Who Was The Best Fighter Pilot Ever ?

[shr_bwp]

Dude just chillout it was nothing you are going to give your self a heart Attack just relax that was a jock and he followed.

you got me.....


Any idea how to get a hold of Group Captain S M Hali?? Thanks.

 

[Patriot]

Asked him about the kills..he said there was another pilot with name SCHAMES UL HAQ who got 1 kill ..He himself got 3 confirmed and one unconfirmed SU-7 kill as the Su-7 was giving out smoke but indians claimed he landed just like one of Muradk's unconfirmed kill.

 

[Righteous_Fire]

I challenge YOU

Wow dude! Chill man! and read below:

Dude just chillout it was nothing you are going to give your self a heart Attack just relax that was a jock

PS: Sorry for the late reply, I was posting elsewhere, I hope its cool!! Sorry for any hard feelings

 

[Muradk]

I will send you halis contact.

 

[shr_bwp]

Asked him about the kills..he said there was another pilot with name SCHAMES UL HAQ who got 1 kill ..He himself got 3 confirmed and one unconfirmed SU-7 kill as the Su-7 was giving out smoke but indians claimed he landed just like one of Muradk's unconfirmed kill.

Thank you!

Obviously these websites including Hali are all wrong - they all give the credit to Flt. Lt. Schames (this Shams was a F/O at the time of the action). With all four (Schames, Shams, wingmen Shamshad and Gul), and other 14 Sqd. pilots Dilawar Hussain, Afzaal alive, clearing this up would be a cinch (I would hate to think one is claiming the other's kills)


I wish he would join the forum - though be interesting to record his story for posterity... a F/O with 3 kills and an SJ....really cool.....shame he left though.

Pakistan Institute for Air Defence Studies </HEAD> Pakistan Institute for Air Defence Studies </HEAD>


http://jpgleize.club.fr/aces/indpak.htm


http://www.pakdef.info/pids/paf/hali1a.html

 

[Patriot]

Just want to clarify that SCHAMES UL HAQ DID Get 1 kill..Shams-ul-Huq on the other hand got 3 kills and one unconfirmed Su-7 kill which was not claimed by anyone except himself but it could not be confirmed.

 

[Muradk]

Thank you!

Obviously these websites including Hali are all wrong - they all give the credit to Flt. Lt. Schames (this Shams was a F/O at the time of the action). With all four (Schames, Shams, wingmen Shamshad and Gul), and other 14 Sqd. pilots Dilawar Hussain, Afzaal alive, clearing this up would be a cinch (I would hate to think one is claiming the other's kills)


I wish he would join the forum - though be interesting to record his story for posterity... a F/O with 3 kills and an SJ....really cool.....shame he left though.

Pakistan Institute for Air Defence Studies </HEAD> Pakistan Institute for Air Defence Studies </HEAD>


http://jpgleize.club.fr/aces/indpak.htm


http://www.pakdef.info/pids/paf/hali1a.html

ok on a serious note what is with you and Shames who did what and who got what its over buddy they were both hero's, PAF had about 7 Shames with different last names, I am really worried about you this shames case will give you an ulcer and that not good for you. I am serious what kind of closure are you looking for.
1 PAF admits they were wrong
2 The pilots were wrong.
in either case things can't change we all know they were hero's just think 1 SQD against 10 IAF SQD pounding them every day with all they got and these sher ka bachas kept on fighting. Second Rourke's Drift

 

[shr_bwp]

ok on a serious note what is with you and Shames who did what and who got what its over buddy they were both hero's, PAF had about 7 Shames with different last names, I am really worried about you this shames case will give you an ulcer and that not good for you. I am serious what kind of closure are you looking for.
1 PAF admits they were wrong
2 The pilots were wrong.
in either case things can't change we all know they were hero's just think 1 SQD against 10 IAF SQD pounding them every day with all they got and these sher ka bachas kept on fighting. Second Rourke's Drift

Firstly, thank you for your response.

Secondly, what WILL give me an ulcer is the inability to record history ACCURATELY, specially in cases like this when everyone who was involved is alive and well (Two pilots, two wingmen, a squadron full of cheering mates). History, and specially my favorite Military History is full of acknowledged inaccuracies (e.g. I am currently reading a book on the "race" to be top scorer between McGuire and Bong in the Pacific and it acknowleges that there several kills for both that never got acknowleged for want of witnesses). Here we have a perfect situation to set the record straight for someone, say, 50 years from now would not have a problem believing the record. Sir, do not worry there are far bigger problems in the world today that would give me an ulcer quicker than this - just turn on the TV!!!

Would you not want that the proper "Sher kaa Bacha" is acknowledged in every record keeping venue??? Hali's story can be corrected and so can the PIADS web record as well as Jagan...

To me it is big deal that we have one chap getting three kills, getting a SJ as a F/O (how many have done that?) and that these so called history records are showing some one else had those kills... THAT is the kind of closure I am looking for, okay sir, with respect.

Thirdly, what is this Second Rourke's Drift ?

 

[Righteous_Fire]

You said!

the inability to record history ACCURATELY,

would you like to elaborate?

 

[Patriot]

Firstly, thank you for your response.

Secondly, what WILL give me an ulcer is the inability to record history ACCURATELY, specially in cases like this when everyone who was involved is alive and well (Two pilots, two wingmen, a squadron full of cheering mates). History, and specially my favorite Military History is full of acknowledged inaccuracies (e.g. I am currently reading a book on the "race" to be top scorer between McGuire and Bong in the Pacific and it acknowleges that there several kills for both that never got acknowleged for want of witnesses). Here we have a perfect situation to set the record straight for someone, say, 50 years from now would not have a problem believing the record. Sir, do not worry there are far bigger problems in the world today that would give me an ulcer quicker than this - just turn on the TV!!!

Would you not want that the proper "Sher kaa Bacha" is acknowledged in every record keeping venue??? Hali's story can be corrected and so can the PIADS web record as well as Jagan...

To me it is big deal that we have one chap getting three kills, getting a SJ as a F/O (how many have done that?) and that these so called history records are showing some one else had those kills... THAT is the kind of closure I am looking for, okay sir, with respect.

Thirdly, what is this Second Rourke's Drift ?

What you talking about mate..The official records credits Shams-ul-huq with 3 kills and that is correct..so where is the problem..?Schames-ul-huq got only 1 kill.

 

[shr_bwp]

You said!



would you like to elaborate?

I am not sure what elaboration you wish.... I think that one pilot has a certain number of kills and whatever record there is seems to be giving them to someone else.....even Mr. MuradK in his first posting on this issue (Schames vs Shams), in this thread (check it out) described Shamsulhaq as Skamish - which to me sounded like it WAS Schames who got the three kills - the constant use of Flt. Lt. to designate the pilot is another confusion. Now we have confirmation that it was the Shams and not Skamish or Schames who was a F/O at the time who got the 3 kills.

Bottom line: all the chaps are alive - if someone doubts the record of this Shams (which Hali seems to have as well as the other links shown)- get a hold of the other , and more importantly the wingmen (Shamshad and Gul) who are confirmed as being part of the action on that day (as well as the other 14 Sqn. pilots who were there) and resolve it - NO BIG DEAL. THE FUTURE GENERATIONS ARE OWED an accurate record specially when it is so easy to correct.

 

[shr_bwp]

What you talking about mate..The official records credits Shams-ul-huq with 3 kills and that is correct..so where is the problem..?Schames-ul-huq got only 1 kill.

Look at posts # 143 and 145 in this thread and you will get the jist of it.....

 

[Patriot]

I am not sure what elaboration you wish.... I think that one pilot has a certain number of kills and whatever record there is seems to be giving them to someone else.....even Mr. MuradK in his first posting on this issue (Schames vs Shams), in this thread (check it out) described Shamsulhaq as Skamish - which to me sounded like it WAS Schames who got the three kills - the constant use of Flt. Lt. to designate the pilot is another confusion. Now we have confirmation that it was the Shams and not Skamish or Schames who was a F/O at the time who got the 3 kills.

Bottom line: all the chaps are alive - if someone doubts the record of this Shams (which Hali seems to have as well as the other links shown)- get a hold of the other , and more importantly the wingmen (Shamshad and Gul) who are confirmed as being part of the action on that day (as well as the other 14 Sqn. pilots who were there) and resolve it - NO BIG DEAL. THE FUTURE GENERATIONS ARE OWED an accurate record specially when it is so easy to correct.

Oh you should not worry what GC Hali thinks.The thing is PAF official record states that Shams-ul-huq got the kills and that is exactly what matters and Sir Muradk too also stated this in his post where he posted the images.

 

[Muradk]

Now I am going to get an Ulcer someone call 911.

 

[shr_bwp]

Now I am going to get an Ulcer someone call 911.

...no need to react this way, everybody. I am sure that there are things that bother each of that I will find acceptable and vice versa, as in this case. So, no worries!

Mr. MuradK:

what is this Second Rourke's Drift?

I disagree - what Hali thinks IS pertinent......and needs to be corrected.