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Why can't India and Pakistan have friendly relations?

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I guess that makes me a troll against India and China as well? I asked a question to try and understand the hatred between Indians and Pakistanis and you call me a troll? Again why are posters on here so defensive?
This forum is just filled with hate... there are a few good posters on here but a lot of them are idiotic hypocrites who use mental gymnastics to get out of arguments. There are many intelligent Pakistanis out there but sadly some people on this forum ruin their name.
 
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I have been watching these forums and Indian and Pakistani posters always seem to be at war on here. If Pakistan and India get together there will be economic stability for Pakistan as well as internal.

Pakistan cannot sustain this hate against India, Pakistan need to change their stance but the change needs a cultural change. I am nether Pakistani or Indian, so I have no horses in this race.

You guys need to work it out by yourselves.
Pakistan has no problems with India, save for Kashmir. If India is willing to have a serious discussion on Kashmir, and is willing to accept a solution, instead of just talking for talking's sake, Pakistan and India would get along swimmingly well.

This idea that Pakistan hates India for no reason, or even worse, an ideological reason, is a myth.
 
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Bangladesh is Muslim nation enjoined by majority of citizens that hate India to the core despite the friendly foreign policy towards India. Bangladesh hates India more than Pakistan despite 1971. Who are you fooling here? :D
Is Bangladesh a muslim nation or a secular nation??
Actually 2-nation theory is nothing but a cover/platform for Hindu/India hating muslims of sub continent.
But a theory based on hatred is bound to be flawed.

Pakistan has no problems with India, save for Kashmir. If India is willing to have a serious discussion on Kashmir, and is willing to accept a solution, instead of just talking for talking's sake, Pakistan and India would get along swimmingly well.

This idea that Pakistan hates India for no reason, or even worse, an ideological reason, is a myth.
We don't buy that. You are tagging on to Kashmir just for your own raison d'etre.
You let go of East Pakistan that you were born with but you will eye Kashmir that was never your part. Remember that you were born with east Pakistan but without Kashmir. So this logic is flawed.
 
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It's very funny I get called a troll by Indians, Pakistanis and Chinese on these forums just for being honest and voicing my opinions. I have been to India and China and I have criticized both countries, I think some of you need to read my past post before labeling me a troll which to me is funny.

I guess when you voice your opinion on forums like this everyone becomes insecure and defensive when you criticize them. But when you praise them they tend to love you, but unfortunately for me I hate covering things up and would rather discuss things in the open.
 
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When new nations are formed they need a uniting factor for sake of their survival ..In India ,Pakistan case it was enemity between them become major uniting factor ..Both of these two countries added fuel to enemity for their own survival ..When both of these countries feel mature and primary goal becomes development then naturally cooperation will be on cards ..It may require another two three decades or more before we can see these countries start cooperation for their survival on development front ..
 
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Is Bangladesh a muslim nation or a secular nation??
Actually 2-nation theory is nothing but a cover/platform for Hindu/India hating muslims of sub continent.
But a theory based on hatred is bound to be flawed.


We don't buy that. You are tagging on to Kashmir just for your own raison d'etre.
You let go of East Pakistan that you were born with but you will eye Kashmir that was never your part. Remember that you were born with east Pakistan but without Kashmir. So this logic is flawed.
East Pakistan was doomed to separate, and I have always been of the opinion that it should have been a separate nation from the beginning.

Kashmir is a completely different issue, with its own unique problems, and cannot be compared to East Pakistan, so it is your own logic that is flawed, not mine.

You can believe whatever you want, Pakistanis don't care. Pakistan's issue with India is Kashmir, nothing more and nothing less.

Also, I identify as a Canadian, so I'd kindly ask you not to assume my loyalties.

It's very funny I get called a troll by Indians, Pakistanis and Chinese on these forums just for being honest and voicing my opinions. I have been to India and China and I have criticized both countries, I think some of you need to read my past post before labeling me a troll which to me is funny.

I guess when you voice your opinion on forums like this everyone becomes insecure and defensive when you criticize them. But when you praise them they tend to love you, but unfortunately for me I hate covering things up and would rather discuss things in the open.
The only conclusion I can think of is that you're highly misinformed. This thread is an example of that.
 
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Pakistan has no problems with India, save for Kashmir. If India is willing to have a serious discussion on Kashmir, and is willing to accept a solution, instead of just talking for talking's sake, Pakistan and India would get along swimmingly well.

This idea that Pakistan hates India for no reason, or even worse, an ideological reason, is a myth.

I am surprised by you innocent comments. May be in Pakistan that could be the thinking....let us solve Kashmir and live happily for ever, after all Muslims got what they wanted in 1947. But you have to recognize that it was the Hindus that were the looser in the partition. No wonder Jinnah is taught across Indian schools as the villain that broke India. There are many Indians even now that never accepted Pakistan as a independent state. The ideological difference is too much to bridge the gap. The brunt of partition is still being felt by Indian Muslims. Both India and Pakistan are destined to remain hostile for long long time or until the time humans stop thinking of them as Muslims and us as Hindus.
 
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East Pakistan was doomed to separate, and I have always been of the opinion that it should have been a separate nation from the beginning.

Kashmir is a completely different issue, with its own unique problems, and cannot be compared to East Pakistan, so it is your own logic that is flawed, not mine.

You can believe whatever you want, Pakistanis don't care. Pakistan's issue with India is Kashmir, nothing more and nothing less.

Also, I identify as a Canadian, so I'd kindly ask you not to assume my loyalties.


The only conclusion I can think of is that you're highly misinformed. This thread is an example of that.
Its only a post thought that Bangladesh was meant to be a separate state. The visionaries of 2-nation theory were unable to foresee that happening in less than 25 years of making of Pakistan.

Pakistan came into existence based on a certain ideology. On one hand a part of it is failing that ideology and disintegrating and on the other hand Pakistan is insisting on acquiring Kashmir on the basis of the very same failed ideology.

Its difficult to make a Pakistani understand this but to a Canadian it should not be a problem.
 
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East Pakistan was doomed to separate, and I have always been of the opinion that it should have been a separate nation from the beginning.

Kashmir is a completely different issue, with its own unique problems, and cannot be compared to East Pakistan, so it is your own logic that is flawed, not mine.

You can believe whatever you want, Pakistanis don't care. Pakistan's issue with India is Kashmir, nothing more and nothing less.

Also, I identify as a Canadian, so I'd kindly ask you not to assume my loyalties.


The only conclusion I can think of is that you're highly misinformed. This thread is an example of that.

If I am misinformed then logically explain things to me, that is why I posted the question, but I get called a troll for asking a question.
 
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I have been watching these forums and Indian and Pakistani posters always seem to be at war on here. If Pakistan and India get together there will be economic stability for Pakistan as well as internal.

Pakistan cannot sustain this hate against India, Pakistan need to change their stance but the change needs a cultural change. I am nether Pakistani or Indian, so I have no horses in this race.


You guys need to work it out by yourselves.
Dear Friend, as an outsider this is exactly how you are supposed to feel. India is a larger country with a growing economy so yes being friend with India will be beneficial for Pakistan according to an outsider's prospective.

But all is not how it seems. Having friendly relations with India has its benefits but costs as well. And it is not just Pakistan, India is not really thrilled about having friendly relations with us either.

As I see it there are three ways to achieve peace in South Asia.

1. India somehow manages to break Pakistan into 3 or 4 smaller countries who are ready to toe Indian line in strategic matters, basically 3 or 4 new Bangladeshs on India's western borders. But India has to manage that without facing the full brunt of Pakistani nuclear weapons, otherwise there will be no south Asia to have peace in. So this option is not viable.

2. Pakistan accepts that India as an overlord, the dominant force in the region that we can't compete with and accept their hegemony, forfeit Kashmir, give access to India to Afghanistan. The problem with this approach is that it will mean death of Pakistan ideology. The thing is the only reason we got a separate state from Hindu majority India was that we were not ready to live under Hindu hegemony once the British left. If we still accept their hegemony then what is the point of existence of Pakistan. We should wrap it up and join India.

3. Pakistan becoming a major economic power. Currently Pakistani economy is about 8-9 times smaller than that of India, naturally our defense budget is 5-6 smaller as well. On one hand this makes India believe that they can and should put us in our place and make us accept them as Big Brother in the region. On the other this disparity makes India an existential threat to Pakistan, and hence you see us sometimes indulging in Asymmetric warfare or building tactical nuclear stockpile to even the odds.

If Pakistani GDP grows at 15% and in a couple of decades and this disparity is reduced to 1/4 instead of current 1/8, then i) India will accept Pakistan as a major player, a rival instead of an enemy, similar to a China-India relationship. ii) With a larger defense budget Pakistan will be able to equip its conventional armed forces to a point where India no longer seems as an existential threat. Hence the reliance on nuclear weapons or asymmetric warfare will be reduced and we will have peace in the region.

Then both countries will see the benefits a friendship can bring to their countries and will open up. But until then there will always be tension and hatred in our part of the world.
 
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Its only a post thought that Bangladesh was meant to be a separate state. The visionaries of 2-nation theory were unable to foresee that happening in less than 25 years of making of Pakistan.

Pakistan came into existence based on a certain ideology. On one hand a part of it is failing that ideology and disintegrating and on the other hand Pakistan is insisting on acquiring Kashmir on the basis of the very same failed ideology.

Its difficult to make a Pakistani understand this but to a Canadian it should not be a problem.
You know the Muslims wanted several Muslim states from British India. It is not after thought. It was just not possible as the British would not accept and the most popular concept was of Pakistan. It was Bengali Muslims who pressured to have one Muslim state as that was the only way they could get their independence. You know that even the rohingaa Muslims asked Quaid e Azaam to accept them into the Pakistan movement.
 
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Is Bangladesh a muslim nation or a secular nation??
Actually 2-nation theory is nothing but a cover/platform for Hindu/India hating muslims of sub continent.
But a theory based on hatred is bound to be flawed.
A cover/platform to hate Hindu/India hence elected Modi with the background of genocide and communal mindset against Hindus?

No Pakistani hate India, not even I nor did Jinnah but Indians hate Pakistan to the core precisely for the one and one reason only; Islam.

Precisely why Bangladesh didnt trust India enough to be part of India despite Indians help to get independence as Muslim nation. No matter how secular they may be but the fact that they are Muslims that still troubles India to this day.

Pakistan produced leaders like Jinnah, Musharraf and Nawaz who maintained pro-India which for Jinnah before 1940 which then he met the reality [communal uprising] that forced him to start establishing for Pakistan for Muslims.

Whereas for India, from Nehru to Genocial Modi with the communal mindset, can you blame Pakistan for being cautious and grateful for Pakistan as their own Muslim nation after Indian Muslims are being slaughtered everyday in the name of beef laws which most of the cases were allegation without hard evidence but that didnt matter to majority anti-Muslim mobs.

The fact that Modi is rewarded for leadership over India instead of being sentenced to death for genocide against Indian Muslims in Gujarat does indicate clear intention towards Indian Muslims never mind Pakistan.

It is not flawed since Pakistan is reality and for the good reasons as mentioned above.
 
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I have been watching these forums and Indian and Pakistani posters always seem to be at war on here. If Pakistan and India get together there will be economic stability for Pakistan as well as internal.

Pakistan cannot sustain this hate against India, Pakistan need to change their stance but the change needs a cultural change. I am nether Pakistani or Indian, so I have no horses in this race.

You guys need to work it out by yourselves.

Change will come soon .
I've been on this forum and have wastedr myself too in these indo pak wars, but I see no use of it .. I've been wasting my time nd brain on such hate .
I refused to go further nd developed interest in useful topics.. It has served me a lot . Much beneficial than India pak related ones.

This hate is of no use, only if we realise this .
 
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Pakistan has no problems with India, save for Kashmir. If India is willing to have a serious discussion on Kashmir, and is willing to accept a solution, instead of just talking for talking's sake, Pakistan and India would get along swimmingly well.

This idea that Pakistan hates India for no reason, or even worse, an ideological reason, is a myth.

For a moment let’s agree, Kashmir solution is the panacea of all problems. What about the vengeance PA carries after loosing Bangladesh? You think they will go silent about the call to avenge India with a thousand cuts right after a peaceful settlement of Kashmir issue?
 
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For a moment let’s agree, Kashmir solution is the panacea of all problems. What about the vengeance PA carries after loosing Bangladesh? You think they will go silent about the call to avenge India with a thousand cuts right after a peaceful settlement of Kashmir issue?

Pakistanis don't believe in vengeance.

Kashmir is our core issue and everything else is chance or eventuality.

Bangladesh is a forgotten chapter as far as Pakistanis are concerned. A chapter closed in 1976.
 
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