Who was behind the fall of the OTTOMAN Empire?

[antiobl]

Originally posted by Yahya@Nov 21 2005, 01:24 PM
i totaly agree but not with the mullah part..the mullahs in 1500s where quite intelegent and sophisticated folk..what we know now as mullah is a new breed which became popular 50s onwards. before that mullahs where not at all ignorant and lazy folk. they where quite intelegent and knowledgable. how ever they where declining rapidly in numbers.

we can confirm this by having a look at some punjabi sufis.

Shah Hussain: 1539-1599
Sultan Bahu: 1629-1690
Bulleh Shah: 1680-1758
Waris Shah: 1722-1798
Mian Mohammed Baksh: 1830-1904
Khawaja Farid: 1841-1901

I understand that some folks would look at Punjabi Sufis' pictures with beards and assume they were Mullahs. The reality is pretty different though. These Sufis were vehemently opposed to Mullahs. Here is one verse from the Sufi poems.

Mullah! you just go through motions with religious books
without ever getting to the true meaning
As it is, O Mullah! you are like a donkey (jackass)
carrying around a load of books

So yes Mullahs were one of the many factors that lead to the downfall of the Ottoman empire. Turks realized it and kicked Mullahdom out of their society. Kamal Ataturk wasn't a mad man. He knew that Mullahs have to be thrown out of the government. Rest of it as they say is history.

Best regards

 

[umairperacha]

I don’t have source on net to show you guys but I have a book with me and some articles on news papers which clearly shows the secret organization's methods and ways to get hold of every thing.
Jews want to make the greater Israel. Not from now but from centuries this is their plan. The Free Mason came to life way before century in the city of Babul (near Baghdad) where the Jewish were living as slaves and their holy land Palestine was destroyed. Then they formed this secret agency to and helped Persian king to invade Babul that’s why the Persian king let them go back to their land.
After that the Free Mason had changed over time. In early 20th century they had a meeting in Russia where all the great Jews business men were invited so that they could have there own holy land back from Muslims and Christians.
In 15th century the Jewish were killed massively on the order of England’s king in London. But now we all see that Christians believe that by helping Jewish the killer of their Holy Prophet (That’s what Christians think) they are making there homes in Heaven.
Dear folks this is a huge topic to discuss but I am telling you just pieces of it. The new Bible written in USA was written by a criminal for the Jewish to bridge the gap between the two.
Today the Jews are holding all of USA politically, economically, militarily and so that’s why the war of Iraq is going on. The soul purpose of USA is to help Israel. You will se after Iraq it will be Iran than Syria and so on...
They are our enemy as far as I believe. They even attack Hazrat Mohammad (P.B.U.H.) but the Holy Prophet knows that. They tried to help Invaders in Medina in Ghazwah-e-Khandak. Our Holy Prophet had fought war with them in Khyber.
So, don’t take them easy and don’t even think about friendship with them. The Holy Quran says: “Jews and Christians will never remain loyal to Muslims”.
Mullah is not a bad person if he is what makes him bad then? is it his language? no many mullah's speak different languages then is it his color? no many mullah's are white many are black then what is it aah I know they have only one thing in common what that? thats Quran and Hadees oh my god so is that what made them bad? I guess
Dears folks think about it once. What makes them common isn't it Quran and Hadees? other wise they have nothing in common to which all of us has to have hate in our hearts.
Christians call there Mullahs Father and us?
Think about it

 

[sigatoka]

The Unfortunate and simplest answer is that the Sultan was responsible. He was responsible by allying with Germany which was defeated. The reasons for the alliance was because the two nations had friendly relations for a long time.

Becaue of the downfall of the Ottoman many arab nation achieved freedom and local rule. the Ottomans did use force when necessary to maintain their empire.

If the Ottomons were still around it would be phenomenally powerful muslim state that might have oppressed its arab citizens. So yes a muslim state could be very powerful by ruthlessly crushing its neighbours, hey even saddam tried it.

but wouldnt it be a hundred times better that all muslim nations could be governed at the local level but the heads of states would come togehter to coperate in all fields.

The first option might sound great if the entire muslim world would be ruled from Karachi, but how would pakistan feel if they and the entire muslim world were ruled from Jakarta (Indonesia capital) and all disagreements were resolved with ruthless force.

The Caliphate can be alive today in spirit if not in form if muslim nation heads got together and coperated peacefully in science, trade, military, rather than always dreaming for rule of the entire muslim world from one city.

 

[antiobl]

Originally posted by sigatoka@Nov 27 2005, 07:34 PM
The Unfortunate and simplest answer is that the Sultan was responsible. He was responsible by allying with Germany .....

The first option might sound great if the entire muslim world would be ruled from Karachi, .....

The Caliphate can be alive today in spirit if not in form if muslim nation heads got together and coperated peacefully in science, trade, military, rather than always dreaming for rule of the entire muslim world from one city.

Degeneration of Turks started long before WWI. It had nothing to do with alliance with Germany or Timbuktu. When you are weak from within, nothing helps or hurts from outside.

Caliphate model of governing large and diverse areas from one city failed many centuries ago. And FYI it will fail again if you ever are successful in bringing it back.

You may ask why? Well Caliphate is Allah's incarnation on this Earth. As a Caliph, you are the representative of Allah and none else. That my friend reduces the role of ordinary people and gives tremendous power to Mullahs. When Mullahs become too powerful, the nations do not survive for long. That is why Ottomans didn't survive either.


Best regards

Peace on Earth.

 

[Sharjeel]

Originally posted by antiobl@Nov 22 2005, 03:41 PM
I understand that some folks would look at Punjabi Sufis' pictures with beards and assume they were Mullahs. The reality is pretty different though. These Sufis were vehemently opposed to Mullahs. Here is one verse from the Sufi poems.

Mullah! you just go through motions with religious books
without ever getting to the true meaning
As it is, O Mullah! you are like a donkey (jackass)
carrying around a load of books

So yes Mullahs were one of the many factors that lead to the downfall of the Ottoman empire. Turks realized it and kicked Mullahdom out of their society. Kamal Ataturk wasn't a mad man. He knew that Mullahs have to be thrown out of the government. Rest of it as they say is history.

Best regards

[post=3456]Quoted post[/post]​

thats because there was a difrent type of mullah emerging.

"maar na mullah mulania, assaan azlu sutray shahi hoo, masjid mandir wais kitabaan, assaa apnay aap teh utray hoo" (through not your words at us mullah for i am better then you, there are books in masjids and mandirs, but i tought my self) Ghulam Farid

MULLAH = Professor! the thinking sort. new mullah was slightly difrent as he was the type to just read books without understanding what they meant.. and then the newer mullah is even more difrent as he doesnt even look at books and learn...


if a polotician in greed of power rises the flag of islam and sais he is a mullah he is not. it was the politicians who lead to the fall of the khaliftul usmania as a mullah who knows books would have known that the khalifs power is obsolute in the kingdom second only to ALLAHs (sais so in hadith). but the ignorance of this golden rule showes they where indeed just pretending to be mullahs.

there are a few mullahs today..whome you might call idiots.

for example Dr Zakir nake who is doctor by qualification [M.B.B.S. (Bachelor of Medicine and Bachelor of Surgery)]

and Dr Israr Ahmed who is also MBBS!

and contrary to common belief that Dr Israr was some kid who grew up in some madrassa which is totaly BS, Dr Israr got reali deep into islam in the final days of his MBBS. as he said there was a lot of propoganda by the US to get people into the field of MULLAHs so they can counter the ruskys..this is what created the new mullah who doesnt even know anything....Dr Israr knows more about things such as stingers, bunkerbusters, radar, etc then all of us combined..he was describing them breifly on TV...

 

[Sharjeel]

Originally posted by sigatoka@Nov 27 2005, 02:34 PM
The Unfortunate and simplest answer is that the Sultan was responsible. He was responsible by allying with Germany which was defeated. The reasons for the alliance was because the two nations had friendly relations for a long time.

Becaue of the downfall of the Ottoman many arab nation achieved freedom and local rule. the Ottomans did use force when necessary to maintain their empire.

If the Ottomons were still around it would be phenomenally powerful muslim state that might have oppressed its arab citizens. So yes a muslim state could be very powerful by ruthlessly crushing its neighbours, hey even saddam tried it.

but wouldnt it be a hundred times better that all muslim nations could be governed at the local level but the heads of states would come togehter to coperate in all fields.

The first option might sound great if the entire muslim world would be ruled from Karachi, but how would pakistan feel if they and the entire muslim world were ruled from Jakarta (Indonesia capital) and all disagreements were resolved with ruthless force.

The Caliphate can be alive today in spirit if not in form if muslim nation heads got together and coperated peacefully in science, trade, military, rather than always dreaming for rule of the entire muslim world from one city.

[post=3894]Quoted post[/post]​

lol

you wrong mate.

the ottomans needed the germans help as spain and greece and france even had their eyes on istanbal aka constantinople. and there where plans to take istanbul thus the ottomans where forced into alliance with the germans in return for the latest defence equipment.

and no the simpler solution is to reform the OIC and give it more powers and some teeth. a stronger OIC would drasticly improve the muslim situation. and thats what is happening right now.

 

[Sharjeel]

Originally posted by umairperacha@Nov 26 2005, 01:24 PM
I don’t have source on net to show you guys but I have a book with me and some articles on news papers which clearly shows the secret organization's methods and ways to get hold of every thing.
Jews want to make the greater Israel. Not from now but from centuries this is their plan. The Free Mason came to life way before century in the city of Babul (near Baghdad) where the Jewish were living as slaves and their holy land Palestine was destroyed. Then they formed this secret agency to and helped Persian king to invade Babul that’s why the Persian king let them go back to their land.
After that the Free Mason had changed over time. In early 20th century they had a meeting in Russia where all the great Jews business men were invited so that they could have there own holy land back from Muslims and Christians.
In 15th century the Jewish were killed massively on the order of England’s king in London. But now we all see that Christians believe that by helping Jewish the killer of their Holy Prophet (That’s what Christians think) they are making there homes in Heaven.
Dear folks this is a huge topic to discuss but I am telling you just pieces of it. The new Bible written in USA was written by a criminal for the Jewish to bridge the gap between the two.
Today the Jews are holding all of USA politically, economically, militarily and so that’s why the war of Iraq is going on. The soul purpose of USA is to help Israel. You will se after Iraq it will be Iran than Syria and so on...
They are our enemy as far as I believe. They even attack Hazrat Mohammad (P.B.U.H.) but the Holy Prophet knows that. They tried to help Invaders in Medina in Ghazwah-e-Khandak. Our Holy Prophet had fought war with them in Khyber.
So, don’t take them easy and don’t even think about friendship with them. The Holy Quran says: “Jews and Christians will never remain loyal to Muslims”.
Mullah is not a bad person if he is what makes him bad then? is it his language? no many mullah's speak different languages then is it his color? no many mullah's are white many are black then what is it aah I know they have only one thing in common what that? thats Quran and Hadees oh my god so is that what made them bad? I guess
Dears folks think about it once. What makes them common isn't it Quran and Hadees? other wise they have nothing in common to which all of us has to have hate in our hearts.
Christians call there Mullahs Father and us?
Think about it

[post=3764]Quoted post[/post]​

who wrote the book???

any tom dick and harry can print a book.

as i said freemasons are difrent. freemasons are not jews. freemasons are related to the knights of the round table and knights templer and knights hospitlers. some say freemasons in reality are knights from the crusades who after the crusades gained control of most of europe and control their kings etc...the supreme leader of freemasons in UK at the least is the queen! the queen is a christian and is bound by the church.

they are christians!! and christians think jews are kafir and jews think christians are kafir!

the jews are no way that power full if they where they wouldnt have had a puny hitler takiing them to pieces!! (he was puny when he strarted)

 

[antiobl]

Originally posted by Yahya@Nov 29 2005, 11:25 PM
.....

MULLAH = Professor! the thinking sort. ......
.......there was a lot of propoganda by the US to get people into the field of MULLAHs so they can counter the ruskys
..this is what created the new mullah who doesnt even know anything.

...Dr Israr knows more about things such as stingers, bunkerbusters, radar, etc then all of us combined

..he was describing them breifly on TV...

Not sure. Mullah was never a professor. Alim was supposed to be one.

However Mullah has always been this doofus character who was only good for reading few Ayats during Khushi-Ghami (happy or sad) times.

FYI. Mullah Nasiruddin is not a modern day invention. Not sure about Dr. Israr and his knwoldege of weapons.

Kind regards

 

[Sharjeel]

Originally posted by antiobl@Dec 2 2005, 03:31 AM
Not sure. Mullah was never a professor. Alim was supposed to be one.

However Mullah has always been this doofus character who was only good for reading few Ayats during Khushi-Ghami (happy or sad) times.

FYI. Mullah Nasiruddin is not a modern day invention. Not sure about Dr. Israr and his knwoldege of weapons.

Kind regards

[post=4204]Quoted post[/post]​

the MULLAH in past was like a professor..Alim is the next level...

 

[RAPTOR]

Turkey was once a big muslim state Iraq, Saudia Arabia etc were just provinces of that state but then there was a huge secret war agains them and the people or organization involved were Free Mason basically juish in form of muslims they destroyed every thing they made all the plans with bigger powers in WW1 so they could get waht they want, Israel.

Yes youre right, the JEWS were responsible for the fall of the Ottoman Empire.

you need to understand that the Jews have been around for centuries. They were responsible for the fall of the Roman Empire, the Egyptian empire,the Romanovs, The Moorish empire in Spain and with some influences in the fall of the Moguls.

Today , the JEWS control the Media, the Money,The Weaponry (US army has become the largest Zionist Army in History) ...Jews control the world today.

By the way, close to Pakistan....did anyone know that Lord Mountbatten's wife was a JEW?? The Last viceroy and the man dedicated to the task of dividing india and Pakistan ...had a JEWISH (Zionist) wife.

 

[InsightDubai]

the romans were defeated by the muslims, lol not jews, the jews were allies of the romans and were left to rules jerusalem. Romans are mentioned in the bible as the foruth beast which will oppress the christians as they had managed to kill 600,000 christians and the jews to save their neck sighted with the romans. According to the prophecy of the bible the a comforter and a messiah will come and defeat the fourth beast who had enslaved the followers of Elah (Allah) and that will be the chosen messiah and he will establish the kingdom of god on earth. and that was muhammad, romans were defeated by the muslims of Arabia. Prophecy take from the book muhammad in the bibe by Professor 'Abdu 'L-Ahad Dawud, B.D., the writer of the present series of articles is the former Reverend David Benjamin Keldani, B.D., a Roman Catholic priest of the Uniate-Caldean sect.When asked how he came to Islam he wrote:

"My conversion to Islam cannot be attributed to any cause other than the gracious direction of the Almighty Allah. Without this Divine guidance all learning, search and other efforts to find the Truth may even lead one astray. The moment I believed in the Absolute Unity of God His Holy Apostle Muhammed Peace and blessings of Allâh be upon him became the pattern of my conduct and behavior."

I propose through this article and the ones which will follow to show that the doctrine of Islam concerning the Deity and the last great messenger of Allâh is perfectly true and conforms to the teachings of the Bible.

I shall devote the present article to discussing the first point, and in a few other papers I shall attempt to show that Prophet Muhammad (Peace and blessings of Allâh be upon him) is the real object of the Covenant and in him, and him alone, are actually and literally fulfilled all the prophecies in the Old Testament.

I wish to make it quite clear that the views set out in this article and those which will follow it are quite personal, and that I am alone responsible for my personal and unborrowed researches in the Hebrew Sacred Scriptures. I do not, however, assume an authoritative attitude in expounding the teachings of Islam, meaning submission to God.

I have neither the slightest intention nor desire to hurt the religious feelings of Christian friends. I love Christ, Moses and Abraham, as I do Prophet Muhammad (Peace and blessings of Allâh be upon them all) and all other holy prophets of God.

My writings are not intended to raise a bitter and therefore useless dispute with the Churches, but only invite them to a pleasant and friendly investigation of this all-important question with a spirit of love and impartiality. If the Christians desist from their vain attempt of defining the essence of the Supreme Being, and confess His absolute Oneness, then a union between them and the Muslims is not only probable but extremely possible. For once the Oneness of God is accepted and acknowledged; the other points of difference between the two faiths can more easily be settled.

also read history of islam by darussalaam publications in englidh from their website, will provide you of a more acurate history of Islam.

you can read muahmmad in the bible by the reverend benjamin keldani online for free from my personal website which is still underconstruction... http://abdulmajid.insightdubai.com/index.php?id=29,159,0,0,1,0

[Mod Edit: InsightDubai, please do NOT preach here. This is not a 'madrassa' or 'ijtema'. Keep to the topic, "The Fall of the Ottoman Empire" and you would avoid breaking rules of this forum as well as wasting Mods' time. Thnx]

 

[RAPTOR]

Well, regarding the ottoman empire....the British very sadistically carved up the ottoman empire into modern day arabia, the sheikhdoms, parts of egypt and Libya,Iraq,Central asia, Albania,Bosnia etc. Then the Turkish script was changed from Arabic to Latin. All knowledge of the past glory of the ottomans was forgotten and a Nationalist Turkey came into being. Today, Turkey has been sucessfully isolated from the Islamic world and will be kept waiting forever at the gates of Europe....Never to be included into the EU.

But even today....if the Moslem countries would combine and form an Islamic version of the EU....it would be an economic , military superpower! But alas the usual Jew/ Christian conspirators keep it divided and on its knees...only to be humiliated.
< The Crusades are still on and will continue until every moslem land is occupied or destroyed >

 

[A.Rahman]

Well, regarding the ottoman empire....the British very sadistically carved up the ottoman empire into modern day arabia, the sheikhdoms, parts of egypt and Libya,Iraq,Central asia, Albania,Bosnia etc. Then the Turkish script was changed from Arabic to Latin. All knowledge of the past glory of the ottomans was forgotten and a Nationalist Turkey came into being. Today, Turkey has been sucessfully isolated from the Islamic world and will be kept waiting forever at the gates of Europe....Never to be included into the EU.

But even today....if the Moslem countries would combine and form an Islamic version of the EU....it would be an economic , military superpower! But alas the usual Jew/ Christian conspirators keep it divided and on its knees...only to be humiliated.
< The Crusades are still on and will continue until every moslem land is occupied or destroyed >

Raptor really good post.

 

[RAPTOR]

Raptor really good post.

Thanks A.Rahman.

 

[Sid]

Modern day crusades are more about energy sources and wealth than religion. Indeed Muslims have become to bear the burdens that Jews bore at the hands of Nazis. Muslims need to forget their petty issues and problems, unite and make a stand.