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Lions do kill elephants
Who is the King of Jungle? Tiger or Lion
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Lions do kill elephants
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I Read this article long back-- Interesting to read -- Informative too.
5.3 More Opinions and Documented Fights
[The following comments have come from ‘Prime’. I will review these and modify the article as necessary. Some others have discussed these with ‘Prime’ in the comments section. I will take their views, too, into consideration.]
1. One account of a tiger ‘defeating’ a lion has apparently been repeated multiple times in
37. Big Game Shooting. Clive Phillipps-Wolley. 1894.
43. Curiosities of Natural History. 1865
63. Monthly chronicle of north-country lore and legend. W. Scott, 1888
64. The Large and Small Game of Bengal and the North-western Provinces of India. John Henry Baldwin. Henry S. King & Co., 1877
65. The Eclectic Magazine of Foreign Literature, Science, and Art. John Holmes Agnew, Harry Houdini Collection (Library of Congress)
72.Chicago Daily Tribune. April 22, 1882
2. Another account apparently repeated three times here in
28.Wild Cats of the World. Mel Sunquist, Fiona Sunquist. The University of Chicago Press. Chicago. 2002.
35.Count Belisarius. Robert Graves. Cassell. 1938.
75.Principles of Animal Mechanics. Rev Samuel Haughton FRS. Longmans, Green & Company. London. 1873.
3. Mabel Stark apparently did not have tigers as heavy as has been claimed. [I have re-verified the4 accuracy of the data. However, I do not have any control over the data and if there are false data from reputed sources, it is hard to find that out]
Alfred Court, the celebrated animal trainer, mentioned, “Tigers are my weakness. Despite my satisfaction in our eleven lion, …… This set me free to return to my seven tigers, who were, and always would be, my consuming passion. I have trained many cats since then, but it is that princely pleiad that I remember most affectionately today.” In the same chapter he said, “….. the trick is less risky with a lion, for tigers in general are more intelligent.” (Ref. 1).
(Comment)
Alfred court mentions nothing of anything that makes you think he favors a tiger over a lion in a fight, he mentions no leverages, what does intelligents in performing tricks suppose to cater in a fight with a lion? This should be dis-reguarded for it is only a stand point of who he admires more not who he favors in a fight…its like a whos your favorite animal poll, not to mention alfred court stated one of his lions was the God of war and that he gave away one of his lions (Caeser) because he started many fights with his tigers….meaning lions are more agressive
[This is not my opinion, but Court’s. I did neither think nor write that Court ‘favored’ the tigers.]
Charles Wilkins’ book has it that, “Every weapon it’s got has to be deadly efficient. Each of its retractable claws, for example, is independently articulated, so that, having grabbed its prey, it can drag it in, as if on a conveyor belt, without having to release its grip. ‘A lion can’t do that, because its claws aren’t fully retractable and because they all work together. If it grabs you through the cage bars and wants to pull you in, it has to release its grip every time it moves farther along your arm or leg, so you have a chance to escape. If a tiger gets even a thread of your clothing, it can have your arm or leg through the slot in a instant.” (Page 9, Ref. 2).
(Comment)
What would that do against a lion who is even stronger in the front quarters, try and hold some one in a standing position who is stronger than you, it will do nothing but pleet your own energy.
[Tigers have stronger forequarters. This has been discussed in the post.]
“The late Alex Kerr (1957), the famous wild-cat trainer of Bertram Mills Circus, was another tiger-supporter” (Page 77, Ref. 19) and said that the tiger is the stronger between the two. [INDRAJIT.WORDPRESS.COM]
(Comment)
Lions are stronger in the front quarters while tigers are stronger in the back limbs, this isint a running or jumping contest, so show the proof that he is talking about them fighting or take it down.
[Tigers have stronger forequarters. This has been discussed in the post.]
Where both animals existed in the same tract the more powerful animal, viz., the tiger, would debar the lion from frequenting forest tracts, and this no doubt was an important contributory cause to the disappearance of the lion from Central India.
(Comment)
No base, to his statement, lions would win out almost every fight in the wild because they are aided by the pride, asiatic lions record pride of group members was a pride that consist of 32 lions, a tiger would commit suicide if he ventured near a lions pride of average-ing 8-12 lions, not to mention one lion has the only record of winning an ocaison in the wild, so a asiatic lion is just as willing and game as a bengal, let alone it would be almost impossible for a tiger to take on multiple lions in the wild and drive them away… when you know that poaching and exssive hunting was the cause of lions declining faster than tigers in asia, simply because they live in the open, while tigers remain hidden…a hunter can rid a group of lions in one crack because they live in prides…be realistic.
[First, Asiatic lions form smaller prides. Second, this is not my opinion.]
Rev Haughton, a zoologist, was of the opinion that tigers are far superior to lions in strength and will kill the lions in fights (Page 392 Ref 75 and Page 495 Ref 76)
(Comment)
Ahh, the person who thinks that tigers are longer than lions by 10 feet, and has ridculous claims of strength and who even quotes martial and edmonds mengeries accident (possiblely novel) that guy? If you insist in using statements of 18 foot tigers, than whats stoping people from saying lions can kill 10,000 tigers in one fight? Its bull shit and should be taken off asap, if you don’t… then we’ll all know you rely on anything that favors the tiger even fiction.
[Again, this is not my opinion.]
Roman Proske had trained both lions and tigers but had always been more fascinated by the tigers. On a similar note to that of Mabel Stark, he mentions about tigers, “they were, and they remain, to me the most inscrutable, the most dangerous, the most beautiful and the most fascinating of all wild animals (Page 173, Ref. 54). …….. Here is nature’s perfect creation for death and destruction. The lion, in comparison, is a great bluffer” (Page 174, Ref. 54).
(Comment)
What is this, more people who just are stating they like tigers? Is this some type of poll where who ever likes a tiger…will mean that a tiger will win in a fight with a lion…lol and that statement would show you are cherry picking, Roman proske stated that when female lions or tigresses go into estrus, not even the tiger is as agressive and dangerous as the male lion.
[This is an opinion from an expert. Nowhere has it been used to mean that a tiger would ‘defeat’ a lion]
4. (A list of lion ‘victories’ has been mentioned. All of the relevant accounts from that list has been mentioned in this post already)
5. Apparently, quotes from fictional works have been used. I will review and remove them if necessary.
[The following are taken from http://www.freewebs.com/jackjacksonj/index.htm. I have not reviewed these yet]
5.3 More Opinions and Documented Fights
[The following comments have come from ‘Prime’. I will review these and modify the article as necessary. Some others have discussed these with ‘Prime’ in the comments section. I will take their views, too, into consideration.]
1. One account of a tiger ‘defeating’ a lion has apparently been repeated multiple times in
37. Big Game Shooting. Clive Phillipps-Wolley. 1894.
43. Curiosities of Natural History. 1865
63. Monthly chronicle of north-country lore and legend. W. Scott, 1888
64. The Large and Small Game of Bengal and the North-western Provinces of India. John Henry Baldwin. Henry S. King & Co., 1877
65. The Eclectic Magazine of Foreign Literature, Science, and Art. John Holmes Agnew, Harry Houdini Collection (Library of Congress)
72.Chicago Daily Tribune. April 22, 1882
2. Another account apparently repeated three times here in
28.Wild Cats of the World. Mel Sunquist, Fiona Sunquist. The University of Chicago Press. Chicago. 2002.
35.Count Belisarius. Robert Graves. Cassell. 1938.
75.Principles of Animal Mechanics. Rev Samuel Haughton FRS. Longmans, Green & Company. London. 1873.
3. Mabel Stark apparently did not have tigers as heavy as has been claimed. [I have re-verified the4 accuracy of the data. However, I do not have any control over the data and if there are false data from reputed sources, it is hard to find that out]
Alfred Court, the celebrated animal trainer, mentioned, “Tigers are my weakness. Despite my satisfaction in our eleven lion, …… This set me free to return to my seven tigers, who were, and always would be, my consuming passion. I have trained many cats since then, but it is that princely pleiad that I remember most affectionately today.” In the same chapter he said, “….. the trick is less risky with a lion, for tigers in general are more intelligent.” (Ref. 1).
(Comment)
Alfred court mentions nothing of anything that makes you think he favors a tiger over a lion in a fight, he mentions no leverages, what does intelligents in performing tricks suppose to cater in a fight with a lion? This should be dis-reguarded for it is only a stand point of who he admires more not who he favors in a fight…its like a whos your favorite animal poll, not to mention alfred court stated one of his lions was the God of war and that he gave away one of his lions (Caeser) because he started many fights with his tigers….meaning lions are more agressive
[This is not my opinion, but Court’s. I did neither think nor write that Court ‘favored’ the tigers.]
Charles Wilkins’ book has it that, “Every weapon it’s got has to be deadly efficient. Each of its retractable claws, for example, is independently articulated, so that, having grabbed its prey, it can drag it in, as if on a conveyor belt, without having to release its grip. ‘A lion can’t do that, because its claws aren’t fully retractable and because they all work together. If it grabs you through the cage bars and wants to pull you in, it has to release its grip every time it moves farther along your arm or leg, so you have a chance to escape. If a tiger gets even a thread of your clothing, it can have your arm or leg through the slot in a instant.” (Page 9, Ref. 2).
(Comment)
What would that do against a lion who is even stronger in the front quarters, try and hold some one in a standing position who is stronger than you, it will do nothing but pleet your own energy.
[Tigers have stronger forequarters. This has been discussed in the post.]
“The late Alex Kerr (1957), the famous wild-cat trainer of Bertram Mills Circus, was another tiger-supporter” (Page 77, Ref. 19) and said that the tiger is the stronger between the two. [INDRAJIT.WORDPRESS.COM]
(Comment)
Lions are stronger in the front quarters while tigers are stronger in the back limbs, this isint a running or jumping contest, so show the proof that he is talking about them fighting or take it down.
[Tigers have stronger forequarters. This has been discussed in the post.]
Where both animals existed in the same tract the more powerful animal, viz., the tiger, would debar the lion from frequenting forest tracts, and this no doubt was an important contributory cause to the disappearance of the lion from Central India.
(Comment)
No base, to his statement, lions would win out almost every fight in the wild because they are aided by the pride, asiatic lions record pride of group members was a pride that consist of 32 lions, a tiger would commit suicide if he ventured near a lions pride of average-ing 8-12 lions, not to mention one lion has the only record of winning an ocaison in the wild, so a asiatic lion is just as willing and game as a bengal, let alone it would be almost impossible for a tiger to take on multiple lions in the wild and drive them away… when you know that poaching and exssive hunting was the cause of lions declining faster than tigers in asia, simply because they live in the open, while tigers remain hidden…a hunter can rid a group of lions in one crack because they live in prides…be realistic.
[First, Asiatic lions form smaller prides. Second, this is not my opinion.]
Rev Haughton, a zoologist, was of the opinion that tigers are far superior to lions in strength and will kill the lions in fights (Page 392 Ref 75 and Page 495 Ref 76)
(Comment)
Ahh, the person who thinks that tigers are longer than lions by 10 feet, and has ridculous claims of strength and who even quotes martial and edmonds mengeries accident (possiblely novel) that guy? If you insist in using statements of 18 foot tigers, than whats stoping people from saying lions can kill 10,000 tigers in one fight? Its bull shit and should be taken off asap, if you don’t… then we’ll all know you rely on anything that favors the tiger even fiction.
[Again, this is not my opinion.]
Roman Proske had trained both lions and tigers but had always been more fascinated by the tigers. On a similar note to that of Mabel Stark, he mentions about tigers, “they were, and they remain, to me the most inscrutable, the most dangerous, the most beautiful and the most fascinating of all wild animals (Page 173, Ref. 54). …….. Here is nature’s perfect creation for death and destruction. The lion, in comparison, is a great bluffer” (Page 174, Ref. 54).
(Comment)
What is this, more people who just are stating they like tigers? Is this some type of poll where who ever likes a tiger…will mean that a tiger will win in a fight with a lion…lol and that statement would show you are cherry picking, Roman proske stated that when female lions or tigresses go into estrus, not even the tiger is as agressive and dangerous as the male lion.
[This is an opinion from an expert. Nowhere has it been used to mean that a tiger would ‘defeat’ a lion]
4. (A list of lion ‘victories’ has been mentioned. All of the relevant accounts from that list has been mentioned in this post already)
5. Apparently, quotes from fictional works have been used. I will review and remove them if necessary.
[The following are taken from http://www.freewebs.com/jackjacksonj/index.htm. I have not reviewed these yet]
- Impulse Archaeology by Eldon Garnet – Social Science – 2005 Page 257
“Fights between lions and tigers have been staged. The tiger always wins” - The Man-Eaters of Eden: Life and Death in Kruger National Park by Robert Frump – Nature – 2006 – 216 pages. Page 91
“Put them together, who wins the fight?” “There is no doubt that in one-on-one combat,” says the African game ranger, “the lion would lose. The Bengal tiger on average weighs about five hundred ……” - Our Animal Friends and Foes by William Atherton Du Puy, Edward William Nelson – Science – 2004 Page 23
“So is the lion of Africa, wrongly styled the king of beasts because another cat, the tiger, is bigger, fifty pounds heavier, and has mastered the lion on many occasions, notably in the days when such creatures were matched in battle in the Roman arenas.” - The Windsor Magazine – Page 20. 1896 Vol 3
“most naturalists are agreed that the average lion is no match for the average tiger, being not only generally smaller but much slower and more clumsy in his movements” - The Journal of Science, and Annals of Astronomy, Biology, Geology … – Page 399
by James Samuelson, William Crookes – Science – 1871
The lecturer added that he was sorry to upset the superstitions of childhood, but the tiger is a much more powerful animal than the lion, and will always beat the latter. The lion had a great mane and looked big” - The Encyclopedia Americana: A Library of Universal Knowledge, Page 622
TIGER, the largest and most admirable of the cats (Felis Tigris). In size and power it surpasses the lion, as it does in beauty, and expresses the highest type of feline structure - Reference: Martial De Spectaculis 21 (NOT VERIFIED YET)
While the trainers of the rhinoceros may have trembled in fear at the fate that awaited them if their animal failed to perform, and another trainer was savaged by his lion,[24] some were more successful. One trainer was noted for his tigress which, though tame enough to lick his hand, had torn a lion to pieces, “a novelty unknown in any times” - The captivity, sufferings, and escape of James Scurry, By James Scurry, William Whiteway. 1824. Page: 130
“In England we have generally been taught to consider the lion as the king of the forest; but to convince me of this, would be a difficult task, as I have frequently been an eye-witness of the strength, fierceness, and agility of the tiger; to which the lion, in these qualities, is much inferior.”
“The stoutest elephant always appeared to me to be very uneasy at the sight of a tiger” Page 139 - Edinburgh New Philosophical Journal, Exhibiting a View of the Progressive Discoveries and Improvements in the Sciences and the Arts – Page 57:
In these games a woman fought with a lion. An elephant, after having trampled to death a bull, went and knelt to the emperor; a royal tiger killed a lion; and wild cattle dragged chariots. - Kesri Singh, Oct. 26, 1955, “Experiments in implanting African lions into Madhya Bharat”—Journal, Bombay Natural History Society, Vol. 53. Page – 466
“I had a few opportunities to arrange duels between the lion and the tiger in a small arena specially prepared for the purpose. In three such experiements on three different occasions I found the same result. It is the lion that always makes the first attack and it is he who gets the worst of it. One or two smacks from the tiger are enough to make the lion retire” - Count Belisarius – Page 51. by Robert Graves -1938 [NOT VERIFIED YET]
“Occasional fights were also staged between lion and tiger (the tiger always won) or wolves and bull (the wolves always won, if in health, by attacking the …” - OF CURIOUS INFORMATION COMPRISING STRANGE HAPPENINGS IN THE LIFE OF MEN AND ANIMALS ODD STATISTICS EXTRAORDINARY PHENOMENA AND OUT OF THE WAY FACTS CONCERNING THE WONDERLANDS OF THE EARTH… – Page 497. by William Shepard Walsh – Encyclopedias and dictionaries – 1913
“Lions and tigers have often been put together to fight but the lion has invariably declined the combat They have accidentally got into each other’s cages and the tiger has killed the lion As regards their comparative courage in the presence of man all the evidence is in favor of the tiger”
“Lastly there were put forth together the two young lusty lions which were bred in the yard and were now grown great These at first began to march proudly towards the bear which the bear perceiving came hastily out of a corner to meet them but both lion and lioness skipped up and down and fearfully fled from the bear and so these like the former lions not willing to endure any fight sought the next way into their den” - The Eclectic Magazine – Page 547. by John Holmes Agnew, Walter Hilliard Bidwell – 1844 [NOT VERIFIED YET]
“Feats of strength are authenticated of the tiger to which the lion can, on evidence, lay no claim ; and of the courage before man, the evidence is all on…” - The Rudiments of Wisdom Encyclopedia by Tim Hunkin “In fights between a tiger and a lion in the wild, the tiger is usually the winner.” [NOT YET VERIFIED]
- Wild Beasts A STUDY OF THE CHARACTERS AND HABITS OF THE ELEPHANT LION LEOPARD PANTHER JAGUAR TIGER PUMA WOLF AND GRIZZLY BEAR
by John Hampden Porter – Animal behavior – 1894 – Page 239
“and in a personal contest the would generally have the advantage over a lion have often been pitted against each other and the general result is well known to be as stated. Gunga who belonged to the King of Oude killed thirty lions and destroyed another after being transferred to the zoological garden in London” - Pets and playfellows; or, Stories about cats and dogs – Page 162. by Elizabeth Surr – 1885
“In fair fight the royal tiger would be certain to come off conqueror, for he is even bolder and stronger than a lion” - The Medical Times and Gazette: A Journal of Medical Science, Literature … Medical – 1850. Page 626 [NOT YET VERIFIED]
“But the Roman emperor was determined to try whether the Bengal tiger could fight the African lion, and Martial records that the tigers and lions fought, and that the tigers always beat the lions.” - Natural history sketches among the carnivora: wild and domesticated – Page 21. by Arthur Nicols – 1885
“Many of the foregoing facts leave no doubt of the greater ferocity and courage of the tiger as compared with the lion There can be equally little question of his greater strength which has been shown by Houghton to be only 69 9 per cent for the fore limb and 65 9 per cent for the hind limb in the lion of the total in the corresponding limb in the tiger The same authority states that five men can easily hold down a lion whereas nine are required to control a tiger To this may be added the testimony of Martial from actual observation of the contests in the arenas where the tigers always killed their antagonists the lions” - Journal of the Bombay Natural History Society – Page 393. by Bombay Natural History Society – Natural history – 1949
“Even a full-grown lion has been known to be no match for a full-grown tiger, the lioness therefore had even less chance, and the poor creature lost her life” - Tales of travelers; or, A view of the world – Page 453. by Tales of travelers – 1838
“The tiger in the East Indies is more powerful than any met with in other parts of the world. It is the undisputed master of the Indian forest. Indeed the royal tiger of Bengal is more than a match for the Asiatic lion. A British officer, who resided many years at Sierra Leone, was repeatedly a spectator of combats between the lion and the tiger, in which the latter was universally victorious.” - The marvels of nature in earth, in sky, and sea – Page 300 by Marvels – 1880
“It would appear from the most correct accounts that the Lion is hardly a match for this formidable creature. The Tiger is as beautiful as dreadful” - The Medical Times and Gazette: A Journal of Medical Science, Literature …
Medical – 1850. Page 626
“The tiger, if in good condition, invariably kills the lion when compelled to fight.” - Curiosities of natural history – Page 234. by Francis Trevelyan Buckland – 1866
“The tiger immediately attacked the Lion, catching him by the throat, and in a few minuteskilled him. This same tiger is, I believe, still being exhibited in Edmonds’s menagerie.” - The Year-book of Facts in Science and Art – Page 284. by John Timbs, Charles W. Vincent, James Mason – Science – 1872
He stated that when the Bengal tiger and African lion fought … the Roman amphitheatres, the tiger killed the lion - Natural history sketches among the carnivora: wild and domesticated – Page 21. by Arthur Nicols – 1885
“Many of the foregoing facts leave no doubt of the greater ferocity and courage of the tiger as compared with the lion. can be equally little question of his greater strength, which has been shown by Houghton to be only 69′9 per cent, for the fore limb, and 65′9 per cent, for the hind limb in the lion” - Economic Zoology: An Introductory Text-book in Zoology, with Special … by Herbert Osborn – Zoology – 1908. Page 457
“The lion, while usually termed the king of beasts, is inferior to the Bengal tiger in strength and endurance, and the title properly belongs to that species” - The Cyclopædia of India and of Eastern and Southern Asia, Commercial … – Page 493 1873
“It is moreover unlikely that an Indian lion could contend wilh the tiger as it is much inferior in size and strength.” - The Illustrated Natural History – Page 162. by John George Wood – Natural history – 1865
“The same Tiger is also celebrated for his battle with a lion, resulting in the death of the latter. The two creatures had been put into one large cage, or box, which was divided by a partition in the centre, so as to separate the two animals. While the attendants were” at their breakfast, the Tiger battered down the too frail barrier, and leaping into the lion’s chamber, entered into fierce combat. Not even the keepers dared interfere to stop the battle, which raged until it was terminated by the slaughter of the lion. The poor beast never had a chance from the beginning, for it was weakened by three years’ captivity, and had lost the swift activity of its wild nature. Its heavy mane defended its head and neck so well, that the Tiger could not inflict any severe injury on those portions, and the fatal lwounds, under which it sank, were all upon the flanks and abdomen,which were torn open by the Tiger’s claws.” - The Dublin university magazine – Page 409. by University magazine, Dublin city, univ – 1877
“He mentions a case in which a tiger in a menagerie burst through the partition of his den into a lion’s, and in a few minutes killed him.” - Administration of Public Education – Page 360. by Stephen J. Knezevich – Education – 1975 – 620 pages
“The answer is that there would be one dead lion. The tiger is much quicker, much more powerful than the lion. But what would happen if ten lions were put in…” - Animal Facts and Feats, A Guinness Record of the Animal Kingdom by Gerald L. Wood, 1972. Page – 78
“Alfred Court, another famous wild-animal trainer, had three enormous Siberian tigers at one time but he was afraid to put them in a mixed group with lions and other animals for fear there would be a massacre. Instead, he used them in a tiger act with four Bengal tigers, but even then he said he was always terrified they would attack their smaller relatives.” - Boston Daily Globe – Jul 19, 1909. TIGER WHIPS LION
Two Fight in Ring at a Coney Island Show. Spectators on Verge of Panic and Several Women Faint. - The Sheboygan Press (Newspaper) – November 3, 1943.
“Q. Can .1 tiger beat a lion in a fight?
A. The tiger is a better fighter than a lion and Dr. Roy Chapman Andrews has stated that there is only one instance on record where a lion beat a tiger This occurred.” - Daily Times News (Newspaper) – February 27, 1974. Tiger’s Top Lion’s
“That the typical tiger is a fiercer fighter than the typical lion is common knowledge. Less widely known is what gives that tiger the advantage. Simple thing. The lion stands on three paws to maul with the fourth. But the tiger balances itself on its hind legs to maul with both front paws simultaneously. Moment by moment, the fighting paws on the tiger’s side generally out-number the fighting paws on the lion’s side by two to one.” - The Newark Advocate – September 13, 1928, When a tiger and a lion fight each other, which wins? J. McC. A. Authorities differ as to the fighting qualities of a tiger and a lion. However, records show that in more instances, when the two animals fight, the tiger is the victor,'
Whitefalcon90
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Lion is born and bred to fight, their stamina, fighting experience and fighting till death will always make them the King.
hunter_hunted
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Hakuna matata , i love em both
Dem!god
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Every dog has a leniage from wolf. But yes phantom had a pet wolf. Once you become leader of the pack you can make them do anything.
But instead of phantom i will go desi with mogli.
Domesticated wolves are not as uncommon as you think.
Its just weird that they cannot bark.
Cheers, Doc
doppelgängerr
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I read Jim Corbett lot and according to him Tigers are the most dangerous cunning animals, Event hunt human just for fun sometimes.
A big male lion do nothing but eats only what lioness hunt and take a big share and went in shade for sleeping do nothing but only protect it's clan from intruding male lions.
A big male lion do nothing but eats only what lioness hunt and take a big share and went in shade for sleeping do nothing but only protect it's clan from intruding male lions.
