Who on earth said PAF will get only single engine fighters?

[rockstarIN]

PAF f-16 can be do the role of a duel engined fighter (range) for long range strike role. after all, they are not going to bomb Kalaikunda air base, are they?

The problem is, F-16s should come as escort for the other F-16s which act as a strike package.

 

[Chak Bamu]

Armed Force Future Development Plan 2014 spelled it out way back in mid '00s.

Single engine fighters are great for us. They cost less to buy / build and operate. They have a quick turn around time and with fewer aircraft we can generate higher number of sorties. For a defensive posture they do very well.

Twin-engine beasts would be good for defending our Seas though.

 

[Gentelman]

PAF at present don't need any twin engine and saying that J-10B is just equilant to JFT is foolishness……
J-10 radar is far more capable and it has 11 hardpoints with much more range and altitude to operate but PAF should prefer something else than J-10s
yeah PAF will induce dual engine when stealth would be induced……
at present PAF don't have any plans of having bomber squad so when as fighters jets(single engine) having same capabilities are available then why go for dual??
PAF always prefer same platforms like it stuck with Mairages then with F-16s then with Migs and JFT Sooo if dual is expected it would be stealth and further inductions of other jets rather than JFT like J-10Cs or F-16s will occur only if Indians go for Rafael……
at present PAF don't have funds for inductions for high tech soo it would be filled by MLUs F-16s ……

 

[SQ8]

"
I see no reason why PAF could not operate the J-11b if we agree to Chinese soft loans, which they will gladly give.
"

This is being too confident. You guys assume that Chinas will extend loans (soft, hard or erected) to you like candies. This becomes basis of whole dream. Suggest test this hypotehsis before building air castle.

They are prepared to do it tomorrow evening if needed. It Pakistan that is denying it... there is no money to pay off the interest on the existing loans.... so there will be a very embarrassing situation asking China to write off loans.

 

[Dazzler]

Well congratulations for burying the Urban legend once it for all on soft Chinese loans !!!

PS. Begging rights doesn't provide Bragging rights !!!

if you have nothing useful to say please abstain from such useless post, PAF goes with requirement,, like any airforce in the world. Loans or no loans, should be least of your concerns.

 

[SQ8]

The question is simply of the requirement. For all the twin engines fighter nonsense.. the PAF operate a twin engined fighter for over 30 years in the F-6 , then the A-5. Simply put, the advantage that twin engines give in terms of redundancy in exchange for costs is not required by the PAF.

What does the twin engined fighter bring?
1. Safety.. plain and simple.. if one engine goes out, explodes.. there is still one to get you back(although for aircraft with closely spaced engines like the F-15, Rafale, EF, Jaguar that is a moot point if the engines blow up).

The rest, maneuverability , speed depends on the aerodynamics and T/W ratio of the fighter rather than the number of engines.
and twin engines WILL consume more fuel than one. The Fuel fraction for a single engined jet is much higher than any dual engined type...which means they go FURTHER for less gas.

Now, the advantages of a single engine aircraft.

1. Will have a slimmer profile due to there being a single engine, and only one of those systems (fuel, electrical etc) for one engine instead of two..

2. Due to 1.. it also will have a smaller RCS, smaller visual footprint

3. In light of 1 and 2 and fuel consumption.. single engined fighters cost MUCH less to operate... and offer more bang for the buck which is what the PAF is looking for.

 

[Tumba]

Adding more $ symbols doesnt make a point valid. How much cost difference is there between single and double engine anyway? probably around 1.5 times. That's pretty affordable! When poor African countries can afford Su-30s, Pakistan with a half a trillion GDP very well can afford to maintain it.

you dont have half a triilion GDP

 

[T90TankGuy]

Adding more $ symbols doesnt make a point valid. How much cost difference is there between single and double engine anyway? probably around 1.5 times. That's pretty affordable! When poor African countries can afford Su-30s, Pakistan with a half a trillion GDP very well can afford to maintain it.

Pakistan does not have a half trillion $ economy. its around 250 billion. at the moment they are going to the IMF to borrow money to pay of the interest on a previous loan , at least do a little research .

 

[Zarvan]

It's time to bury this Urban legend once and for all!

I have been running over old news reports and interviews, but i couldn't find a single source which said 'this & this' air chief said PAF only prefers single engine fighters for 'this & this' reason. I couldn't even find any similar words to find a context of the statement. PAF has already operated twin engine fighters before(J-6). I see no reason why PAF could not operate the J-11b if we agree to Chinese soft loans, which they will gladly give. It makes absolutely no sense going for J-10b which is similar in capabilities to JF-17 and F-16, and add one more type of fighter in the same class!! China is smart and not inducting JF-17 for precisely this reason because it is almost similar to J-10, only slightly less capable.. but some of our country men defy this Chinese logic and think adding J-10b is more preferable than J-11b. This single engine thing is really costing PAF getting small fighters will limited capabilities.

In any case, lets bury this single engine nonsense once and for all, since there are no record of any PAF chief saying that, and even if did the context has changed considerably with new threats staring at PAF's face.

sir pakistan is going for J-10b J-11 will be taken for naval support but for air force we are going for j-10b only issue with us is shortage off money other wise we would have got them by now

 

[Rank]

Single engine kay jahaaz chupooo aur jab India double engine state of the art fighters kareeday tu roona na shuru kardiya karoo... jab kudh lena ka mood nahe hey tu agla jo marzi karay....

 

[Argus Panoptes]

The question is simply of the requirement. For all the twin engines fighter nonsense.. the PAF operate a twin engined fighter for over 30 years in the F-6 , then the A-5. Simply put, the advantage that twin engines give in terms of redundancy in exchange for costs is not required by the PAF.

What does the twin engined fighter bring?
1. Safety.. plain and simple.. if one engine goes out, explodes.. there is still one to get you back(although for aircraft with closely spaced engines like the F-15, Rafale, EF, Jaguar that is a moot point if the engines blow up).

The rest, maneuverability , speed depends on the aerodynamics and T/W ratio of the fighter rather than the number of engines.
and twin engines WILL consume more fuel than one. The Fuel fraction for a single engined jet is much higher than any dual engined type...which means they go FURTHER for less gas.

Now, the advantages of a single engine aircraft.

1. Will have a slimmer profile due to there being a single engine, and only one of those systems (fuel, electrical etc) for one engine instead of two..

2. Due to 1.. it also will have a smaller RCS, smaller visual footprint

3. In light of 1 and 2 and fuel consumption.. single engined fighters cost MUCH less to operate... and offer more bang for the buck which is what the PAF is looking for.

@Oscar just about every service looks for the maximum bang for the buck. At some point paying for good performance and capabilities must also be part of the calculation, right?

 

[SQ8]

@Oscar just about every service looks for the maximum bang for the buck. At some point paying for good performance and capabilities must also be part of the calculation, right?

An addition to that is " meet the requirement".
The B-2 has fantastic performance and capabilities, but it has little to do with the requirements of the PAF.

 

[Manindra]

The question is simply of the requirement. For all the twin engines fighter nonsense.. the PAF operate a twin engined fighter for over 30 years in the F-6 , then the A-5. Simply put, the advantage that twin engines give in terms of redundancy in exchange for costs is not required by the PAF.

What does the twin engined fighter bring?
1. Safety.. plain and simple.. if one engine goes out, explodes.. there is still one to get you back(although for aircraft with closely spaced engines like the F-15, Rafale, EF, Jaguar that is a moot point if the engines blow up).

The rest, maneuverability , speed depends on the aerodynamics and T/W ratio of the fighter rather than the number of engines.
and twin engines WILL consume more fuel than one. The Fuel fraction for a single engined jet is much higher than any dual engined type...which means they go FURTHER for less gas.

Now, the advantages of a single engine aircraft.

1. Will have a slimmer profile due to there being a single engine, and only one of those systems (fuel, electrical etc) for one engine instead of two..

2. Due to 1.. it also will have a smaller RCS, smaller visual footprint

3. In light of 1 and 2 and fuel consumption.. single engined fighters cost MUCH less to operate... and offer more bang for the buck which is what the PAF is looking for.

One point you forgot that twin engine fighter has more range & have high power radar & more payload capability compare to single engine fighter . But single engine fighter are more economical to point defence thats why India operate Mirage 2000-5 and pakistan operate F-16. In my opinion F-16 is good choice for PAF for good defencive purpose which has good radar , combat range and good payload capacity.

 

[Manindra]

This maybe not an good thread for most of members here. But I think this is one of the good threads to debate. Pakistan Air force even if is not inducting 2 jet engines today. But has been getting full training to reserved pilots and some veteran's by simulators and Saudi and Chinese twin jet engines fighters like f 15 and j 11(SU 27). Because PAF is fully sure that in case of conflict will buy / lease fighter jets from specially china and SA. There is no issue of Bucks. since Malaysia, Indonesia and African's are buying sukhoi's without any issue. indeed in small numbers but they do buy them.

From the beginning I have stated many times that we don't need j10's anymore due to jf17 and f16 with equivalent avionics and role. apart from payload they are the same.

It is been claimed by many members here that jf17 is just to replace mirages and f7 aging fleets. it does not in any sense means that they are just new jets with nothing new. its like saying F35 replacing f16 which means f35 radar is 30 to 40% more good. but in reality f35 radar and avionics are 200% better. Replace word needs to be taken very seriously.

JF 17 is very potent aircraft.

My friends Buying twin seat fighter does not bring a huge expense gap b/w single and twin fighter jets there is a quarter only diffference. Which PAF can handle if by 36-40 of them instead of j10.

furthermore I am pretty sure that PAF will lease f15 from SA and j11,j16 or other from china in case of war that is obvious.

I think you are confused between dual seater & dual engine fighter brother

 

[SQ8]

One point you forgot that twin engine fighter has more range & have high power radar & more payload capability compare to single engine fighter . But single engine fighter are more economical to point defence thats why India operate Mirage 2000-5 and pakistan operate F-16. In my opinion F-16 is good choice for PAF for good defencive purpose which has good radar , combat range and good payload capacity.

Thats a simple consequence of larger twin engined aircraft such as the Flanker series or F-15s.....otherwise the F-18 is also twin engined.. yet the F-16 is able to fly much further on its single engine as compared to it. Your assertion fails if you compare the F-35 to the F-18. Even though the F-35 is larger and has a single engine, it flies much further.

You need twin engines to get the larger aircraft off the ground.. and the extra fuel is needed to fuel those two engines.