Sec. Abdul Sattar who he is quoting about the circumstances Pakistan was facing. Pakistan had been under pressure to reign in the extreme policies of the Talibans and was under pressure to eliminate Al Qaida in Afghanistan. After the USS Cole attack and the attacks on the American Emabssies in Africa it was inevitable that Pakistan was going to be dragged into a huge crisis--and that's exactly what happened.

But PM Imran Khan constantly crowing about how he opposed actions against the Taliban inside Pakistan and how keeps blaming the Pakistani establishment for dragging Pakistan into 'others war' is a big lie! Peace in Pakistan came AFTER the Pakistani Army decided to finally take deep, painful actions in FATA! The terrorists had indeed found a safe haven in FATA to launch multiple attacks against Pakistani cities. The terrorists had even taken control of Swat / Malakand and I bet Imran Khan would oppose action against that too. Peace came to Pakistan because of the numerous sacrifices by the Pakistani security agencies and troops-- and NOT by appeasing the Neanderthals who Imran Khan has been calling 'Apne Log' (our people).

I agree with your analysis. It is true. I am a supporter of Imran Khan however I too believe he distorts the actual events post 9/11 and provides a too simplistic position.

However, I also think that ground realities have changed now, the Talib of today are not the same of those of the 1990s.... As was stated by Kasuri in the interview

 

[Parwaz e Ishq]

The recent BS by Imran Khan in the Parliament and must BS in this forum about how the Pakistani Generals, especially Musharraf, 'sold' Pakistan for a 'Parai Jang' (foreigner's war) for some $$ just makes me enraged! Watch this interview by Khursheed Kasuri carefully to understand what options Pakistan really had then! Pakistan would have been destroyed totally had Pakistan not cooperated!!
Mr. Kasuri is the sharpest foreign policy mind in Pakistan and PM Imran Khan is just a demagogue when it comes to foreign affairs!

Those who know Urdu language should watch the first few minutes of the interview very carefully and realize how isolated Pakistan was then and what kind of consequences Pakistan would face. Mr Kasuri in this interview is not trying to save his own skin--it was the then Foreign Sec. Abdul Sattar who he is quoting about the circumstances Pakistan was facing. Pakistan had been under pressure to reign in the extreme policies of the Talibans and was under pressure to eliminate Al Qaida in Afghanistan. After the USS Cole attack and the attacks on the American Emabssies in Africa it was inevitable that Pakistan was going to be dragged into a huge crisis--and that's exactly what happened.

But PM Imran Khan constantly crowing about how he opposed actions against the Taliban inside Pakistan and how keeps blaming the Pakistani establishment for dragging Pakistan into 'others war' is a big lie! Peace in Pakistan came AFTER the Pakistani Army decided to finally take deep, painful actions in FATA! The terrorists had indeed found a safe haven in FATA to launch multiple attacks against Pakistani cities. The terrorists had even taken control of Swat / Malakand and I bet Imran Khan would oppose action against that too. Peace came to Pakistan because of the numerous sacrifices by the Pakistani security agencies and troops-- and NOT by appeasing the Neanderthals who Imran Khan has been calling 'Apne Log' (our people).

1- America threatened to attack North Korea & Iran. They didn't bow down. America couldn't do anything.

2- Had America attacked Pakistan, india would have strengthened by it. India would have become another regional power behind China & a potential super power in future.
No way America can afford the rise of another power. They would have to fight india & china in 2020s had they attacked Pakistan in 2001.

There's no way they could attack Pakistan.

Imran Khan was right that Military Establishment sold us to America after 9/11.

 

[Zarvan]

The recent BS by Imran Khan in the Parliament and must BS in this forum about how the Pakistani Generals, especially Musharraf, 'sold' Pakistan for a 'Parai Jang' (foreigner's war) for some $$ just makes me enraged! Watch this interview by Khursheed Kasuri carefully to understand what options Pakistan really had then! Pakistan would have been destroyed totally had Pakistan not cooperated!!
Mr. Kasuri is the sharpest foreign policy mind in Pakistan and PM Imran Khan is just a demagogue when it comes to foreign affairs!

Pakistan had lot of options. Also I want to tell you one thing. Over whelming amount of Generals in the Army pretty much all core commanders opposed Musharraf move. They have discipline that is why they followed it. And yes great move that move got us killed 70000 Pakistanis and we are still in a war against TTP and also Baluchistan on fire. So wow great move. How many Pakistanis lives would it take for you and others like you to stop defending that disaster known as Musharraf.

@Meengla

 

[Parwaz e Ishq]

There are 2 sorts of people.
1- Who fear Allah
2- who fear america & technology

Musharraf & Milt.Estab. was & is in 2nd category.


No one was labelling Pakistan as terrorist (sponsoring) state even after 9/11. BUT, after our leaders submitted to America, now pakistanis are generally labelled as terrorist in the West.

We have paid a heavy price of mistakes maid by our earlier leaders.

Pakistan had lot of options. Also I want to tell you one thing. Over whelming amount of Generals in the Army pretty much all core commanders opposed Musharraf move. They have discipline that is why they followed it. And yes great move that move got us killed 70000 Pakistanis and we are still in a war against TTP and also Baluchistan on fire. So wow great move. How many Pakistanis lives would it take for you and others like you to stop defending that disaster known as Musharraf.

@Meengla

Friends & Sympathizers of our enemy will support enemy until they themselves or their close relatives become victim of the war.

Close relatives of those 70,000 who were killed in this foreign war will tell you how much they hate America & pakistani puppets.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

how isolated Pakistan

I have heard Mr Kasuri speak on the subject. The issue here is not binary. You make it like either all or nothing. Bomb to stone age or become America's prostitute. There is lot of space on that spectrum between both ends of the pole.

Why was Pakistan so isolated? That itself was result of the commonado and his lust for self glory. And when America came knocking Musharaf just bent like a banana leaf. Point here is a better deal could have been extracted. To use words of Gen Zia Pakistan got peanuts.

But Musharaf had already proven to be craven commando. In Gen Zinni's book he says

Pakistan's civilian leadership was worried about a loss of face that the withdrawal could have caused and to allay their fears President Bill Clinton offered a plan that could have arranged a respectable withdrawal.

But even at this stage, according to General Zinni, Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif and his civilian colleagues appeared reluctant to endorse a withdrawal. That got Musharraf's attention, and he encouraged Prime Minister Sharif to hear me out," writes Gen. Zinni.

This exposes the fact that Nawaz Sharif was actually reluctant withdrawing forces from Kargil and Gen Musharaf was the one pushing Sharif to accept the American proposal. This is the backbone this man had. So few years later when Americans again came knocking Musharaf jumped up like proper pankawallah and gave everything away for few dollars.

Zinni's book throws light on Kargil withdrawal

WASHINGTON, June 3: It was President Pervez Musharraf who advised former Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif to listen to ...

www.dawn.com

 

[Silverblaze]

mr. khan himself said we had no choice.

yes Pak could have disputed some points but Pak leadership never had the acumen needed throughout history or we would be in a better position.

 

[Deltadart]

The recent BS by Imran Khan in the Parliament and must BS in this forum about how the Pakistani Generals, especially Musharraf, 'sold' Pakistan for a 'Parai Jang' (foreigner's war) for some $$ just makes me enraged! Watch this interview by Khursheed Kasuri carefully to understand what options Pakistan really had then! Pakistan would have been destroyed totally had Pakistan not cooperated!!
Mr. Kasuri is the sharpest foreign policy mind in Pakistan and PM Imran Khan is just a demagogue when it comes to foreign affairs!

You along with other Musharraf apologists always overlook one important fact that the coward commando made a unilateral decision in the traditions of the corrupt and incompetent emperors of yesteryears. He didn't even consult with the most important corp commanders, much less anyone else. He is the one who gave credence to the saying that Pakistan was a one stop shop for the foreign powers. Just stop by ghq and you are good to go with anything. Moreover, he allowed the foreign powers to play the civilians and the military against each other, to the determent of the nation. A similar strategy was at work during the recent bases discussions, but the outcome was totally different.

He handed over the country on the platter to the US for perpetuity. Even the US officials were shocked at what was being offered to them. They didn't expect total capitulation from Musharraf, but he surprised them. Please check the statements of the American officials of the time.

Matter fact, Musharraf simply freaked out after, the call, and signed the surrender document without consulting with anyone. He forgot that all of the highjackers were from a certain wealthy middle eastern country, and not from Pakistan.

Musharraf was a lier, a cheat and a coward, and a disgrace to the position. He did tremendous damage to the country with his short sighted, reckless policies. He was the patron of MQM, and father of NROs and the killer of nawab Akbar Bugti, and the resurgence of insurgency in balochistan. Therefore, no matter how much his followers try to portray him as the Savior of the nation, but he was anything but that...

 

[araz]

The recent BS by Imran Khan in the Parliament and must BS in this forum about how the Pakistani Generals, especially Musharraf, 'sold' Pakistan for a 'Parai Jang' (foreigner's war) for some $$ just makes me enraged! Watch this interview by Khursheed Kasuri carefully to understand what options Pakistan really had then! Pakistan would have been destroyed totally had Pakistan not cooperated!!
Mr. Kasuri is the sharpest foreign policy mind in Pakistan and PM Imran Khan is just a demagogue when it comes to foreign affairs!

No one who is sane doubts the danger Pakistan was in and at that time it was imperative that we sided up with the US. However, what I have failed to understand is why Musharraf collapsed like a house of cards in the USA. He could have offered support to them on the surface but behind the scene he should have bargained hard for maximum leverage in favour of Pakistan.
Our problem remains that we were not in the negotiating room to be able to grasp the nature of the conversation that took place. Was there room for negotiations or was this a simple case of "do or die"!!
Till we have an independent account of the minutes and contents of the meetings between US and Pakistan it will forever remain a mystery. Did Musharraf sell Pakistan short for the sake of his own seat? or were things really that bad that there was no room for manoeuvring? This is the question that needs to be asked.
A

You along with other Musharraf apologists always overlook one important fact that the fake commando made a unilateral decision in the traditions of emperor of the old days. Didn't even consult with the most important corp commanders.
He even gave a lot more than what was being asked for, please check the statements of American officials of the time.
He freaked out and signed the surrender document without consulting with anyone.
He was a lier, a cheat and a coward. That will never change about him.

I m aware of this line of thinking but the question is under what duress and what was offered to him in return? We should not comment till we know what actually went on behind closed doors. However, I have always maintained Pakistan was sold short.
A

 

[Menace2Society]

Should never have got involved in Afghanistan in the 80s, should never have let the border stay open and should have closed the border as soon as Afghan invasion was announced.

And why the f**k was this Taliban who look like they are out of a Aladdin movie allowed to gain so much traction. If you Pakistan hadn't had supported briezienski with his obvious attempt at radicalizing Pakistan to make it the bogeyman of the future and you fell for it.

I would call that a strategic blunder that you are still paying a price for.

 

[araz]

mr. khan himself said we had no choice.

yes Pak could have disputed some points but Pak leadership never had the acumen needed throughout history or we would be in a better position.

It needed a bit of homework, and some gritty negotiating which the Pakistani establishment did not do or were not allowed to do. Again no one knows the reasons. And Musharraf is aninterested party so his account will be biased.
A

Should never have got involved in Afghanistan in the 80s, should never have let the border stay open and should have closed the border as soon as Afghan invasion was announced.

I would call that a strategic blunder that you are still paying a price for.

Again a short sighted approach bereft of assesssment of the situation of the times. Even if you tried you could not have avoided it. It was fait accompli.