Why are we so adamant in our support for Palestine when they themselves support India against us?

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

You were telling me a future outcome, not reality.

In this reply, you have raised a different point, the present situation in Pakistan. Yes, the public support is not there for recognition of Israel, but that is the point of this thread, we are presenting an argument that not recognizing Israel is illogical and hoping that the people of Pakistan will understand.

Please try to restrict to relevant points, makes it easier to reach a conclusion, and reduces the need for lengthy repetitive replies, thank you.

I raised many points, not just that the public will hang anyone even suggesting this. I also mentioned Quaid's warning to Pakistan and his insistence of support for Palestinians and the Arabs against Israeli aggression. Even his point that Pakistan will never accept Israel. All that and more have been covered by others.

Many of the media personalities pushing for this like Hamid Mir are paid agents of foreign lobbies. Imran Khan already rejected their propaganda, and it seems that whenever something new happens, some Pakistanis here jump up and down to accept Israel.

This is the same Israel which is an avowed enemy of Pakistan, and will do whatever it takes to harm Pakistan and Pakistani interests. At whose orders do you think UAE keeps giving Modi accolades and keeps trying to block Pakistani actions at OIC, UN, and FATF?

You want to give Mossad a legal framework and legal cover to spy on Pakistan and build proxies on our home soil?

Why not bring back Blackwater/Xe/Academi to Pakistan and Afghanistan?

Thank you for mentioning this. The Black September massacre. Around 5000-10000 Palestinians killed. Higher estimates go to 25000. Mard e momin Zia ul Haq's troops were party to it. He didn't remember his ummah chummah then.

PLO was working with Israel to overthrow the Jordanian monarchy. They flooded Jordan.. Pakistan did the right thing, we prevented Jordan from slipping into the kind of civil war which is going on in Syria and Libya today.

We prevented Israel from stealing more Arab land.

I doubt those casualty figures, they seem embellished.

 

[Yankee-stani]

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/why-do-people-hate-jews-rant.668434/

 

[Cliftonite]

PLO was working with Israel to overthrow the Jordanian monarchy. They flooded Jordan.. Pakistan did the right thing, we prevented Jordan from slipping into the kind of civil war which is going on in Syria and Libya today.

We prevented Israel from stealing more Arab land.

I doubt those casualty figures, they seem embellished.

Lol.

You've totally switched up things. King Hussein and King Abdullah were pro Israel. They wanted to settle the dispute with Israel and finalize the West Bank border. PLO was against any kind of peacewith Israel. Read about the assassination of King Abdullah the First and Wasfi Tal, at the hands of a Palestinian. For trying to make peace with Israel. If you think I'm quoting Zionist propaganda, it's all there in the records you can read for yourself.

 

[KaiserX]

Even mullahs in Saudi/Egypt are getting buddy buddy with Zionist Israel but it seems some educated members on this forum are more wise.

We need to look after our own interest first. Stop fantasising about ummah chumah.

 

[peagle]

I raised many points, not just that the public will hang anyone even suggesting this. I also mentioned Quaid's warning to Pakistan and his insistence of support for Palestinians and the Arabs against Israeli aggression. Even his point that Pakistan will never accept Israel. All that and more have been covered by others.

Many of the media personalities pushing for this like Hamid Mir are paid agents of foreign lobbies. Imran Khan already rejected their propaganda, and it seems that whenever something new happens, some Pakistanis here jump up and down to accept Israel.

This is the same Israel which is an avowed enemy of Pakistan, and will do whatever it takes to harm Pakistan and Pakistani interests. At whose orders do you think UAE keeps giving Modi accolades and keeps trying to block Pakistani actions at OIC, UN, and FATF?

You want to give Mossad a legal framework and legal cover to spy on Pakistan and build proxies on our home soil?

Why not bring back Blackwater/Xe/Academi to Pakistan and Afghanistan?



PLO was working with Israel to overthrow the Jordanian monarchy. They flooded Jordan.. Pakistan did the right thing, we prevented Jordan from slipping into the kind of civil war which is going on in Syria and Libya today.

We prevented Israel from stealing more Arab land.

I doubt those casualty figures, they seem embellished.

I love my Jinnah so I will answer regarding his statements. What he said is not written in stone. It was a correct position for the time, but a lot has happened since. He was a pragmatic and intelligent person, you have to have correct policies for the time you live in, for his time those policies were relevant, we have to adapt our policies for the time we live in now.

Regarding the rest of your reply, I really don't know how to talk with you, you prefer to live in fantasies, conspiracy theories, and points that have no relevance to facts.

I do not wish to communicate with you any further on this topic, stay safe, and stay happy. Take care.

 

[CriticalThinker02]

A Pakistani visits Palestine.

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

Lol.

You've totally switched up things. King Hussein and King Abdullah were pro Israel. They wanted to settle the dispute with Israel and finalize the West Bank border. PLO was against any kind of peacewith Israel. Read about the assassination of King Abdullah the First and Wasfi Tal, at the hands of a Palestinian. For trying to make peace with Israel. If you think I'm quoting Zionist propaganda, it's all there in the records you can read for yourself.

Gen Zia was right to send troops to protect Jordan from Israeli and PLO designs. Pakistan played a major part in the security of Jordan, that is why Jordanians have a positive view of Pakistanis.

It is a mutually beneficial relationship.

I love my Jinnah so I will answer regarding his statements. What he said is not written in stone. It was a correct position for the time, but a lot has happened since. He was a pragmatic and intelligent person, you have to have correct policies for the time you live in, for his time those policies were relevant, we have to adapt our policies for the time we live in now.

Quaid e Azam was not alone, many other of our leaders aired their denunciations of Israel. I can begin quoting them, but there is no point as you have made up your mind.

Regarding the rest of your reply, I really don't know how to talk with you, you prefer to live in fantasies, conspiracy theories, and points that have no relevance to facts.

As an Arabic speaking person and someone who is very well acquainted with the history/politics/nuances of Arab world, I am telling you about the reality of the Israeli state.

You guys act like it is a small thing to ignore Israeli crimes, it is not. What little influence we have in the Islamic and Arab world will be totally eradicated.

Yet some idealistic Pakistanis are hoping somehow Israel will back off from the warpath against us, or that we may gain some imagined leverage over them.

No one has provided any concrete benefit to initiating ties with Israel, as of yet.

Furthermore, it is totally against our religion and the amanat of our ancestors. They wouldn't even look at us if we suggested such a thing.

May Allah swt forgive this thought which has entered our mind.

I do not wish to communicate with you any further on this topic, stay safe, and stay happy. Take care.

Well Imran Khan has shot it down. you will have to wait for the next government.

 

[Mamluk]

Is there a non-Indian source for this news?

 

[Falcon29]

People here should know the situation in Palestine today. There are two dominant political parties there. The Palestinian Authority and Hamas. The Palestinian Authority was based in the West Bank and Gaza until 2006 elections in Palestine during which Hamas won majority of seats in parliament. Issues developed between the two parties and a government could not get functioning, eventually leading to armed clashes between the two in Gaza that led to Hamas military wing taking over Gaza. Ever since Hamas has been in control of Gaza and PA in West Bank.

Hamas's relations with Arab nations, Western nations and even Muslim nations was not strong. Most nations did not want to deal with them because they don't agree with their military mindset towards the conflict with Israel. And they feared sanctions from the US. Iran was only one supporting them with funds in the beginning. Rest of nations did not support them and instead saw the Palestinian Authority as legimate government of Palestine and thus shunned Hamas and only dealt with the PA.

Hamas has been in three major wars with Israel since and recently have developed ties with Qatar and Turkey. Their three major allies are Iran, Qatar and Turkey. They are not like the PA which has ties with lots of states since PA is not a designated terrorist organization in some nations while Hamas is.

India I'm sure considers Hamas a terrorist group as well and doesn't deal with them. Hamas doesn't seem to have any contact with India either. PA on other hand has contact with lots of nations.

Hamas did congrulate Pakistani PM to my surprise but I don't know extent of relations between Hamas and Pakistani government.
......
......

Hamas congratulates new Pakistani PM on his position

Head of Hamas Political Bureau, Ismail Haniyeh, congratulated the Pakistani Prime Minister Imran Khan after he was sworn in as PM of the country.

In a message to the new Pakistani leader, Haniyeh expressed his belief in the PM's capability to lead Pakistan to prosperity and development in all fields.

"We hope that the new PM will support the Palestinian, their just cause and their struggle against the Israeli Occupation until their rights are restored," he added.

Haniyeh expressed his hope for improving the Palestine-Pakistan relations in a way that best serves the two countries.

The chief of Hamas Political Bureau thanked Pakistan for its stances in support of the Palestinian people and their cause.
...
....
https://hamas.ps/en/post/1493/hamas-congratulates-new-pakistani-pm-on-his-position

 

[Falcon29]

Arab leaders who have sold out their people, they are not our teachers.

Prophet Muhammad saws is our teacher. His message is forever, we must stand with oppressed in any circumstance, it doesn't matter.



The shame is theirs and not ours. We have always stayed loyal to the cause of Islam and Muslims. This is a period of fitnah, and things will be set right again, have faith.

If we make knee-jerk reactions, then we will be left without allies or friends. This is what India wants. We should figure out the bone India gave to the Palestinians and work out their game.

In our hearts, Al Aqsa is free. We will never tolerate foreign boots on our Holy Land. We will remember the blood of shuhada and the tears of mothers who lost their children.

Shame on all Israel supporters.



Ameen brother. Voice of reason here.

@Falcon29 Thoughts on the thread, brother?

Thanks for tagging me brother, I believe in the end everyone has the freedom to come to his own conclusions or give his opinions as he/she wishes. If one believes Muslim nations have their share of oppression and wrong doings then this is sound and I wholeheartedly agree we need to be better people as a whole and end violence/oppression in our states. This does not mean we need to support Israel though.

We are in a unique situation as Muslims, we are not doing well spiritual , socially or politically. So this frustrates lots of Muslims who feel we aren't sincere and they develop mentality that the Muslim world is a mess and every country or people's should just look after themselves and it's not worth it to limit their opportunities and potential because of other group of Muslims. And you can't blame them to be honest, they don't know how to approach matters and don't have faith in our leaders, the ones that don't focus on their nation.

So we can say we have problems in the Muslim world and Muslims are their own, have no one but their Lord to look up to. And we shouldn't expect change if we don't change ourselves. In the meantime Muslims are principled people that need to follow principles of Islam to their best ability.

I as a Palestinian will be honest I don't really care about Palestinian nationalism I don't have attachment to it. Because I feel like nationalism tries to satisfy our curiosities about our identity/purpose. And I don't feel it is sufficient for that as only God can explain our purpose and make us understand it. So I can just say whatever I'm American , I'm born here and Palestine is a lost cause and it would be a stressful task to try to turn things in our favor. But I believe our reactions to these situations/conflicts around the world test our character and reveal more about our personality. And I know God will test us by putting us in situations to see how we will react and he gave us an internal moral compass which we should honor.

Opposing oppression everywhere , including in Muslim nations and trying to improve ourselves to become more just to ourselves is the right thing to do. If I can't be this way then it affects me personally because I change as a person and begin to question other things in life. I will ask myself, if I don't believe in justice and upholding a moral stance for a conflict somewhere in the world, then I will question should I even lead a moral lifestyle or how should I lead my life. If I'm not abiding by an aqeedah then my aqeedah will not apply to anything. Whether that be supporting those that are oppressed or going to party with girls at college. I think aqeedah is a wide thing that applies to all aspects of life and we can't seperate one aspect from the rest of them.

That's only reason I maintain such a position on Palestine. Interests of Palestinian people/state is not what should drive my position on Palestine. Palestinian state could be established one day and we could become like a second Lebanon but I'm not gonna going to fit in with them at that point , so what's the point ?

 

[Cliftonite]

People here should know the situation in Palestine today. There are two dominant political parties there. The Palestinian Authority and Hamas. The Palestinian Authority was based in the West Bank and Gaza until 2006 elections in Palestine during which Hamas won majority of seats in parliament. Issues developed between the two parties and a government could not get functioning, eventually leading to armed clashes between the two in Gaza that led to Hamas military wing taking over Gaza. Ever since Hamas has been in control of Gaza and PA in West Bank.

Hamas's relations with Arab nations, Western nations and even Muslim nations was not strong. Most nations did not want to deal with them because they don't agree with their military mindset towards the conflict with Israel. And they feared sanctions from the US. Iran was only one supporting them with funds in the beginning. Rest of nations did not support them and instead saw the Palestinian Authority as legimate government of Palestine and thus shunned Hamas and only dealt with the PA.

Hamas has been in three major wars with Israel since and recently have developed ties with Qatar and Turkey. Their three major allies are Iran, Qatar and Turkey. They are not like the PA which has ties with lots of states since PA is not a designated terrorist organization in some nations while Hamas is.

India I'm sure considers Hamas a terrorist group as well and doesn't deal with them. Hamas doesn't seem to have any contact with India either. PA on other hand has contact with lots of nations.

Hamas did congrulate Pakistani PM to my surprise but I don't know extent of relations between Hamas and Pakistani government.
......
......

Hamas congratulates new Pakistani PM on his position

Head of Hamas Political Bureau, Ismail Haniyeh, congratulated the Pakistani Prime Minister Imran Khan after he was sworn in as PM of the country.

In a message to the new Pakistani leader, Haniyeh expressed his belief in the PM's capability to lead Pakistan to prosperity and development in all fields.

"We hope that the new PM will support the Palestinian, their just cause and their struggle against the Israeli Occupation until their rights are restored," he added.

Haniyeh expressed his hope for improving the Palestine-Pakistan relations in a way that best serves the two countries.

The chief of Hamas Political Bureau thanked Pakistan for its stances in support of the Palestinian people and their cause.
...
....
https://hamas.ps/en/post/1493/hamas-congratulates-new-pakistani-pm-on-his-position

Thanks for tagging me brother, I believe in the end everyone has the freedom to come to his own conclusions or give his opinions as he/she wishes. If one believes Muslim nations have their share of oppression and wrong doings then this is sound and I wholeheartedly agree we need to be better people as a whole and end violence/oppression in our states. This does not mean we need to support Israel though.

We are in a unique situation as Muslims, we are not doing well spiritual , socially or politically. So this frustrates lots of Muslims who feel we aren't sincere and they develop mentality that the Muslim world is a mess and every country or people's should just look after themselves and it's not worth it to limit their opportunities and potential because of other group of Muslims. And you can't blame them to be honest, they don't know how to approach matters and don't have faith in our leaders, the ones that don't focus on their nation.

So we can say we have problems in the Muslim world and Muslims are their own, have no one but their Lord to look up to. And we shouldn't expect change if we don't change ourselves. In the meantime Muslims are principled people that need to follow principles of Islam to their best ability.

I as a Palestinian will be honest I don't really care about Palestinian nationalism I don't have attachment to it. Because I feel like nationalism tries to satisfy our curiosities about our identity/purpose. And I don't feel it is sufficient for that as only God can explain our purpose and make us understand it. So I can just say whatever I'm American , I'm born here and Palestine is a lost cause and it would be a stressful task to try to turn things in our favor. But I believe our reactions to these situations/conflicts around the world test our character and reveal more about our personality. And I know God will test us by putting us in situations to see how we will react and he gave us an internal moral compass which we should honor.

Opposing oppression everywhere , including in Muslim nations and trying to improve ourselves to become more just to ourselves is the right thing to do. If I can't be this way then it affects me personally because I change as a person and begin to question other things in life. I will ask myself, if I don't believe in justice and upholding a moral stance for a conflict somewhere in the world, then I will question should I even lead a moral lifestyle or how should I lead my life. If I'm not abiding by an aqeedah then my aqeedah will not apply to anything. Whether that be supporting those that are oppressed or going to party with girls at college. I think aqeedah is a wide thing that applies to all aspects of life and we can't seperate one aspect from the rest of them.

That's only reason I maintain such a position on Palestine. Interests of Palestinian people/state is not what should drive my position on Palestine. Palestinian state could be established one day and we could become like a second Lebanon but I'm not gonna going to fit in with them at that point , so what's the point ?

What is in your eyes the way to peace? A one state solution or a two state solution?

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

Thanks for tagging me brother, I believe in the end everyone has the freedom to come to his own conclusions or give his opinions as he/she wishes. If one believes Muslim nations have their share of oppression and wrong doings then this is sound and I wholeheartedly agree we need to be better people as a whole and end violence/oppression in our states. This does not mean we need to support Israel though.

We are in a unique situation as Muslims, we are not doing well spiritual , socially or politically. So this frustrates lots of Muslims who feel we aren't sincere and they develop mentality that the Muslim world is a mess and every country or people's should just look after themselves and it's not worth it to limit their opportunities and potential because of other group of Muslims. And you can't blame them to be honest, they don't know how to approach matters and don't have faith in our leaders, the ones that don't focus on their nation.

So we can say we have problems in the Muslim world and Muslims are their own, have no one but their Lord to look up to. And we shouldn't expect change if we don't change ourselves. In the meantime Muslims are principled people that need to follow principles of Islam to their best ability.

I as a Palestinian will be honest I don't really care about Palestinian nationalism I don't have attachment to it. Because I feel like nationalism tries to satisfy our curiosities about our identity/purpose. And I don't feel it is sufficient for that as only God can explain our purpose and make us understand it. So I can just say whatever I'm American , I'm born here and Palestine is a lost cause and it would be a stressful task to try to turn things in our favor. But I believe our reactions to these situations/conflicts around the world test our character and reveal more about our personality. And I know God will test us by putting us in situations to see how we will react and he gave us an internal moral compass which we should honor.

Opposing oppression everywhere , including in Muslim nations and trying to improve ourselves to become more just to ourselves is the right thing to do. If I can't be this way then it affects me personally because I change as a person and begin to question other things in life. I will ask myself, if I don't believe in justice and upholding a moral stance for a conflict somewhere in the world, then I will question should I even lead a moral lifestyle or how should I lead my life. If I'm not abiding by an aqeedah then my aqeedah will not apply to anything. Whether that be supporting those that are oppressed or going to party with girls at college. I think aqeedah is a wide thing that applies to all aspects of life and we can't seperate one aspect from the rest of them.

That's only reason I maintain such a position on Palestine. Interests of Palestinian people/state is not what should drive my position on Palestine. Palestinian state could be established one day and we could become like a second Lebanon but I'm not gonna going to fit in with them at that point , so what's the point ?

Thanks brother for your insight. I feel very deeply about the situation of Palestinian suffering. It is the heart of the Muslim Ummah and reveals the rotten thinking of so many "Muslim" nations, who just look the other way when their brother is being humiliated and crushed.

To me it is the same parallel as Kashmir, except that Kashmir still has Pakistan willing to fight tooth and nail for its people

In an ideal world, how beautiful to have a nation like that standing for Palestinians next door. How KSA, Egypt, and Syria have disappointed us.. Once upon a time there were heroes like Mamelook, Nuruddin Zengi, Salahuddin Ayyubi, etc. to defend the rights of the innocents. In sha Allah, soon our hero will come, we wait eagerly for him. Do not lose hope, dear brother, our armies will once again march into Al Quds.

I wish we had more Arab members to give their views, esp ones more representative of the common voice of Arab masses like you. Jazak Allahu khair.

I hope Pakistanis can look at the eyes of the youth of Palestine and say with surety, we always supported you and never abandoned you. We would sell the whole world for you.

No one in the Earth could make us leave the blessed path of Rasulullah saws. If Pakistan stands alone in refusing to recognize Israel. Then we alone will earn Allah swt pleasure.

Have we not done the same for Kashmir and Afghanistan? @H. Dawary

We told the world "No," the lives of our next generation are more valuable than your bags of money.

 

[Psychic]

"We are supporting India in its fight against terrorism and because of that my government decided to directly call our ambassador to go back home, not to be Palestine ambassador to Pakistan anymore," Palestinian Ambassador to India Adnan Abu Al Haij said.

https://www.newsheads.in/world/news...Zr2HNlXuzcAl9lNS8yTey66yKWLCsG76ru1Uo806acEZQ

Let me get this straight, muslim countries like Jordan, Saudi Arabia and Egypt have diplomatic relations with Israel while we are one of the only few countries that do not even recognise Israel and for what?, Palestine supports India when it serves their interest, Saudi Arabia and UAE vetoes us in favor of India when it serves theirs while we are suppose to be good little muslims and support those who stab us in the back, harming our own self interest for them, why?

And Isreal has always supported Pakistan against India ???

We ourselves are doing topi dramas. We ourselves threw Hafiz Saed in jail for 11 years, why expect Palestenians to support him?

 

[Falcon29]

What is in your eyes the way to peace? A one state solution or a two state solution?

Two state solution will not work because the one with access over resources will dominate still. One state solution could work but Israel will oppose it to retain Jewish majority.

Only temporary solution is complete settlement freeze and lifting the siege of Gaza for a long term 'break' for both sides.

Thanks brother for your insight. I feel very deeply about the situation of Palestinian suffering. It is the heart of the Muslim Ummah and reveals the rotten thinking of so many "Muslim" nations, who just look the other way when their brother is being humiliated and crushed.

To me it is the same parallel as Kashmir, except that Kashmir still has Pakistan willing to fight tooth and nail for its people

In an ideal world, how beautiful to have a nation like that standing for Palestinians next door. How KSA, Egypt, and Syria have disappointed us.. Once upon a time there were heroes like Mamelook, Nuruddin Zengi, Salahuddin Ayyubi, etc. to defend the rights of the innocents. In sha Allah, soon our hero will come, we wait eagerly for him. Do not lose hope, dear brother, our armies will once again march into Al Quds.

I wish we had more Arab members to give their views, esp ones more representative of the common voice of Arab masses like you. Jazak Allahu khair.

I hope Pakistanis can look at the eyes of the youth of Palestine and say with surety, we always supported you and never abandoned you. We would sell the whole world for you.

No one in the Earth could make us leave the blessed path of Rasulullah saws. If Pakistan stands alone in refusing to recognize Israel. Then we alone will earn Allah swt pleasure.

Have we not done the same for Kashmir and Afghanistan? @H. Dawary

We told the world "No," the lives of our next generation are more valuable than your bags of money.

Thank you brother and I appreciate your spirit, may Allah bless you. May Allah forgive me and you and all Muslims for their sins on these days of Eid.

I commend Pakistanis for their humble and brotherly attitude to other Muslims and I respect you guys for that. You have a powerful nation yet are not arrogant towards other Muslims and you guys love your country in a good way, not in an unhealthy way like some other Muslims do unfortunately. I really respect that and hope Allah protects your nation and people forever.

 

[Psychic]

The Arab world recognises India

We dont?

Cant live without their timatars and can't close airspace but expect others to fight our wars...

Israel will still help India 100%, bus hum apne aap ko bila waja bezzat karenge.

That is in short exactly what will happen.

Pakistan's secular idiots however think that the day we recognize Isreal, we will magically become an advanced country like Singapore. That is the level of their self-deception!