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Who was behind the fall of the OTTOMAN Empire?

RAPTOR said:
But even today....if the Moslem countries would combine and form an Islamic version of the EU....it would be an economic , military superpower! But alas the usual Jew/ Christian conspirators keep it divided and on its knees...only to be humiliated.
What is stopping the muslim world from forming an EU like bloc?...Sectarian differences is one reason that comes to mind.
According to the prophecy of the bible the a comforter and a messiah will come and defeat the fourth beast who had enslaved the followers of Elah (Allah) and that will be the chosen messiah and he will establish the kingdom of god on earth.
Off topic.
Elah being referred to has many meaning according to ancient Hebrew, and not only Allah or God. The Book of Revelations is not so simple to understand in the literal sense.
 
sword9 said:
What is stopping the muslim world from forming an EU like bloc?...Sectarian differences is one reason that comes to mind.

Off topic.
Elah being referred to has many meaning according to ancient Hebrew, and not only Allah or God. The Book of Revelations is not so simple to understand in the literal sense.

You claim things that are way beyond your scope of knowledge and comprehension.Are you an expert in ancient Hebrew or Aramaic? A biblical scholar? Didnt think so..

oh and by the way,its not "Elah" but "Eloh" meaning Saviour in Aramaic.
 
RAPTOR said:
You claim things that are way beyond your scope of knowledge and comprehension.Are you an expert in ancient Hebrew or Aramaic? A biblical scholar? Didnt think so..

oh and by the way,its not "Elah" but "Eloh" meaning Saviour in Aramaic.
Mr. Gennyass wear your glasses and re-read InsightDubai's post:
According to the prophecy of the bible the a comforter and a messiah will come and defeat the fourth beast who had enslaved the followers of Elah (Allah) and that will be the chosen messiah and he will establish the kingdom of god on earth.
He quoted from the "Book of Revelations" by John. Is this passage also found in the Koran?
 
Calm down people. 'Raptor', consider this as a special caution for you!
 
Some say Mullah, some say the King and some(including me) say Jews but the real reason is some thing different. These are all facts to consider the King, Jews etc but the point remains that nothing happens without Allah's permission. The fall of the Ottoman Empire was because of the muslims who lost intensity of love for Allah. They (and we) stoped looking beyond what we could see from our eyes. The thing Allah told us through Quran and Hadith which the creator himself knew that we humans cant think on our own. For example the creation of universe cannot be described by a poor fragile creatures like we are but the one who is the creator.
What I am trying to say is that if we have faith in our God no conspiracy can harm us no king or Khalipha has the power of doing other than what he is suppose to do( like what Hazrat Umer rz did but Yazid didn't) and no Mullah can do bad things. Its not that every Mullah is suppose to know about Bunker Busters and Stealth etc. The ordinary muslims are suppose to know these things. Mullah's role is to teach us Islam, tell us things we usually dont know just like a doctor who is to examine us and suggest some medicine. If we go on Islam the way we are suppose to do the Mullah's role is limited infact it is already limited because the one we are calling Mullah is not acctually Mullah but a person with beard on his face. The real Mullah is the Aalim also called Maulana or Maulvi. Let me tell you that it takes about nine years to complete the course of Aalim in our country and naming those Aalims as fools is something foolish itself.
If people think that Islamic system gives power to Mullahs only, it is wrong, infact it gives power to ordinary Muslims. Mullah's were not behind the fall of Ottoman Empire but the People were. Mainly the army which was having a lot of hand in changing the Khilaphat and bringing up the person of there choice. These kind of politics destroyed muslims once and they are still destroying muslims. Then comes the conspiracy by Jews and other non-muslims (I am consdering every non-muslims as an enemy because Allah told us that no non-muslim can be a friend of muslim).
 
Actually there were many factors that led to the downfall of Ottoman Empire.

The Zoinists being responsible for the downfall of Ottoman Empire is just rubbish and made-up idea.

But Jews (after the downfall of Ottoman Empire) actually thought that it was an ideal time for them to start "Israeli creation movement".

For centuries Jews believed that they will once again establish the state of Israel. (after it was destroyed by the Ancient Roman Empire over 1900 years ago)

The fall of Ottoman Empire gave Jews the hope they were looking for to pave way for creation of Jewish State but they were not responsible for the fall of Ottoman Empire.

The holocaust event actually was the ultimate deciding factor for creation of Israel.

The downfall of Ottoman Empire:

The Ottoman Empire started crumbling during the period of colonization.

The industrial revolution in Europe changed it all. Europeans were better equipped then Ottomans since 17th century and Ottomans actually started losing battles on various fronts against Russians and Europeans since 18th century.

Thus "setback in education and technology" was a loosely responsible reason.

Then came WW-I and Ottomans sided with Germans. This proved to be the final nail in the coffin of Ottoman Empire.

Kamal Attaturk ousted the Ottoman leader in Turkey (the seat of power of Ottoman Empire) to save turkey from attack by western allies and the entire remaining geographical region split up with local princes or leaders taking control.

Plus! there were many minor reasons involved.

InsightDubai said:
the romans were defeated by the muslims, lol not jews, the jews were allies of the romans and were left to rules jerusalem.
They were byzantians and not the ancient Romans.

The Ancient Roman Empire crumbled during 400 AD.

The eastern part of fallen Roman Empire became Byzantine and muslims actually fought against them in Syria and Egypt.

But you are right that ancient Jewish State was indeed destroyed by Ancient Romans after the incident of Jesus Christ.
 
Good that you are explaining to the other members who are mostly Moslems. They require your teaching. Preferably a Mullah should give the interpretation, but I am not aware if you are one or not and if you are, my apolgies for transcending into your realm!

Not a Mullah, but rather an Alim who has preferably an official degree in islamic studies, for example Dr. Zakir Naik. However, for telling you basic abcds in islam one doesn't require to go that much high. I assume even a one knowledgeable kid can take on you and remove that sterotype that you seem to have, but for some like blain stated love to live in a denial, and no matter how much you correct them, they will come back to hunt.
 
It is easier to describe decline than to explain it. Some developments which the Ottoman Empire did not take part in gave Europe its relative superiority.

[ 1 ] Its 16th-10th c. commercial expansion overseas enriched Western Europe to the detriment of the Ottomans.

[ 2 ] The West improved agricultural methods while technology and industry advanced rapidly, all tied to the new scientific experimentation and rationalist attitudes stemming from the Renaissance and Reformation and culminating in the Enlightenment; only weak echoes of these events reached the East before 1800.

[ 3 ] Strong, centralized, national monarchies or bureaucratic empires appeared not only in Western Europe but also along the Ottoman frontiers in Central and Eastern Europe just when centrifugal forces were weakening the previously centralized Ottoman bureaucratic empire.

[ 4 ] A prosperous,enterprising bourgeoisie on the Western model failed to appear in the Ottoman Empire to back up the ruler; the wealthy bourgeoisie which did exist was small and composed largely of either non-Muslim merchants and bankers, who were not acceptable as the sultan’s allies, or bureaucrats, who were a part of the "establishment ” anxious to protect their own interests and often resisting change.

The Ottomans were more conscious of the dislocations in their own traditional system:

[ 1 ] Leadership : 17 sultans after Suleyman ( from1566 to 1789) were, with few exceptions, men of little ability, training, or experience, and some were incompetent, even mentally defective; their average rule of 13 years was less than half that of the first 10 sultans. This was no accident! Mehmed III died in 1605 leaving two minor sons as the only direct male survivors. The elder, Ahmet I, spared the life of his brother, Mustafa, but kept him secluded in a special apartment in the harem of Topkapi Palace. The Sitva Torok treaty with Austria (1606) should have been a wake-up call for the Ottomans. It was a negotiated compromise rather than a grant of peace dictated by the sultan; in it, the Hapsburg monarch finally was recognized as the sultan’s peer, as " Emperor” (Padishah rather than simply King of Vienna.” Mustafa I’s accession in 1617 marked the end of ”succession by military contest and the practice of royal ” fratricide,” replaced by confinement of princes in the palace and succession by the eldest male of the imperial family. Not only were most inexperienced and incompetent, many were minors under the influence of the Queen Mother (Valide Sultan) and harem favorites, giving rise to palace cliques and intrigue. For several decades in the first half of the17.th century, women of the palace exercised such influence that the period is called " The Sultanate of the Women "

[ 2 ] Bribery, purchase of office, favoritism, nepotism : Promotion by merit, long the hallmark of Ottoman administration, became less common. Corruption spread to the provinces where an official would buy his office, then squeeze more taxes from the populace to reimburse himself. There were frequent shifts in judicial as well as civil officials, with justice also sometimes for sale. In the mid-to-late 17th c., the great Koprulu family of viziers attempted to root out corruption and improve administrative and military efficiency. They were temporarily successful in arresting " decline " through traditional reforms, and in 1663 Ottoman forces besieged Vienna for the second time. But in the 17th c., the Ottomans were confronted by an extended arc of opponents, Venice, Austria, Poland, Russia, and Iran, often obliged to confront several at once. In 1699, after defeat by a coalition of all Central and East European powers, the Ottomans accepted mediation, negotiated peace, and, by the Treaty of Karlowitz, for the first time gave up territories in the Balkans. The shrinking of Ottoman frontiers had begun.

[ 3 ] Military : The devshirme was abandoned ( just when is uncertain ); sons of janissaries were admitted to the corps, then other Muslims; and imperial slavery became a legal fiction.” Provincial janissaries sometimes acted as semi-autonomous local rulers, while in Istanbul they become a disruptive force, often in collaboration with artisans / craftsmen and students. The provincial cavalry army was made obsolete by musket-armed European troops, requiring the Ottomans to increase their standing infantry and equip them with firearms. This required money. The military fief system was all but abandoned and replaced by tax-farming. The heavy tax burden was responsible in part for revolts in Anatolia, abandonment of farm lands, and depopulation of villages; thus the empire experienced a decline in tax revenues despite higher taxes.

[ 4 ] Economics : The Ottoman Empire suffered from severe inflation, as did all of Europe, as New World silver flooded in. This, together with debased coinage, fueled corruption. By the 17th c., Europeans and consolidated their control of new sea trade routes, by-passing the Middle East and diminishing the transit trade through Ottoman lands. Asian spices were shipped directly to Europe, and wars with Iran interrupted the silk trade. European manufactured goods flowed in, undercutting local handicraft products and enriching Levantine merchants. The Ottoman Empire’s unfavorable trade balance resulted in an outflow of gold, while European states demanded more favorable trade treaties ( ”Capitulations" ) and were guilty of blatantly abusing them.

[ 5 ] Intellectual decline--Selim and Suleyman’s 16th c. victory over Safavid Shi’ism so consolidated Sunni orthodoxy that Muslims in the Empire were not forced to engage in intellectually challenging and stimulating conflict as Catholics and Protestants were in Europe. Muslim scholars became intellectually conservative and resistant to new ideas; convinced of the superiority of Muslim / Ottoman civilization, they were seemingly oblivious to the advances being made in the infidel West. Meanwhile, the Ottoman religious establishment gradually became infiltrated by the Sufi orders, producing a new sort of symbiosis which gave greater strength to conservative religious” elements.
In the18th c. more wars and losses resulted in another attempt at reforms.

The Tulip Period ( 1718-30 ) marks the first conscious borrowing of European culture and art. During the mid-century interlude of peace on the European frontiers, Ottoman political authority was further diffused. Provincial notables and governors barely heeded orders from Istanbul. Levantines and Phanariot Greeks enjoyed enormous prosperity and influence. The Muslim religious elite reached the apex of their power. In the last quarter of the century, Catherine the Great resumed Russian expansion southward; her ” Greek Scheme " aimed to put her grandson, Constantine, on the throne of a neo-Byzantine Empire with its capital at Constantinople. Her first war ended in the Treaty of Kuchuk Kaynarca (1774) by which the Ottomans gave up the Crimea, the first time they had lost territory inhabited primarily by Muslims. In 1789, during the second war with Catherine, Selim lll became sultan and initiated a reform program called the New Order, (Nizam-i Cedid) with emphasis on military and fiscal reform. But Selim’s failure to prevent Napoleon’s invasion of the rich Ottoman province of Egypt in 1798 revealed to Europeans as never before that the balance of power had now shifted decidedly in their favor.

The Imperial reforms begun by Selim III were taken up again in the early decades of the 19th.c. by Sultan Mahmud II. They aimed at curbing provincial autonomy and achieving political centralization and modernization through Western-style military, administrative, and fiscal reforms. But European intervention in the Greek struggle for independence signaled the beginning of the modern " Eastern Question ” (Simply put : Who would divide the spoils when the Ottoman Empire collapsed ? ). To counter this, the Tanzimat period (1839-76) saw reforms center around a new concept of justice (adalet): equality before the law for all Ottoman subjects, Muslim and non- Muslim alike. This concept was fundamental to the prevalent ideology of the Tanzimat, Ottomanism ( patriotism but not yet nationalism). In the 1850s-60s, intellectuals known as the New Ottomans” engaged in a liberal critique of Tanzimat policies with emphasis on fatherland (vatan), freedom (hurriget), and constitutionalism. The Tanzimat reforms culminated in the constitution and parliament of 1876, but the 1877-78 war with Russia and the Treaty of Berlin, by which most of the Ottoman lands in Europe were lost and the European powers laid claim to spheres of influence in the Middle East, allowed Sultan Abdulhamid II to bring an end to " liberalism” and proceed with reforms under an autocratic- regime. By the 1880s Germany under Kaiser Wilhelrn had replaced France and Great Britain as friend and military advisor of the Ottoman Empire, and new ideologies were challenging Ottomanism. Abdulhamid embraced Pan-Islamism; his opponents, known collectively as Young Turks, were drawn to a secular Ottoman pseudo-nationalism and some to Pan-Turkism.
The Hamidian despotism was ended by the Young Turk Revolution(1908-09) and replaced by constitutional, parliamentary government under the Young Turk Committee of Union and Progress. Their policies reflected a growing sense of Turkish nationalism. But in the five years preceding World War I, two Balkan wars and a war with Italy, which had invaded Libya, brought the military element of the Young Turk movement to the fore and resulted in the domination of the Istanbul political scene by the Young Turk Triumverate ( Enver, Talat, and Jemal Pashas) .

Under their leadership, the Ottomans entered World War I on the side of Germany. The victors dictated the peace to end all peace at Paris in 1919. With even the heartlands of the Empire partitioned and Istanbul occupied by the victorious allies, the Turks of Anatolia under the leadership of Mustafa Kemal (Ataturk) rejected the terms of the dictated Treaty of Sevres. Again they took up arms, fought successfully for their independence, and --- bringing to an end the 600 + year-old Ottoman Empire –- negotiated the Treaty of Lausanne in 1923 which granted international recognition to the boundaries of the new Republic of Turkey
 
Civilizations rise and fall. The Chinese, the Egyptian, the Greek, the Roman and the mysterious empires of South America were once all great and accomplished. All faded away into history. Look at the great religions that have passed into history, their gods, priests and worshippers all but forgotten, buried in the dust of time. If it were possible to go back to the peaks of these civilizations in a time machine and question the people, I am sure that they would say that they expected things to stay as they were or improve even further. They would say that their god(s) favoured them above all others because they were the one true religion. They could not imagine going into a decline, much less disappearing from the face of the earth, only to have their ruined buildings discovered after hundreds or thousands of years later. The Ottoman empire was just a casualty of history. Events created it, and other events undid it. The world changes very slowly and man is ephemeral.
 
"The point at issue is that Turkey has been destroyed and shall never rise again, since we have destroyed her spiritual power: the Khilafah and Islam."

(British Foreign secretary, Lord Curzon announced in the House of Commons)



Never has a day been so unceremoniously ignored in history yet has had such tremendous impact on global politics, on history and on a nation. The day when miseries started to rain on the Ummah, the day when the shield against all evils was removed, the day the Muslim Ummah from being the torch bearer of humanity fell in to the deep pit of humiliation, the day Islam was rooted out as a way of life, the day the Muslims were rendered helpless, unarmed and unprotected, the day Muslims lost their state, the blackest day in the1400 year history of Islam, the day Khilafah was destroyed.



On the night of 28th Rajab-13th hijri, the night after which the Muslim Ummah has seen no dawn, Mustafa Kamal, the traitor, gave the following orders to the governor of Istanbul. "The Caliph Abdul Majid should leave Turkey after tomorrow dawn". The orders were carried out with the help of the army and police; the caliph was forced to climb a car and was taken to the border towards Switzerland. Following announcement was made on the morning of 28th Rajab, 1342 AH.



"The Greater National Assembly had approved the abolishment of the Caliphate and the separation of Deen from the State".



For the Ummah, it was not just the separation of the Deen from the State, it was the separation from glory, might, power, dignity and honor. The abolishment of the Caliphate was the destruction of Islam and of the Muslim Ummah. As one Hindu writer put it in Times on 7 th March 1924, four days after the abolishment of the caliphate:



"Turkey is now reduced from being a world-influence as the head of Islam to the insignificance of a Balkan State"



Alas! From a world leader to an insignificant subordinate state, but the worst awaited. The situation of the Ummah after the destruction of the Khilafah was like the orphan infant child whose mother had died, leaving him alone to survive in the cruel world. And as if the Kuffar were waiting for this moment, like vultures and hyenas they attacked the Ummah plucking at her flesh, fighting each other over it.



The end of Khilafah meant the absence of the cohesive force which kept the Muslims together and the removal of Islam from their lives. Hence the mighty state was divided in to small state lets, each with its own constitution and national anthem. The Islamic systems were replaced by that of the West and the affairs of the Muslims started to be governed and organized by secular governmental structures.



Without a central government to represent the Muslims, and to voice and protect their concerns, the Ummah became vulnerable to the military, cultural, economic, social and political attacks from the West.



The deadliest and the gravest of all blows which these series of attacks brought for the Ummah was the creation of the Jewish State on the blessed land of Palestine, the third most holiest place for the Muslims.



As if the thorn of Israel in the heart of the Muslims was not enough, the British dealt another severe blow by putting the dagger of Kashmir through the body of the Ummah. This was of course after she had assisted the genocide of millions of Muslim men and women in the name of partition.



Despair, it seemed had only started. Not in her wildest dreams had the Ummah imagined the burning of the sacred mosque on the blessed land Jerusalem.



Like fast growing wild weeds in a field without a caretaker, the Ummah found, traitors springing up, moving with the wind, blowing from the West. Without the Khalifah and the Islamic State, the West had succeeded in placing her agents as rulers over the Muslim world.



With Muslim rulers being the guardians of Western interests, what followed brought more bloodshed and oppression. The Arab-Israel war, the partition of Bangladesh, the invasion of Afghanistan by the Soviets, the Iraq-Iran war, the first gulf war, the Bosnian war, genocide of Chechnya, creation of East Timor, the occupation of Afghanistan, the occupation of Iraq, the massacre in Sudan, the killing in Somalia. Not a place on the globe remains which is inhabited by Muslims and is not stained by Muslim blood.



The onslaught against the Ummah was not limited to military invasions and occupations. The attacks on the honor and dignity of the Muslims were equally vicious. In Abu Ghuraib Muslim men and women were sexually abused and morally humiliated. One picture showed an American soldier urinating on the face of a Muslim prisoner. Crushing of limbs, raping women with broken bottles, cutting off of body organs, tearing open the stomachs of pregnant women, boiling alive, putting through mince meat machines and acid baths are but a few ways employed by the Kuffar to humiliate and torture the sons and daughters of this great Ummah.



Even this was not enough. The West opened another front for the Muslims. She bombarded the Ummah with her beliefs, morals and values using force to impose her ideas in the Muslim world. This was backed by political actions to suppress the Muslim wherever necessary. Anti-terror laws, meddling into the education and political systems of Muslim countries and support for brutal dictators are to name just a few.



To the horror of the Ummah the war on Islam had yet another dimension. With a strong determination to wipe out Islam from the face of the earth, the West attacked the creed of the Muslims. Muslim Holy scripture, the glorious Quran was desecrated and the Prophet of Islam, the guide and leader of humanity, Muhammad (saw) was openly insulted.



With a man power of 1.5 billion, a standing army of over 7 million, with control over 70% of oil resources, with access to most fertile agricultural lands, with a history of 1300 years of global dominance the Ummah today stands in absolute darkness with every part of her body bleeding.



It is only the light of Khilafah and the power of Islam which can revive her. What the Ummah needs is a shield, a protector and a guardian. What the Ummah needs is the Khalifah. The Prophet Muhammad (saw) said:



"The Imam is a shield, you fight from behind him and are protected by him".



28th Rajab approaches us once again. It will mark 85 years of the destruction of the Khilafah. Let us remember it as a day when our miseries started. Let us remember it as a day when this great nation left its role as being the leader of the world. Let us remember it as a day when we left Islam and entered in to darkness.



28th Rajab approaches us again. It will mark 85 years of the destruction of the Khilafah. Let it be the day when we vow to end our miseries. Let it be a day when we vow to be the leaders of the world again. Let it be the day when we light a torch and kill the darkness. Let it be the day when we start striving to bring back the Islamic Khilafah. Let us remember this day and make it a day of resolve and commitment; commitment to take the Ummah out of the disgrace that had befallen her on 28th Rajab!
 
To answer the thread, the Ottoman empire was doomed to fall like any other empire in history ... the question should be why did it take so long. and my answer would be the British intrest to safeguard the Sublime Porte and its crescent against the Russian bear rob it of its early demise

There is a huge relation between formation of israel and downfall of ottoman empire.it was their planning to devide them and rule them.thats exactly what is happening. :evil:

I doubt it sense the end of Great War ended the Habsburg, Hohenzelloren and Romanov empires, as well. Though, the rise of Bolshevism in Russia could be related to Leninist-Marxist, and ultimately the Jews .. but the connection stops there.

Anyways .. I sincerly doubt there is a relation between the demise of the Ottomans and the creation of Israel ...

The Caliphate can be alive today in spirit if not in form if muslim nation heads got together and coperated peacefully in science, trade, military, rather than always dreaming for rule of the entire muslim world from one city.

The power of Caliphate still exists today in the Turkish National Assembley. The power of the Caliphate were transferred to it by a decree in the 20s, and can only be legally be claimed from the Turkish National Assembley.
 

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