4th December 1971, Marked the beginning of the greatest air battle of the day, Led by Flt LT Shams-ul-Haq PAF nick name Skamish with a equally young spirited Flg Off S Shamshad Ahmed on hid wing. 2 F-86s of NO14 SQD scrambled at 0845. Just as their wheels were locking-up the F-86s were fired upon by a flight of 4 Su-7s which were attacking the runway at that time. Shams shot down 1 Su-7 with a sidewinder, while being sheered by 14 SQD airmen watching from below. In the ensuing air battle, Shams downed another 2 more enemy Hunters while Shamshad bagged 1.
On that day 14 SQD pilots shot 9 enemy fighters for the loss of 3 F-86s.
Flg Off S Shamshad Ahmed shot another hunter on the 6th of Dec.
Here let me give you a few facts
1965 war 14 SQD in 3 days did this.
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1971 war 14 SQD Decca in 3 days did this.
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That is mind blowing 14 SQD at its best.
plus 14 SQD in Afghan Conflict.
This is where you are confusing me
there were 2 yes but spelled differently and both are still alive not dead.
F/L Schames-ul-Haq 14 SQD 1971
F/O Shams -ul-Haq 14 SQD 1971
the Schames retired as a Group Captain very much alive lives in Karachi
the Shams retired as a F/O in 1974 and he is alive as well lives in Pindi.
Shams and Shamshad were my students in FLS ON SABERS.
Both the hunters shot down by SQD LDR Javed Afzaal and F/L Schames-ul-Haq belonged to IAF NO 37 SQD Hunters. The pilots off these ill-fated Hunters were S/L AB Samanta and F/L SG Khonde, both pilots were killed in action.
later on I will tell you how we shot Butani saved his As- from BDs and talked to him and took his photo.
First of all
for indulging me once again.
Secondly, maafi chahtaa hoo - I did not intend to confuse you. Here is where I am confused:
In your first post above it seems to me that the Shams who got three kills was a Flt. Lt. Shams ul haq nicknamed "Skamish", then
in your second post where you posted the Tail Choppers (what I presume) official record it shows that there were TWO Flt. Lt. (named Shamsul haq and Schames ul haq) the first got 3 the second got 1. The confusion here is that the Shams who got three as per your first post has a nickname that sounds eerily like the phonetic literal pronunciation of the SECOND "Shams" - I can see why the second Flt. Lt. can be nicknamed Skamish (as per your first post).
In your last post you are saying that there were two Shams' one a Flt. Lt. the other a F/O - which unfortunately adds more confusion because the official record shows both to be Flt. Lts. Does this mean that the F/O was the one who got the three? If so, the official record should be corrected, don't you think so, for the sake of accuracy?
The only thing seems certain (as per official records) is that the one named Flt. Lt. Schames ul haq only had one kill. The other 3 can be attributed to a F/O Shams or a Flt. Lt. Shams. PLEASE CONFIRM.
(Personally, I believe YOUR post that the pilot nicknamed "Skamish" -Schames ul haq got the three kills and not the other Shams - I can see why, based on this pilot's spelling, people would tease him by pronouncing his name as spelt. The official record which does not even get the rank of the other Shams right, is also probably incorrect here. Why do I believe so? because Schames' instructor MuradK , imho, describes the action on 4th December as so...there is, quite frankly, an element of appropriate pride in the way MuradK describes the action of one his students. Finally, the instructor pilot is NOT going to get the rank of the pilot who got three kills, wrong- no way. The official record can be wrong or misprint but not the memory of an instructor who taught someone to do something and that someone applied that knowledge and got three kills. NICE)
Another thing: while looking for some contacts in Edmund, Oklahoma I, conincidentally, came across this profile:
Shams Chohaan - Google Profile
Now, who IS this "Shams ul haq" who is also ex-PAF (bottom of the profile page)
All I can say is that people should stop naming their children Shams ul haq, or get the spelling right, or make sure only one ends up in the air force, or only one ends up in the same Squadron, for the love of God!!!!
PS: Can you post Bhutani's photo that was taken? Is he the same one for which you posted the news footage from 1971 (********.com)? If so, according to unofficial IAF records AA brought him down, is that correct?
PS: Shayed mujhey rozaa lug rahaa hai