Why are Muslim nations behind the West and the Far East?

[Muji.Iqbal]

Then why do Salafi and extremist clerics have so many followers that enable them to cause so much trouble?

There is nothing wrong with Salafis, you ignorant moron. Why do you attack the mainstream interpretation?

Why don't you attack Sufism?

 

[Areesh]

R2D2 sahaab, it is not just "They wake up early in the morning". It is that some of them wake to something great in their lives. Whereas many Easterners, particularly desis, wake up to the sound of prayer from prayer houses and then the hurried dash to the wage-slavery places or to "educational" institutions that don't educate but are meant to be assembly lines for outputting into those wage-slavery places. This is the general population of PDF including of the OPer.



I said "Deobandi types". Different individuals but same jahaalat and same oppression. The Hashisheen used to murder philosophers and scientists. Other mullahs like Al Ghazali was against the Rationalists. Ghazali Jaahil say yaad aaya, where are his students like @Areesh @Sayfullah @lastofthepatriots etc on this thread ?

Shut up pervert

 

[Foinikas]

There is nothing wrong with Salafis, you ignorant moron. Why do you attack the mainstream interpretation?

Why don't you attack Sufism?

There's nothing wrong with Salafis?

Are you a Salafi?

 

[merzifonlu]

There is another very interesting situation that I observed, about the peoples of Muslim countries.

In their demonstrations, they demand "justice" from their governments, but they never, ever demand their "freedom and rights". It doesn't even cross their minds. They think it's a rebellion.

There is no justice without freedom! Freedom begins with the freedom of the mind.

 

[FuturePAF]

I am a Pakistani, you moron and I am an Islamist as well.


I meant when compared to USA, or when compared to China and Japan. Watch your mouth before you call others Indian.

I am not an Indiot.


I want Pakistan to be like China or Japan economically.

Unfortunately our imports exceeds our export, like lol. That is according to wikipedia.

Honest answer;

1. Strong internal cohesion where corruption and personal ambitions are limited.
2. First class management that knows how to manage on a limited budget
3. Transfer of technology from the developed world and then R&D to keep up afterwards
4. Having access to the developed world markets to grow your economy to support a robust service sector
5. A well trained work force that produces at globally competitive prices
6. Minimal expenditure on defense and limiting involvement in foreign wars.
7. Stable demographics and a large population to continue the trend for decades
8. A small public sector and a large free private sector where there is significant competition to minimizes losses to corruption and allow failing companies to die and new companies to take their place.
9. Rule of law, especially property rights and the speed at which Justice is carried out.
10. Ease of doing business; little to no red tape/minimal regulations.
11. Modern healthcare so people have fewer kids and invest more in their few kids to maximize HDI.
12. A meritocratic work ethic that doesn’t tolerate sloth or negligence or incompetence.
13. A growing consumer economy, where consumers feel secure to spend their ever growing pay checks on more products, thereby employing more of their countrymen.
14. walkable cities like Barcelona (with decent apartment buildings no higher then 6 stories) with trees and a lot of public transportation, to lower the cost of living (transportation and housing costs as well as air conditioning and health costs to some extend) and make it easier for women to work.
15. Domestic industrial and agricultural capability to meet domestic core needs should the nation be cut off from the rest of the world for whatever reason.

All this adds up to a growing and prosperous middle class as the back bone of a developed economy with global influence and a feeling of physical, judicial and economic safety.

Go down this list and think of all the ways Pakistan could improve. Literally all 15 metrics have to improve.

 

[Muji.Iqbal]

Honest answer;

1. Strong internal cohesion where corruption and personal ambitions are limited.
2. First class management that knows how to manage on a limited budget
3. Transfer of technology from the developed world and then R&D to keep up afterwards
4. Having access to the developed world markets to grow your economy to support a robust service sector
5. A well trained work force that produces at globally competitive prices
6. Minimal expenditure on defense and limiting involvement in foreign wars.
7. Stable demographics and a large population to continue the trend for decades
8. A small public sector and a large free private sector where there is significant competition to minimizes losses to corruption and allow failing companies to die and new companies to take their place.
9. Rule of law, especially property rights and the speed at which Justice is carried out.
10. Ease of doing business; little to no red tape/minimal regulations.
11. Modern healthcare so people have fewer kids and invest more in their few kids to maximize HDI.
12. A meritocratic work ethic that doesn’t tolerate sloth or negligence or incompetence.
13. A growing consumer economy, where consumers feel secure to spend their ever growing pay checks on more products, thereby employing more of their countrymen.
14. walkable cities like Barcelona (with decent apartment buildings no higher then 6 stories) with trees and a lot of public transportation, to lower the cost of living (transportation and housing costs as well as air conditioning and health costs to some extend) and make it easier for women to work.
15. Domestic industrial and agricultural capability to meet domestic core needs should the nation be cut off from the rest of the world for whatever reason.

All this adds up to a growing and prosperous middle class as the back bone of a developed economy with global influence and a feeling of physical, judicial and economic safety.

Go down this list and think of all the ways Pakistan could improve. Literally all 15 metrics have to improve.

Yes. We also need to be an industrialized economy. What do we manufacture? Other than soccer balls, surgical intruments, and clothing?

Who are our trading partners? China can solve all of Pakistan's problems. China needs to invest in Pakistan and buy Pakistani products.

Whether they are agricultural, textiles, or other manufactured products like Kitchen cutlery or cooking pots and pans.

Yes. We also need to be an industrialized economy. What do we manufacture? Other than soccer balls, surgical intruments, and clothing?

Who are our trading partners? China can solve all of Pakistan's problems. China needs to invest in Pakistan and buy Pakistani products.

Whether they are agricultural, textiles, or other manufactured products like Kitchen cutlery or cooking pots and pans.

For agricultural products, there is a large consumer market in China and Middle East.

 

[FuturePAF]

Yes. We also need to be an industrialized economy. What do we manufacture? Other than soccer balls, surgical intruments, and clothing?

Who are our trading partners? China can solve all of Pakistan's problems. China needs to invest in Pakistan and buy Pakistani products.

Whether they are agricultural, textiles, or other manufactured products like Kitchen cutlery or cooking pots and pans.


For agricultural products, there is a large consumer market in China and Middle East.

China can’t solve all our problems. That’s the first point we need to understand. Furthermore, even if they could we shouldn’t become overly reliant or dependent upon them. Least of all because it would undermine the economic and diplomatic relationship we need to maintain with the west. We can’t rely on one market. We need economic and political interdependence with all sides to ensure our country is relevant to enough foreign stakeholders that they will not cut economic or diplomatic ties or side with India against us.

 

[Muji.Iqbal]

China can’t solve all our problem. That’s the first point we need to understand. Furthermore, even if they could we shouldn’t become overly reliant or dependent upon them. Least of all because it would undermine the economic and diplomatic relationship we need to maintain with the west. We can’t rely on one market. We need economic and political interdependence with all sides to ensure our country is relevant to enough foreign stakeholders that they will not cut economic or diplomatic ties or side with India against us.

Correct, I mention China, because they are more of an ally than USA is.

 

[khansaheeb]

If you look towards the West like USA, France, UK, Canada, Germany, Australia, New Zealand, Italy, Spain,

and when you look at the Far East countries like China, Japan, Taiwan, South Korea, and Singapore why are we are behind in science and technology?

An intellectual asked why? Because we are not well educated in the hard sciences and social sciences and the academic disciplines.

How many undergraduates, associate degrees, master degrees, and college diplomas graduates do Muslim majority countries produce?

To bridge the gap, we need to learn industrialization, how to improve governance, how to improve the economy, manufacturing techniques, improve standard of living,
improve the reputation of our countries, and agricultural output of our countries.

People are invited to give their views. We are looking for constructive criticism, and not insults.

Regards.

What else can you expect from a corrupt society when the enemy has been well engrained within?

 

[khansaheeb]

DO you think you or your religion has the toletance to listen to truth.

We do , hence we don't drink gau mutra.

 

[Rollno21]

We do , hence we don't drink gau mutra.

Peshab Mubarak

 

[FuturePAF]

Correct, I mention China, because they are more of an ally than USA is.

We are not officially allies with China but we’re still officially allies with the US. While we still have that status with the US we need to craft a new foreign policy to serve our interests, our economic interests first and foremost, and turn around our global image.

This is partially why I support IK returning to power. one key element to catching up with the west is stability. We need a system that doesn’t openly fight in the way we have been seeing for the last year and a half. That is something you see in Latin America, and you can see the mess they are in, despite more resources and easy access to the US market.

We need to pivot to raising the living standard of our people while not bartering away our core national interests.

 

[Muji.Iqbal]

We are not officially allies with China but we’re still officially allies with the US. While we still have that status with the US we need to craft a new foreign policy to serve our interests, our economic interests first and foremost, and turn around our global image.

This is partially why I support IK returning to power. one key element to catching up with the west is stability. We need a system that doesn’t openly fight in the way we have been seeing for the last year and a half. That is something you see in Latin America, and you can see the mess they are in, despite more resources and easy access to the US market.

We need to pivot to raising the living standard of our people while not bartering away our core national interests.

I concur with you. We need to improve our reputation.

Like for example: We can advertise K2 mountain for tourism purposes. More needs to be done in the reputation sector of our country.

 

[khansaheeb]

Peshab Mubarak

Seems like you are taking the p!ss again.

 

[FuturePAF]

I concur with you. We need to improve our reputation.

Like for example: We can advertise K2 mountain for tourism purposes. More needs to be done in the reputation sector of our country.

Promoting K2 is nice, but it has to be part of a complete revamp of our image.

One that starts with accepting our total history; prehistoric to the present (which allows us define ourselves and not let other define us), which allows us to show how Islam came into the area, and has come to defines a core part of the culture of the people of the region, hence the reason there is a Pakistan.

Next, we need to implement international norms around rule of law and ease of doing business. No one will want to deal with us if it’s a hassle.

In doing this, we can be open to the world in a way we have been holding ourselves back from engaging for 50 years, in the wake of the changes brought on since the 1973 Afghan political spill over and crisis. Just like India de-hyphenated itself from Pakistan (Indo-Pak), we need to de-hyphenate ourselves from Afghanistan (AfPak) in international perceptions.

Being able to move past these kinds of conflicts and focus on improving people’s lives, attracting foreign talent and allowing your people to have more freedom to do creative things (in business and in culture), that sustained a middle class was all part of what propelled the west and east Asia to surpass Islamic countries. Many countries in Latin America failed to achieve this to one degree or another, and therefore aren’t as prosperous.