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Are Pakistan's Military forces a contemporary example of the Jaanissaries from the Ottoman Empire

Bro, what changed for you and when exactly? I remember you were very passionate about it until a while ago.

For me, it all started not so long ago, when I saw the way that the police were firing upon civilians in the Zaman Park attack. I've begun to slowly accept the reality, in that I do not want to be part of a hegemonic force that tortures its own civilians.

I never want to have to make the decision between the chain of command and the civilians of the country that I once loved so dearly.

In short, my heart has been broken over Pakistan and the hope I once had, has pretty much died. I don't know what it would take to bring that love back.
 
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I believe that if we are to understand the current structure and functioning of the Pakistani Military establishment a good analogy is to study the Jaanissaries of the Ottomans. Though the JNS were essential in helping the Ottoman's build an empire they eventually starting killing the nation state or the hand that fed them. In our case our military accomplishments are less glorious and yet we find our military structure operate in the manner that the Jaanissaries did at the tail end of this influence. In the end the Khalifah of the time had to crush them for the state to survive.
Here is an interesting excerpt from Wiki - the analogy is scary.

"As Janissaries became aware of their own importance, they began to desire a better life. By the early 17th century Janissaries had such prestige and influence that they dominated the government. They could mutiny, dictate policy, and hinder efforts to modernize the army structure. Additionally, the Janissaries found they could change Sultans as they wished through palace coups. They made themselves landholders and tradesmen. They would also limit the enlistment to the sons of former Janissaries who did not have to go through the original training period in the acemi oğlan, as well as avoiding the physical selection, thereby reducing their military value. When Janissaries could practically extort money from the Sultan and business and family life replaced martial fervour, their effectiveness as combat troops decreased. The northern borders of the Ottoman Empire slowly began to shrink southwards after the second Battle of Vienna in 1683.[citation needed]"
Thank you for letting me know of this history. More can be found in

Interestingly, this type of 'Hijacking' of government is not uncommon. For example, see:
 
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For me, it all started not so long ago, when I saw the way that the police were firing upon civilians in the Zaman Park attack. I've begun to slowly accept the reality, in that I do not want to be part of a hegemonic force that tortures its own civilians.

I never want to have to make the decision between the chain of command and the civilians of the country that I once loved so dearly.

In short, my heart has been broken over Pakistan and the hope I once had, has pretty much died. I don't know what it would take to bring that love back.
Your heart is in the right place. Don't despair. You can serve your country and it's people in many capacities. Infact, I'd argue if you are an honest person who doesn't deprive others' of their haqq , then you are an asset for this country. Doesn't matter if you are an army officer or a mere clerk.
 
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Your heart is in the right place. Don't despair. Hi You can serve your country and it's people in many capacities. Infact, I'd argue if you are an honest person who doesn't deprive others' of their haqq , then you are an asset for this country. Doesn't matter if you are an army officer or a mere clerk.
Though I still yearn for the dream, it is likely that I will wait it out until I see change that’s worth striving for- be it IK’s return or even complete societal upheaval
 
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Though I still yearn for the dream, it is likely that I will wait it out until I see change that’s worth striving for- be it IK’s return or even complete societal upheaval
It will take a long time to tame this Frankenstein's monster, provided IK lives, wins and we even get started.

Off topic, If you don't mind sharing, how old are you?
 
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For me, it all started not so long ago, when I saw the way that the police were firing upon civilians in the Zaman Park attack. I've begun to slowly accept the reality, in that I do not want to be part of a hegemonic force that tortures its own civilians.

I never want to have to make the decision between the chain of command and the civilians of the country that I once loved so dearly.

In short, my heart has been broken over Pakistan and the hope I once had, has pretty much died. I don't know what it would take to bring that love back.
Never lose hope, now is the time to fight! Fight with what ever means you can, use words, use money, use strength... but now is not the time to give up! Let's fight at least before accepting defeat. Right now IK is putting up such a marvelous fight, why should we give up just yet?
 
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LOOOOOOOOLLL

NO.

Pakistan Army is not a contemporary of Janisaries. Judging you on your comparison, you've read very less about Janisaries.

They were subordinates of the Sultan and maintained dominance under the Military wing. No matter what, they remained loyal to the Sultan, won them a lot of battles like no one else, fought till the end.

And here we've the Pakistan Army. Got some Kashmir in 1948 with the help of Tribals who ended up looting/raping Kashmiris themselves.

Were about to lose Lahore in 65 after a TACTICALLY POOR OPERATION GIBRALTAR WHERE SSG OPERATIVES WERE SLAUGHTERED AND MASSACRED BY THE INDIAN ARMY AND LOCAL KASHMIRIS. While the operation was tactically opposed by Col Mahdi of SSG.

Badly lost 1971 yet again due to poor planning. Not only that, but wrecked up the Bengali civilians pretty bad.

Lost Siachaen
Lost Kargil

Moral corruption:

Officers were literally swapping wives or presenting their wives to higher-ups for promotions during 1950s-1970s, god knows till when. As mentioned in Humood Ur Rehman Commission.

Most of the higher-ups are Sharabis but not only them, but ISSB is designed to select psycho bullies who start messing around pretty young.

You know what are they? They're the contemporaries of East India Company. Yet still under the command of their western gods, suppressing the local population.
Thank you! I didn’t want to answer this lol.
Not gonna lie, the finest soldiers in todays Islamic world is the probably the Turkish army and Hezbollah.
 
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جس جس ملک نے پاکستانی فوج جیسی فوج پال لی اسکو بیرونی دشمنوں کی ٹینشن ختم
 
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Thank you! I didn’t want to answer this lol.
Not gonna lie, the finest soldiers in todays Islamic world is the probably the Turkish army and Hezbollah.
Wow, wouldn’t be surprised if this still goes on. No matter this corrupt sleazy force is beghairet beyond doubt. They gave up easily in 1971 instead of fanatically fighting the Indians to death. That should tell you something.
 
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It will take a long time to tame this Frankenstein's monster, provided IK lives, wins and we even get started.

Off topic, If you don't mind sharing, how old are you?
Let’s just say, younger than 20.
Never lose hope, now is the time to fight! Fight with what ever means you can, use words, use money, use strength... but now is not the time to give up! Let's fight at least before accepting defeat. Right now IK is putting up such a marvelous fight, why should we give up just yet?

I guess so. But it’s more of a matter of my own resolve fading. It’s annoying that the fight within me faded after essentially repeating the same argument to people on the PDF, after a year of doing so, but I’m sure that it’ll return.

Please Ignore my stupid ideas of separatism that I came up with today, I’m pretty burnt out and need to re-calibrate my own ideals to properly make the best of the situation rather than acting upon emotion
 
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Let’s just say, younger than 20.
I had an idea. Because we've all had that fire at that age. Only for it to get stamped out.

I guess so. But it’s more of a matter of my own resolve fading. It’s annoying that the fight within me faded after essentially repeating the same argument to people on the PDF, after a year of doing so, but I’m sure that it’ll return.

Please Ignore my stupid ideas of separatism that I came up with today, I’m pretty burnt out and need to re-calibrate my own ideals to properly make the best of the situation rather than acting upon emotion
I would strongly suggest to take some time off and put time in productive pursuits. Of course, help with the cause as much as you want. Being overseas Pakistani, you are in a unique position to help. Shayan Ali is just 17, would you believe it? And that lil nigg is making Ganja regret buying those swanky Avenfield apartments. Itna zaleel mujhe koi kare to me pesay wapis kr deta. Joi nhi chori kiye, wo bhi wapis kr deta. :lol:
 
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Well ISI is hashasheens like gang for sure

Hashashins were far better and amazingly killed some very high Rankin Crusaders, Turks and Mongols. ISI couldn't even kill a senior TTP commander without US drones.

Thank you! I didn’t want to answer this lol.
Not gonna lie, the finest soldiers in todays Islamic world is the probably the Turkish army and Hezbollah.

No idea about Turkish Soldiers because they've been fighting some western wars as well. Hezbollah fighters showed great tactics and resilience against Israelis being heavily outnumbered yet victorious.
 
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I had an idea. Because we've all had that fire at that age. Only for it to get stamped out.
I’ve seen the spark with a lot of people my age, too
I would strongly suggest to take some time off and put time in productive pursuits. Of course, help with the cause as much as you want. Being overseas Pakistani, you are in a unique position to help.
Definitely. I think I’ve forgotten that the basis of service to the people lies within god given duty. If I give up now and abandon the people, I will have forsake not only the people, but Allah’s will as well.
In the meantime, I think I need a break
Shayan Ali is just 17, would you believe it? And that lil nigg is making Ganja regret buying those swanky Avenfield apartments. Itna zaleel mujhe koi kare to me pesay wapis kr deta. Joi nhi chori kiye, wo bhi wapis kr deta. :lol:
I would’ve attended his March if I had known about it. That guy is an absolute legend. I’ll definitely be keeping my eye open for any potential successes that he may have.
 
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Hashashins were far better and amazingly killed some very high Rankin Crusaders, Turks and Mongols. ISI couldn't even kill a senior TTP commander without US drones.



No idea about Turkish Soldiers because they've been fighting some western wars as well. Hezbollah fighters showed great tactics and resilience against Israelis being heavily outnumbered yet victorious.
hashasheen ki trah pi ke mast to rehty hain na
 
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LOOOOOOOOLLL

NO.

Pakistan Army is not a contemporary of Janisaries. Judging you on your comparison, you've read very less about Janisaries.

They were subordinates of the Sultan and maintained dominance under the Military wing. No matter what, they remained loyal to the Sultan, won them a lot of battles like no one else, fought till the end.

And here we've the Pakistan Army. Got some Kashmir in 1948 with the help of Tribals who ended up looting/raping Kashmiris themselves.

Were about to lose Lahore in 65 after a TACTICALLY POOR OPERATION GIBRALTAR WHERE SSG OPERATIVES WERE SLAUGHTERED AND MASSACRED BY THE INDIAN ARMY AND LOCAL KASHMIRIS. While the operation was tactically opposed by Col Mahdi of SSG.

Badly lost 1971 yet again due to poor planning. Not only that, but wrecked up the Bengali civilians pretty bad.

Lost Siachaen
Lost Kargil

Moral corruption:

Officers were literally swapping wives or presenting their wives to higher-ups for promotions during 1950s-1970s, god knows till when. As mentioned in Humood Ur Rehman Commission.

Most of the higher-ups are Sharabis but not only them, but ISSB is designed to select psycho bullies who start messing around pretty young.

You know what are they? They're the contemporaries of East India Company. Yet still under the command of their western gods, suppressing the local population.
I agree with Wife swapping, that is still going on in the army.. Your points are very valid.
 
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