Why Are Russia And Vietnam Increasing Military Cooperation?

[REhorror]

Is Vietnam's defense budget today fully covered by the government? Or it is partially paid by the government, partially paid by the military enterprises?

Can the government appoint any non-military persons to the management positions of Viettel and other military enterprise, or it is the self-appointment made by the military itself?

Can the normal legislation/discipline system work for the military enterprises? Or it is self-disciplined by the military itself?

Vietnam's defense budget is covered by the government.
Regarding Viettel's management positions, I'm not sure, currently the chairman is still military man and it seems the top positions are still occupied by the military:

TGĐ Viettel Construction được thăng quân hàm thượng tá trước thời hạn - Viettel Construction

Ghi nhận những thành tích xuất sắc, góp phần dẫn dắt Viettel Construction phát triển vượt bậc trong những năm qua, Bộ Quốc phòng quyết định thăng quân hàm Thượng tá trước niên hạn cho ông Phạm Đình Trường - Tổng Giám đốc Viettel Construction.

viettelconstruction.com.vn

https://viettelconstruction.com.vn/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/tgd-viettel-construction-duoc-thang-quan-ham-thuong-ta-truoc-thoi-han_TG%C4%90-Ph%E1%BA%A1m-%C4%90%C3%ACnh-Tr%C6%B0%E1%BB%9Dng.jpg

Major General Le Dang Dung, also the CEO of Viettel Group.

But the position is appointed by the government, not the army.

A chairman cum general director will be the State representative to Viettel to implement all rights and duties. The chairman will be nominated by Prime Minister Nguyễn Xuân Phúc upon the National Defence Ministry’s proposal and agreement of the Central Party Committee.
According to the new organisational and operational charter, Viettel will have no more than five deputy general director.

Viettel renamed Military Industry and Telecoms Group

Military-run telecommunications company Viettel Group was officially renamed Viettel Military Industry and Telecoms Group and recognised as the national defence and security enterprise with 100 per cent State-owned capital.

vietnamnews.vn

 

[GS Zhou]

Vietnam's defense budget is covered by the government.

Thanks for sharing the information.

This is pretty interesting. Because in my understanding, the top reason to allow the military to run own business is because the government is too poor to 100% cover the military spending, therefore the government has to make the compromise to allow the military to feed themselves on their own way. At least this is the reason the Chinese government allows the PLA business in the 1980s'.

 

[REhorror]

Thanks for sharing the information.

This is pretty interesting. Because in my understanding, the top reason to allow the military to run own business is because the government is too poor to 100% cover the military spending, therefore the government has to make the compromise to allow the military to feed themselves on their own way. At least this is the reason the Chinese government allows the PLA business in the 1980s'.

Not sure how it is in China but in Vietnam, the relationship between the army and Party is very, very close, both kinda watch each other.
It's always been like that since the old days.

 

[Viet]

China once allowed the army to running business, but the Communist Party of China found that it would seriously damage the army's combat effectiveness. In July 1998, the Communist Party of China banned the military from running business.

The VCP is unable to prevent the army from running business, it shows that the VCP has been unable to control the army. This is a very dangerous signal. Maybe one day Vietnam will become a military government.

Given the belligerence of the Vietnamese, it would be a big problem for all neighbors.

Vietnam military poses no threat to the government. Viet people dislike militarism. We are not Thailand, Philippines, Indonesia or Burma where the army topples the government.
Vietnamese never accept a military rule.
If you look back in VN history this only exception to this is when the country is in danger of a foreign invasion or the ruler appears weak against the enemy.

 

[GS Zhou]

Not sure how it is in China but in Vietnam, the relationship between the army and Party is very, very close, both kinda watch each other.
It's always been like that since the old days.

In China, it is 党指挥枪, or the party commands the guns. So it is not "watch each other", but the military under the absolute control of the party, both mentally and financially. That's the reason we don't allow the military to have their own independent funding resource.

 

[Viet]

In China, it is 党指挥枪, or the party commands the guns. So it is not "watch each other", but the military under the absolute control of the party, both mentally and financially. That's the reason we don't allow the military to have their own independent funding resource.

Not much different in Vietnam however let’s say the communist party of Vietnam fails to defend the country against foreigners they will lose every legitimacy. there is a very likelihood a military general will take over. That’s so in the past. Every Viet emperor or King whether man or woman was a general commanding the army in the war.

 

[MH.Yang]

Vietnam military poses no threat to the government. Viet people dislike militarism. We are not Thailand, Philippines, Indonesia or Burma where the army topples the government.
Vietnamese never accept a military rule.
If you look back in VN history this only exception to this is when the country is in danger of a foreign invasion or the ruler appears weak against the enemy.

We have sufficient historical experience. If an army has independent financial power, even we think with our toes and also know what it will do.

The CCP has absolute control over the army, and even every company has a party branch.

In history, the rebellious officers of the CCP, such as Gong Chu, Yang Yuchun and so on, none could take his troops away. They couldn't even take his guards. They all defected alone.

 

[MH.Yang]

the relationship between the army and Party is very, very close, both kinda watch each other.

You mean they are equal? and Vietnamese think it's no problem?

 

[Viet]

We have sufficient historical experience. If an army has independent financial power, even we think with our toes and also know what it will do.

The CCP has absolute control over the army, and even every company has a party branch.

In history, the rebellious officers of the CCP, such as Gong Chu, Yang Yuchun and so on, none could take his troops away. They couldn't even take his guards. They all defected alone.

Ok that’s interesting. Good to know.
That means Ccp has little trust to the commanding officers.

 

[IblinI]

Ok that’s interesting. Good to know.
That means Ccp has little trust to the commanding officers.

sensational viet again.
Your armed forces are not in a good shape, and you know that.

 

[MH.Yang]

Ok that’s interesting. Good to know.
That means Ccp has little trust to the commanding officers.

You must understand, an army, or even a country, it can only rely on system rather than trust.
No matter how loyal an army is, the government should have absolute control over its finances, personnel, even ideas.
The army only needs to obey orders.

About that, we have a painful lesson in the Han Dynasty, the Tang Dynasty, Five Dynasties and ten countries. If the Vietnamese think that's OK, one day you will pay for it.
I hope that day, we will not be implicated by your naive.

 

[Viet]

You must understand, an army, or even a country, it can only rely on system rather than trust.
No matter how loyal an army is, the government should have absolute control over its finances, personnel, even ideas.
The army only needs to obey orders.

About that, we have a painful lesson in the Han Dynasty, the Tang Dynasty, Five Dynasties and ten countries. If the Vietnamese think that's OK, one day you will pay for it.
I hope that day, we will not be implicated by your naive.

I am not from the army but I think we have a system of control in place that no commander can’t decide alone on his own, a system like Captain and First officer.

 

[REhorror]

In China, it is 党指挥枪, or the party commands the guns. So it is not "watch each other", but the military under the absolute control of the party, both mentally and financially. That's the reason we don't allow the military to have their own independent funding resource.

Is this because of China fearing another Marshall Lin Biao?
Either ways, I think Vietnam is more of a Soviet model, where Party members are in the army, and army members are in the Party.

 

[IblinI]

Is this because of China fearing another Marshall Lin Biao?
Either ways, I think Vietnam is more of a Soviet model, where Party members are in the army, and army members are in the Party.

This was the fundamental policy since the 1930s.

where Party members are in the army, and army members are in the Party.

most of the officers are party members in PLA.

 

[REhorror]

This was the fundamental policy since the 1930s.

most of the officers are party members in PLA.

Same as us then.
Most if not all all the big guys in PAVN are Party members.

You mean they are equal? and Vietnamese think it's no problem?

No, I think vietnamese barely make the distinction, except maybe some even think the army is less corrupted LOL
The Party is much bigger, more people, more corruption.