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Why has Pak lost against India every time?

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It's a well known fact. If you deny that then you're in denial.

That was not sarcasm, i really dont have a source proving that indian army was behind the "murder" of about 80,000 Kashmiris"
so i still ask u for one.


If you could be more precise as to what you're talking about, I would be able to understand you. Atm, I got no idea.

That was sarcasm if u had seen the report more clearly u would have understood it.


Table of Disputed Territories: Comparative Measures of Freedom

Trend Arrow Country and Territory PR CL Freedom Rating

Armenia/Azerbaijan
Nagorno-Karabakh 5 5 Partly Free

China
Tibet 7 7 Not Free

Cyprus
Northern (Turkish) Cyprus 2 2 Free

Georgia
Abkhazia 5 5 Partly Free

India
Kashmir 5 5 Partly Free

Israel
Israeli-Occupied Territories 6 5 Not Free
Palestinian Authority- 4 ▲ 6 ▼ Partly Free
Administered Territories

Moldova
Transnistria 6 6 Not Free

Morocco
Western Sahara 7 6 Not Free

Pakistan
Kashmir 7 5 Not Free

Russia
Chechnya 7 7 Not Free

Serbia
Kosovo 6 5 Not Free

Somalia
Somaliland 5 4 Partly Free

http://www.freedomhouse.org/uploads/press_release/fiw07_charts.pdf

see the bolded territories ..?
Their presence in the list proves that a dispute need not be in the limelight to merit its inclusion in the "not free" category.

Even Israeli-Occupied Territories are in the "not free" category (as opposed to Palestinian Authority-Administered Territories which are "partly free")...and doesnt this fact itself contradict ur conjecture that this report was contrived with judeowestern intrests in mind..??

You just need an objective mind to realize that this report is more or less balanced.

and thnx for the link.
 
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Right, here's a link. And this link is only about the last 17 years, not since 1947. http://www.speroforum.com/site/article.asp?id=6974

And again, these kinds of reports are not to be taken seriously. These guys probably don't know whats happening in Indian occupied Kashmir since there is basically no media coverage. There is also very little coverage of Palestinians getting killed by Israeli Terrorist Forces. If an Isreali dies by a Palestinian suicide bomber, it tends to make breaking news on a lot of world channels. can't say the same if a palestinian gets killed. It would be worth finding out if the news reaches most news sources or not. You need an indian mind to realize that this report is balanced. Any sane mind would realize that Kashmir has had very little media coverage.
 
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Ok dude.. a typo. And whatever Pakistan gained independence from, it was splitting india into 3 parts.

What you laughing at? Have you never seen a typo in your life or have never made one?

that was not abt ur typo ...its abt the two parts-three parts argument

which has been quite well refuted by vnomad i shud say..:lol:
 
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Lilo,

On what basis is the above rating have been given? I can't seem to open the PDF file for some reason.

As far as the word "free" is concerned in this scenerio. What does it mean. Human rights violation in the Indian occupied Kashmir counts or does it count the Indian government ignoring the interest of the Kashmiris? Democracy as they call it.
 
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Lilo,

On what basis is the above rating have been given? I can't seem to open the PDF file for some reason.

As far as the word "free" is concerned in this scenerio. What does it mean. Human rights violation in the Indian occupied Kashmir counts or does it count the Indian government ignoring the interest of the Kashmiris? Democracy as they call it.



Table of Independent Countries: Comparative Measures of Freedom



Trend Arrow Country PR CL Freedom Rating
Afghanistan 5 5 Partly Free
↑ Albania* 3 3 Partly Free
Algeria 6 5 Not Free
Andorra* 1 1 Free
Angola 6 5 Not Free
Antigua and Barbuda* 2 2 Free
↓ Argentina* 2 2 Free
Armenia 5 4 Partly Free
Australia* 1 1 Free
Austria* 1 1 Free
↓ Azerbaijan 6 5 Not Free
Bahamas* 1 1 Free
↓ Bahrain 5 5 Partly Free
Bangladesh* 4 4 Partly Free
Barbados* 1 1 Free
Belarus 7 6 Not Free
Belgium* 1 1 Free
Belize* 1 2 Free
↑ Benin* 2 2 Free
Bhutan 6 5 Not Free
Bolivia* 3 3 Partly Free
Bosnia-Herzegovina 3 ▲ 3 Partly Free
Botswana* 2 2 Free
↓ Brazil* 2 2 Free
Brunei 6 5 Not Free
Bulgaria* 1 2 Free
Burkina Faso 5 3 Partly Free
↓ Burma 7 7 Not Free
Burundi* 4 ▼ 5 Partly Free
Cambodia 6 5 Not Free
Cameroon 6 6 Not Free
Canada* 1 1 Free
Cape Verde* 1 1 Free
Central African Republic* 5 4 Partly Free







Trend Arrow Country PR CL Freedom Rating
Chad 6 6 ▼ Not Free
Chile* 1 1 Free
China 7 6 Not Free
Colombia* 3 3 Partly Free
Comoros* 3 ▲ 4 Partly Free
Congo (Brazzaville) 6 ▼ 5 Not Free
Congo (Kinshasa) 5 ▲ 6 Not Free
Costa Rica* 1 1 Free
Cote d’Ivoire 7 ▼ 6 Not Free
↑ Croatia* 2 2 Free
Cuba 7 7 Not Free
Cyprus* 1 1 Free
Czech Republic* 1 1 Free
Denmark* 1 1 Free
Djibouti 5 5 Partly Free
Dominica* 1 1 Free
Dominican Republic* 2 2 Free
East Timor* 3 4 ▼ Partly Free
Ecuador* 3 3 Partly Free
↓ Egypt 6 5 Not Free
El Salvador* 2 3 Free
Equatorial Guinea 7 6 Not Free
↓ Eritrea 7 6 Not Free
Estonia* 1 1 Free
↓ Ethiopia 5 5 Partly Free
Fiji 6▼ 4▼ Partly Free
Finland* 1 1 Free
France* 1 1 Free
Gabon 6 4 Partly Free
↓ The Gambia 5 4 Partly Free
Georgia* 3 3 Partly Free
Germany* 1 1 Free
Ghana* 1 2 Free
Greece* 1 2 Free
Grenada* 1 2 Free
Guatemala* 3 ▲ 4 Partly Free
Guinea 6 5 Not Free
Guinea-Bissau* 4 ▼ 4 Partly Free







Trend Arrow Country PR CL Freedom Rating
Guyana* 2 ▲ 3 Free
Haiti* 4 ▲ 5 ▲ Partly Free
Honduras* 3 3 Partly Free
↓ Hungary* 1 1 Free
Iceland* 1 1 Free
India* 2 3 Free
Indonesia* 2 3 Free
↓ Iran 6 6 Not Free
Iraq 6 6 ▼ Not Free
Ireland* 1 1 Free
Israel* 1 2 Free
↑ Italy* 1 1 Free
Jamaica* 2 3 Free
Japan* 1 2 Free
Jordan 5 4 Partly Free
Kazakhstan 6 5 Not Free
↓ Kenya* 3 3 Partly Free
Kiribati* 1 1 Free
Kuwait 4 4 ▲ Partly Free
↓ Kyrgyzstan 5 4 Partly Free
Laos 7 6 Not Free
Latvia* 1 1 Free
Lebanon 5 4 Partly Free
Lesotho* 2 3 Free
Liberia* 3 ▲ 4 Partly Free
Libya 7 7 Not Free
Liechtenstein* 1 1 Free
Lithuania* 1 1 Free
Luxembourg* 1 1 Free
Macedonia* 3 3 Partly Free
Madagascar* 4▼ 3 Partly Free
Malawi* 4 3 ▲ Partly Free
↓ Malaysia 4 4 Partly Free
↑ Maldives 6 5 Not Free
Mali* 2 2 Free
Malta* 1 1 Free
Marshall Islands* 1 1 Free
Mauritania 5 ▲ 4 Partly Free







Trend Arrow Country PR CL Freedom Rating
Mauritius* 1 2 ▼ Free
Mexico* 2 3 ▼ Free
Micronesia* 1 1 Free
Moldova* 3 4 Partly Free
Monaco* 2 1 Free
Mongolia* 2 2 Free
Montenegro* 3 3 Partly Free
Morocco 5 4 Partly Free
Mozambique* 3 4 Partly Free
Namibia* 2 2 Free
Nauru* 1 1 Free
Nepal 5 ▲ 4 ▲ Partly Free
Netherlands* 1 1 Free
New Zealand* 1 1 Free
Nicaragua* 3 3 Partly Free
Niger* 3 3 Partly Free
Nigeria 4 4 Partly Free
North Korea 7 7 Not Free
Norway* 1 1 Free
Oman 6 5 Not Free
Pakistan 6 5 Not Free
Palau* 1 1 Free
Panama* 1 2 Free
Papua New Guinea* 3 3 Partly Free
Paraguay* 3 3 Partly Free
Peru* 2 3 Free
↓ Philippines* 3 3 Partly Free
Poland* 1 1 Free
Portugal* 1 1 Free
Qatar 6 5 Not Free
↑ Romania* 2 2 Free
↓ Russia 6 5 Not Free
Rwanda 6 5 Not Free
Saint Kitts and Nevis* 1 1 Free
Saint Lucia* 1 1 Free
Saint Vincent and the Grenadines* 2 1 Free
Samoa* 2 2 Free
San Marino* 1 1 Free







Trend Arrow Country PR CL Freedom Rating
Sao Tome and Principe* 2 2 Free
Saudi Arabia 7 6 Not Free
Senegal* 2 3 Free
Serbia* 3 2 Free
↓ Seychelles* 3 3 Partly Free
Sierra Leone* 4 3 Partly Free
Singapore 5 4 Partly Free
Slovakia* 1 1 Free
Slovenia* 1 1 Free
Solomon Islands 4 ▼ 3 Partly Free
Somalia 7 ▼ 7 Not Free
South Africa* 2 ▼ 2 Free
South Korea* 1 2 Free
Spain* 1 1 Free
Sri Lanka* 4 ▼ 4 ▼ Partly Free
Sudan 7 7 Not Free
Suriname* 2 2 Free
Swaziland 7 5 Not Free
Sweden* 1 1 Free
Switzerland* 1 1 Free
Syria 7 6 ▲ Not Free
Taiwan* 2 ▼ 1 Free
Tajikistan 6 5 Not Free
Tanzania 4 3 Partly Free
Thailand 7 ▼ 4 ▼ Not Free
Togo 6 5 Not Free
Tonga 5 3 Partly Free
Trinidad and Tobago* 2 ▲ 2 Free
Tunisia 6 5 Not Free
Turkey* 3 3 Partly Free
Turkmenistan 7 7 Not Free
Tuvalu* 1 1 Free
Uganda 5 4 Partly Free
Ukraine* 3 2 Free
United Arab Emirates 6 5 ▲ Not Free
United Kingdom* 1 1 Free
United States* 1 1 Free
Uruguay* 1 1 Free







Trend Arrow Country PR CL Freedom Rating
Uzbekistan 7 7 Not Free
Vanuatu* 2 2 Free
Venezuela* 4 4 Partly Free
Vietnam 7 5 Not Free
Yemen 5 5 Partly Free
Zambia* 3 ▲ 4 Partly Free
↓ Zimbabwe 7 6 Not Free

PR and CL stand for Political Rights and Civil Liberties, respectively; 1 represents the most free and 7 the least free rating. The ratings reflect an overall judgment based on survey results.
▲ ▼ up or down indicates a change in Political Rights or Civil Liberties since the last survey.

↑ ↓ up or down indicates a trend arrow.

*indicates a country’s status as an electoral democracy.
NOTE: The ratings reflect global events from December 1, 2005, through December 31, 2006.





Table of Related Territories: Comparative Measures of Freedom


Trend Arrow Country and Territory PR CL Freedom Rating
China
Hong Kong 5 2 Partly Free
United States
Puerto Rico 1 1 Free


Table of Disputed Territories: Comparative Measures of Freedom


Trend Arrow Country and Territory PR CL Freedom Rating
Armenia/Azerbaijan
Nagorno-Karabakh 5 5 Partly Free
China
Tibet 7 7 Not Free
Cyprus
Northern (Turkish) Cyprus 2 2 Free
Georgia
Abkhazia 5 5 Partly Free
India
Kashmir 5 5 Partly Free
Israel
Israeli-Occupied Territories 6 5 Not Free
Palestinian Authority- 4 ▲ 6 ▼ Partly Free
Administered Territories
Moldova
Transnistria 6 6 Not Free
Morocco
Western Sahara 7 6 Not Free
Pakistan
Kashmir 7 5 Not Free
Russia
Chechnya 7 7 Not Free
Serbia
Kosovo 6 5 Not Free
Somalia
Somaliland 5 4 Partly Free

there u go webby

as mentioned in the report its abt "Political Rights and Civil Liberties"
so that would mean right to democracy as well as other freedoms like expression,protest etc.. i guess.
 
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Again, I can't stress this enough. These surveys should not be taken seriously. At least there is no such thing as fake encounters, or people getting killed freely by the military, or torture in AJK. Probably a lot less rapes too. You can go and ask Kashmiris in both the countries where they prefer to live. That should be end of the story.
 
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Lol...
Read my post earlier in depth. I proved as to why these things should be not taken again.
Could you point out the post#
The world also is also made to believe that Pakistan is behind a dog being ran over by a car in india.
Lol..don't flatter yourself, you know that is a frivolous statement.
It also was made to believe that Iraq had WMD.
Who is this it? The world believed it...you must be joking.:eek: The only ones making that claim were Bush & Blair.
 
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Err.. we freed 2/5th of Kashmir in 1948.
Lol...read up, read up. A little knowledge is very harm full. Tsk, Tsk. If you recollect the Lashkars were kicked out when they were almost within 15-20 km of Srinagar, its another story as to why Nehru went to the UN when IA was moving towards Muzaffarabad-Domel and were pulled back from Kotli, and you still claim victory? Again its not your fault, it is observed that there is a marked tendancy to scrap out victories where none exist.
And DO NOT called it occupying Kashmir on a Pakistani forum. Do it on an indian forum. This kind of propaganda is not tolerated. Kashmiris in India consider their land to be occupied, who are you refuting what they say.
O.k so now its "my cricket set" and I cannot get out.

This forum is active because of Indian members who generate debates and threads continue. If you want an only Pak forum say so, and we shall leave. I will say what ever I believe in (within decorum, of course) - either you like it or lump it. But don't dictate terms, when the survival of this forum depends of us Indians, and that is the hard truth.
 
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Could you point out the post#
153

Lol..don't flatter yourself, you know that is a frivolous statement.
I was using hyperbole with sarcasm. But you get the idea.

Who is this it? The world believed it...you must be joking.:eek: The only ones making that claim were Bush & Blair.
Actually people did believe it in USA and some parts of the western world when USA was about to invade Iraq. Some still believe that Iraq had WMD for that matter.

Lol...read up, read up. A little knowledge is very harm full. Tsk, Tsk. If you recollect the Lashkars were kicked out when they were almost within 15-20 km of Srinagar, its another story as to why Nehru went to the UN when IA was moving towards Muzaffarabad-Domel and were pulled back from Kotli, and you still claim victory? Again its not your fault, it is observed that there is a marked tendancy to scrap out victories where non exist.
Look, I don't know a lot of history Indo-Pak wars. I only have limited knowledge about those. But in the end, we did get 2/5 of Kashmir.
 
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Dear Jana,

Just one small question, 60 years on and not an inch closer to occupy Kashmir.

Pakistan ko kaisa klpd hogaya.

PA has raised the bogey of Kashmir, amassed huge wealth when the citizens of Pakistan have been left impoverished and uneducated.

1965 - Classic underestimation of Indian defence. 10 Hindu soldiers = 1 Pak soldier, did not gain anything from the war. Who was ruling Pak ? Pak Army

1971 - India castrated Pak into two. Dissolved the 2 nation theory. Who was ruling Pak ? Pak Army

1984 - Pakistan lost the race to claim Siachen. Who was ruling Pak ? Pak Army.

1991 - Death by a thousand cuts, has India budged from kashmir, nahi.

1999 - Kargil. What a **** idea thinking that India will not take back the heights. Ha ha ha. I hope more generals like Musharraf are in pakistan.

2007 - Musharraf is falling at the feet of India, allowed the border to fenced, stopped militant activity, ironical for the great Komandu to actually speak of peace.

Still no Kashmir. :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

From 65 it has been KLPD after KLPD.

Sorry mate but your statement is full of a lot of crap here.........I would make a point by point rebuttal but I think it will be a waste of my time to debate with someone who comes out with some of the gems above.....
"10 Hindu soldiers = 1 Pak" is my favourite....:disagree:
 
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This forum is active because of Indian members who generate debates and threads continue. If you want an only Pak forum say so, and we shall leave. I will say what ever I believe in (within decorum, of course) - either you like it or lump it. But don't dictate terms, when the survival of this forum depends of us Indians, and that is the hard truth.
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
 
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the survival of this forum depends of us Indians, and that is the hard truth.

And you survival depends on me; I can end your life with a click of button :lol:
 
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I for one do appreciate your input sword.
However such claims should not be made.

Let's not let this degenerate into this is my ball and no-one else can play............
 
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I for one do appreciate your input sword.
However such claims should not be made.

Let's not let this degenerate into this is my ball and no-one else can play............
Unfortunately I had to be a little rude to Ahsan_R

Who are the majority active members in PFF?
Pakistanis and Indians.

Who wants to discuss the issues and the prime 'K' word?
Pakistanis and Indians.

Care to point out if anyone else (i.e non Pakistani) gives a damn and conrtibutes as much as Indians in this forum. This forum became a replica of PDF some months back, till Webby changed some moderators, that is why I come here. I come here because of members like Neo and MuradK sir, and blain, they bebate and counter debate.

But claiming that this is my "cricket field" and so I don't get out, So my question is then - would he like to play alone?
 
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