Why are we so backward?

[Pakistani_Athiest]

I think, sometimes, the Atheists and skeptics (like me and you) who are more obsessed with religion than what we accuse others of. I have realized that this is a negative way of going about in debate. If you accuse others of wearing their beliefs on their sleeves, you are wearing you lack of belief in a similar way.

I think there are several other overbearing personal traits which people from sub-continent are lacking(As India / Bangladesh / Sri Lanka have been lagging as well, when compared to rest of the world). It might be a bitter pill to swallow for many, we overemphasize on what we perceive is our culture and values, which include some good and some not so healthy traditions. We have left behind what forms the backbone of our economy, in the lure of management and IT / CS degrees. How many high aptitude individuals opt for a course in agriculture for example??

One simple area would be womens employment. I know for sure it would come out to be lowest in the world, which simply translates to almost 40% of our citizens baing non-productive and just managing homes. Another example would be. if a study is conducted on the age when you get your first salary. We have this philsophy - First we need to study and then work, whereas if we start working early it is much easier to identify the interest areas.

In studies we have what is termed as "Herd Mentality". MBA is the in thing now, BE in IT and CS was earlier. Student does not ever know what will he be facing in the real world and real work place.

There are many such reasons and as worded very articulately by MK, we are constantly living in shadow of our parents. Protected unnecessarily, but somehow that is what we perceive our culture to be about.

So you are telling me that this forum is filled with religious threads because 'skeptics' and 'atheists' want to discuss religion?

 

[F86 Saber]

We claim we are Muslims, we grow beards, we offer prayers, we fast, we go on Haj, but when it comes to being fair in trade, loyal to your country, being honest, being generous, the same long beard Mullahs do the exact opposite of whats written in Islam. Are those Mullahs Muslims who give knowledge of Islam in Mudrassas but molest young boys and girls who come to them?

Why does Islam of Mullahs start from beard and Shalwar Kameez and ends on Women?? Why cant we first instill the basic humanitarian traits preached by Islam in ourselves like honesty, integrity, patience, peacefulness, impartiality, fair trade, justice and than aim for enforcing Beard, Hijab and Jihad........If Islam is only about these three things than I rather be an Atheist.

 

[Pakistani_Athiest]

Why does Islam of Mullahs start from beard and Shalwar Kameez and ends on Women?? Why cant we first instill the basic humanitarian traits preached by Islam in ourselves like honesty, integrity, patience, peacefulness, impartiality, fair trade, justice and than aim for enforcing Beard, Hijab and Jihad........If Islam is only about these three things than I rather be an Atheist.

Bravo brother! Bravo! We need more compatriots like you!

 

[Martian2]

Why compare with India? Compare with Japan or China or Israel.

It is reasonable to compare countries in the same region (e.g. the subcontinent). In other words, am I falling behind my neighbor?

Also, the comparison to Japan, China, or Israel would not be favorable. I was trying to cheer you guys up.

 

[Gin ka Pakistan]

1. Feudal system
2. Class system of schools
3. Afghan war , trust me before that war no Mullah was that strong or militant.

 

[Skeptic]

So you are telling me that this forum is filled with religious threads because 'skeptics' and 'atheists' want to discuss religion?

Nope, but we want it to be the sole cause for everything. If you think rationally. Not everything because of religion, and if you think by bringing out a head on debate stating Religion / Obsession with religion is cause of all wrongs in the country, I doubt you will have to many followers.

If you are a rationalist, you must make out logical point and take it from their - rather than taking the bull by the horn. If you accuse obsession with religion, people are least likely to even hear you out, if you make a rational point, and let them relate to it as per their beliefs, it'll be a different ballgame.

If you say obsession with religion is the cause of lack of employment of women, it is a negative statement and would fetch you strong counter arguments as you are hurting at the soft spot directly. Religious text, I have experienced is as open to drawing several inferences. The conclusion people will draw from it will depend on the direction of discourse. They will find relevant quotes to support employment of women at the same time they will find quote which will restrict it. After all, Talibans and the army fighting them - both is sworn to the same book, but their interpretations are vastly different.

We are not out here to convert them into non-believers. If we try doing that, we are trying to propogate our cult which is as good as being in one religion and preaching it.

No offence meant to you, and further we can discuss it in PM. No more off topic posts from me here.

 

[Ahmad]

Why compare with India? Compare with Japan or China or Israel.

this problem is not only for paksitan but all the so called 3rd world countries. comparing pakistan with india is good because they are rivals. and why cant you compare pakistan with countries lower than pakistan?

 

[Martian2]

this problem is not only for paksitan but all the so called 3rd world countries. comparing pakistan with india is good because they are rivals. and why cant you compare pakistan with countries lower than pakistan?

I think you bring up a good point. Among non-industrialized countries, Pakistan is a normal country (e.g. average standard of living). The jump from a third-world country to a newly-industrialized country is difficult. It takes hard work and time. However, it will eventually happen.

The proliferation of technology is an unstoppable trend. Europe was the first to industrialize. Next in line was America. After that was Japan and East Asia. Your turn will come.

 

[mehru]

Why is Pakistan lagging behind THIS bad, despite having many hardworking and smart citizens?

I say 'obsession with religion'.

Check out the threads. Every thread from Stephen Hawking's comment of extra-terrestrial to cricket to even movies translates to a discussion on religion.

Well my simple answer will be that we lack honesty in everything. We are hardworking for sure but we lack commitment and also we waste a lot of time.
Obsession with religion? I don't know how much this notion is true? However you can say that when it comes to Science, Pakistanis like to associate or view Science through religion and that's why you don't see any major Scientific contribution from our country. I will give you my example. I have a biological background and i believe that evolution has occurred but my fellow M.Phil students don't believe in evolution and i have always bitterly debated this issue with them. I have even seen my teachers doubting it. No offence but you can see that no new innovation will come because of our preconceived notions which has come from religion offcourse. So no progress.

 

[Ahmad]

I think the problem of 3rd world countries is not a single problem, there are combination of number of issues that make us 3rd world country. too much obsesion with religion is one of them.

 

[Lilo]

It is reasonable to compare countries in the same region (e.g. the subcontinent). In other words, am I falling behind my neighbor?

Also, the comparison to Japan, China, or Israel would not be favorable. I was trying to cheer you guys up.

Ok you can analyze for your hearts content at the below link and tell us where u see pak compared to rest of subcontinent... say by 2020.

IMF Economic Indicators of South Asia.

 

[xenia]

theoretically we are obsessed with religion but i dont observe this much is in practice..i mean does ur religion (let it b islam, christianity, etc) stops u from working, thinking rationally, playing ur part in development, etc...
beliefs are one set of thing n acting another..when we use the word beliefs it encompasses everything not just religion--our choice of how we want to live..
we wre backward because our economy is not working well..japanese are really introvert people but we dont call them backward..
i personally think we have "i m right" mentality...we are not ready to change things at grass root level, instead we want every one to praise us..whats wrong if pakistan is compared with india,ghana,US or maldives..nothing will change but we ll learn something from each of these..our grey areas..
that reminds me of max webers theory that things have meanings which we attach to them..why dont we attach positive meaning to things we come across rather than being obsessive..
i think the earlier we recognize our shortcomings the better it is!!

 

[xenia]

Well my simple answer will be that we lack honesty in everything. We are hardworking for sure but we lack commitment and also we waste a lot of time.
Obsession with religion? I don't know how much this notion is true? However you can say that when it comes to Science, Pakistanis like to associate or view Science through religion and that's why you don't see any major Scientific contribution from our country. I will give you my example. I have a biological background and i believe that evolution has occurred but my fellow M.Phil students don't believe in evolution and i have always bitterly debated this issue with them. I have even seen my teachers doubting it. No offence but you can see that no new innovation will come because of our preconceived notions which has come from religion offcourse. So no progress.

that again depend on how u look at things..
there are people who say we were born of evolution (Quran says everything was created from a drop of water) but many may not believe in darwinism..but religion apart, i dont beleve in this
again some people provide religious roots for big bang (heaven and earth were once same) n others may deny it again on religious grounds..ita a matter of how u percieve things..
i dont understand how it obstructs research n progress..in fact it should promote research spirit..

 

[Martian2]

Ok you can analyze for your hearts content at the below link and tell us where u see pak compared to rest of subcontinent... say by 2020.

IMF Economic Indicators of South Asia.

The IMF data only extends to 2015.

For South Asia, in 2015, Pakistan ($1,363.91) will be in good shape and will still have the third highest per-capita income after Sri Lanka ($2,537.82) and India ($1,681.91).

With the exception of India, all South Asian economies will grow between 4.5-6.5%. India's GDP will grow a little faster at roughly 8%.

Economically, the relative ranks of South Asian countries will not change. However, I suspect that you already knew this. All South Asian countries are under-developed countries and in the same boat.

I'm going to go out on a limb and attempt to answer the more interesting question that is implicit in the question, "Why are we so backward?" Another way of asking the same question is the one that the Indians have been trying to answer: How do we catch China?

The short answer is that you can't. In my opinion, China took a shortcut to industrialization through harnessing Taiwan's technology, hundreds of billions of dollars of direct investment, management expertise, customer base, tens of thousands of patents, know-how, research and development (i.e. see Hsinchu Science Park), etc.

The cumulative number of patents awarded by the U.S. Patent Office to Taiwan is 94,579; China is 9,492; Hong Kong is 9,862; India is 4,802; Russian Federation is 2,660; and Pakistan is 47.

Greater China is utilizing a combined base of 113,933 patents to manufacture high-value-added goods. India's base is 4,802. Russian Federation's base is 2,660. Pakistan's base is 47. It will take an eternity for India, Russia, or Pakistan to match Greater China's patents.

The solution is simple. If you can't innovate fast enough to generate your own patents, you must "borrow" the patents of another country. China has Taiwan. Pakistan will have to find its own source of patents.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/china-defence/55558-greater-china-surpasses-german-patents.html

"China continues to climb the ranks of countries that receive the most patents in the United States.

Patents By Country, State, and Year - All Patent Types (December 2009)

Patents granted by the United States for the year 2008.

1. U.S. 92,000 patents
2. Japan 36,679
3. Germany 10,086
4. South Korea 8,731
5. Taiwan 7,779
6. Canada 4,125
7. U.K. 3,843
8. France 3,813
9. Italy 1,916
10. China 1,874
...
Hong Kong 717 (Patent office counts Hong Kong as a separate entity)
India 672
Singapore 450
Russian Federation 181

There are 70,000 Taiwanese companies on the Chinese Mainland. It is my guess that many Chinese exports incorporate not only Chinese patents, but also Taiwanese patents. The Taiwanese were a perennial #4 in U.S. patents received until they were passed by South Korea in 2008.

While the current number of Chinese patents appears to be insufficient to support a large high-tech export base, the combination of Greater China (i.e. Chinese, Taiwanese, and Hong Kong) patents should suffice.

Greater China's 10,370 patents (i.e. China's 1,874 + Taiwan's 7,779 + Hong Kong's 717) are greater than the number of German patents at 10,086.

Taiwan (10/09)
"Significant migration to Taiwan from the Chinese mainland began as early as A.D. 500. ..... There are a number of small political parties, including the Taiwan .... in China, and more than 70000 Taiwan companies have operations there. .... In keeping with our one China policy, the U.S. does not support Taiwan ...""

 

[Comet]

We are backwards because of our Hypocrisy