Who is the anti-national in India ?

[Chhatrapati]

What about the Hindutvadis who never contributed to India before Independence?

What about them? They never contributed to Indian independence big deal, do you know when Hindutvavadis got stronger? They didn't grew stronger until after the independence. Participating in Independence is not the litmus test, if that was the case, communism must be banned in India, because it wasn't the Hindutva that spied for the British or betrayed the quit India movement. It was communists.

Need I remind you it was the Communists who raised the slogan "Ye Azadi Jhoota Hai " after independence? All these are the definition of anti Nationals.

Please list how India would have looked like if there had been an armed communist revolution in India

If you want a list, then we can list 28 different countries in the subcontinent.

What do you think would have been the differences between India thus and the India led by BJP ?

Instead of that, I'm simply thankful there is no Communist rule in India. BJP congress whatever.

Well, some Indian communists certainly were in awe of the Maoist revolution in China but I think they overdid it.

By being seditious pieces of shit.

 

[Thamizh Puli]

@jamahir - don;t pick up some one thing that you feel is good and jump on that bandwagon. You should really get some exposure to cubans chinese and russians before wafting eloquent about those countries. "No it didn't' is not an argument, just denial. Soviet failed because they just couldn't economically sustain their own infra required to maintain authority and too many in various level of responsibility as a consequence lost their loyalty. I haven't yet, but will take a read of the link you shared soon.

 

[gulli]

Any Indian holding stone to gun to grenade against India is anti national...

 

[jamahir]

By being seditious pieces of shit.

"Sedition" is a word much beloved of right-wingers, ultra-nationalists and colonisers.

Shaheed Bhagat Singh was also called that by the British government. My recent thread on him here.

Instead of that, I'm simply thankful there is no Communist rule in India. BJP congress whatever.

So you don't want things like free education and free healthcare ?

This girl student from Telangana recently committed suicide because her Delhi University scholarship money wasn't coming and her family was in much financial distress. Her case was highlighted by the Left-aligned student body SFI and not by the RSS' student wing ABVP.

If India had free education system and did not have Hindutvadi-derived socio-economic culture this suicide wouldn't have occurred.

If you want a list, then we can list 28 different countries in the subcontinent.

How do you mean ?

Need I remind you it was the Communists who raised the slogan "Ye Azadi Jhoota Hai " after independence? All these are the definition of anti Nationals.

And if you mean that the post-1947 azadi was sachchi, despite inclusion of progressives like Nehru and Ambedkar, why did feudalism injustices occur in Naxalbari two decades after the sachchi independence and why did 300,000+ farmer suicides occur five and six decades after independence ? Don't these injustices move you ?

Any Indian holding stone to gun to grenade against India is anti national...

So this little girl from Kashmir is then an anti-national :

And those BJP leaders and their supporters who carried out marches in Jammu in support of Asifa's rapists / torturers / murderers are supreme patriots, yes ?

 

[Joe Shearer]

Thank you

Moshai
Anything on Hindu banias who want to save HINDUSTAN from sharia lovers?

The nature of the Hindu bania is to work behind the scenes, pulling wires and manipulating economic situations; not much saving there.

You may be referring to Sita Ram Goyal, who is a Hindu bania, and has a formidable body of research to his name. I doubt, however, that you have read even a single one of his books.

There are few Hindu banias working against 'sharia lovers' (that, incidentally, is an extremely silly term; it is the equivalent of dharma lovers). There are many Hindu banias working against those following one religion; why they should be castigated for being 'sharia lovers' is not clear, since even those religion's followers go to Common Law courts, not to sharia courts.

Do you actually think about what you write, or do your fingers have a life and an intelligence of their own?

 

[jamahir]

Sita Ram Goyal

From Wikipedia about him :

In mid-1940s Goel met members of the CSP (Congress Socialist Party), translated writings by Narendra Deva and Jayaprakash Narayan into English, and was offered a position as an editor of a CSP publication. But his first editorial for the weekly was deemed to be pro-communist, and he had to stop writing for the weekly.

Sita Ram Goel had developed a strong Marxist leaning during his student days and was on the verge of joining the Communist Party of India in 1948. The Communist Party, however, was banned in Bengal on the day he planned to officially become its member. He read Karl Marx's Communist Manifesto and Das Kapital, Harold Laski's "Communism", and "came to the conclusion that while Marx stood for a harmonised social system, Sri Aurobindo held the key to a harmonised human personality." Later, books by Aldous Huxley, Victor Kravchenko, and Suzanne Labin ("Stalin's Russia") convinced him to abandon communism.

So, sadly, he was a could-have-been Communist.

Subsequently, he wrote many books critical of communism in Calcutta, and worked for the anti-communist "Society for the Defence of Freedom in Asia"(SDFA).

The name of that organization sounds very like a CIA front.

You should really get some exposure to cubans chinese and russians before wafting eloquent about those countries.

Well, some years ago I had met the State Secretary for my state of one of the public Communist parties and he told me that he had visited Cuba and the Russian city of Sochi ( during USSR times ) and he didn't have anything bad to say about those places.

 

[Chhatrapati]

"Sedition" is a word much beloved of right-wingers, ultra-nationalists and colonisers.

Shaheed Bhagat Singh was also called that by the British government.

It applies to the communists very well.

Also, linking Bhagat Singh every now and then will not change the dark history of Indian communists. Bhagat Singh wanted to end Colonial rule, communists had communism in mind. They acted as stooges of Soviets and Chinese, anyone who further their agenda.

So you don't want things like free education and free healthcare ?

This girl student from Telangana recently committed suicide because her Delhi University scholarship money wasn't coming and her family was in much financial distress. Her case was highlighted by the Left-aligned student body SFI and not by the RSS' student wing ABVP.

If India had free education system and did not have Hindutvadi-derived socio-economic culture this suicide wouldn't have occurred.

I want people to pull themselves out of poverty. Not by taking freebies.

The communist-ruled Kerala have enough suicides in fact ranks among the top in country. SFI should concentrate on places where they have power, and show us what a model state under communists would look like, but the examples we have so far paints a grim picture.

How do you mean ?

Simply the reason why Soviets failed, and China succeeded in keeping the country together. If and when India takes a communist turn will be the day we fail. We are simply incompatible for communist ideas. That's why communist governments are dying one by one in India.

And if you mean that the post-1947 azadi was sachchi, despite inclusion of progressives like Nehru and Ambedkar, why did feudalism injustices occur in Naxalbari two decades after the sachchi independence and why did 300,000+ farmer suicides occur five and six decades after independence ? Don't these injustices move you ?

I don't know if Azadi was Sachchi or bad, because I never lived under British India, so, I can't relate much to what Nehruvian socialism was or British Feudalism did, all my knowledge is from what I read and where we are now. I'd say the job was only 50% done. We are a country of 1,3 billion people we can't go and do door to door problem-solving march. Besides it's not like injustices only happen in India and everywhere else it's milk and honey land.

 

[xyx007]

all congress party members, Dalit, Muslims, Sikh and Christians.

 

[jamahir]

Also, linking Bhagat Singh every now and then will not change the dark history of Indian communists. Bhagat Singh wanted to end Colonial rule, communists had communism in mind. They acted as stooges of Soviets and Chinese, anyone who further their agenda.

*sigh*

So you didn't read my linked thread. Bhagat was a socialist / communist till death. I quote from my thread :

I will conclude with the last moments of Bhagat Singh’s life, as reported by his close associate Manmathnath Gupta, he writes:

“When called upon to mount the scaffold, Bhagat Singh was reading a book by Lenin or on Lenin. He continued his reading and said, ‘Wait a while. A revolutionary is talking to another revolutionary’. Bhagat Singh continued to read. After a few moments, he flung the book towards the ceiling and said, ‘Let us go’.” [Emphasis added]

I want people to pull themselves out of poverty.

And have they done that in 73 years ? Did those 300,000+ farmers who committed suicide between 1995 and 2015, do it ? Did Rohith Vemula do it ? Did the woman migrant laborer who died of hunger in that special train, do it ? I can go on. Read the OP again.

Not by taking freebies.

Why do anti-progressive people constantly use the word "freebies" to dismiss something that actually should exist ? So you wanted that migrant laborer woman to die because she didn't have money ? Why do you worship money ? Do you worship Lakshmi the Hindu goddess of money ? I am not poking fun at Hinduism here but just want to know your take. Do you want people to not desire a system where they don't have to suffer for lack of an artificial thing called money ?

The communist-ruled Kerala have enough suicides in fact ranks among the top in country.

1. Source please.

2. It turns out that in 2015 the central BJP government stopped the NCRB ( National Crime Records Bureau ) from keeping records of farmer suicides from across the country. Why ?

SFI should concentrate on places where they have power, and show us what a model state under communists would look like, but the examples we have so far paints a grim picture.

I agree that communists in post-1947 India have been a divided lot and not really pushed for a leftist vision for all of India. But since 2016 the Indian Left has found fine youth leaders in form of Kanhaiya, Shehla etc. These people should strive for taking a coherent leadership of India in the coming three to five years by first forming a progressive umbrella movement like the PLO in Palestine.

 

[achhu]

The nature of the Hindu bania is to work behind the scenes, pulling wires and manipulating economic situations; not much saving there.

You may be referring to Sita Ram Goyal, who is a Hindu bania, and has a formidable body of research to his name. I doubt, however, that you have read even a single one of his books.

There are few Hindu banias working against 'sharia lovers' (that, incidentally, is an extremely silly term; it is the equivalent of dharma lovers). There are many Hindu banias working against those following one religion; why they should be castigated for being 'sharia lovers' is not clear, since even those religion's followers go to Common Law courts, not to sharia courts.

Do you actually think about what you write, or do your fingers have a life and an intelligence of their own?

Any Hindu even if he is a sharia loving communist is Hindu bania for them.. They will not leave any Hindu bania during jihad .

all congress party members, Dalit, Muslims, Sikh and Christians.

Congress is a jamat i islami party of INDIA .

 

[jamahir]

Any Hindu even if he is a sharia loving communist is Hindu bania for them.. They will not leave any Hindu bania during jihad .


Congress is a jamat i islami party of INDIA .

Like @Joe Shearer asked you, do you actually think about what you write, or do your fingers have a life and an intelligence of their own ?

And you didn't reply to my post# 58.

 

[achhu]

Like @Joe Shearer asked you, do you actually think about what you write, or do your fingers have a life and an intelligence of their own ?

And you didn't reply to my post# 58.

It looks you don't know about Hindu banias likely to be target of ghazwa hind. Even communists like you will not be spared. You are also Hindu bania for them .

 

[jamahir]

It looks you don't know about Hindu banias likely to be target of ghazwa hind.

There will be no Ghazwa e Hind.

Even communists like you will not be spared. You are also Hindu bania for them .

Then I must depend on invoking past communist / socialist progressive activism among Muslims all over the world and explain to them like the below ( from my thread ) how Islam and modern Communism are connected :

During the same period (1920s-30s), another (though lesser known) Islamic scholar in undivided India got smitten by the 1917 Russian revolution and Marxism.

Hafiz Rahman Sihwarwl saw Islam and Marxism sharing five elements in common: (1) prohibition of the accumulation of wealth in the hands of the privileged classes (2) organisation of the economic structure of the state to ensure social welfare (3) equality of opportunity for all human beings (4) priority of collective social interest over individual privilege and (5) prevention of the permanentising of class structure through social revolution.

The motivations for many of these themes he drew from the Qur’an, which he understood as seeking to create an economic order in which the rich pay excessive, though voluntary taxes (Zakat) to minimise differences in living standards.

In the areas that Sihwarwl saw Islam and communism diverge were Islam’s sanction of private ownership within certain limits, and in its refusal to recognise an absolutely classless basis of society.

He suggested that Islam, with its prohibition of the accumulation of wealth, is able to control the class structure through equality of opportunity.

Basically, both Sindhi and Sihwarwl had stumbled upon an Islamic concept of the social democratic welfare state.

 

[fitpOsitive]

The Hindutva right-wing groups ( BJP, RSS etc ) in India and their many supporters in the visual and print media, on Twitter and on various websites are fond of assigning the phrase "anti-national" and so demonizing certain groups who either revolt against the right-wingers or don't fit into the category of Indians as understood by the Hindutvadis. Such groups include Muslims, Dalits, Christians, Socialists / Communists, Liberals, Centrists and recently the Sikh and other farmers protesting in Delhi.

But who is the real anti-national ? Is it the micro-finance company and the mahajan who force the farmer to commit suicide ? Is it the hospital which allowed the actor Ashiesh Roy to die of kidney ailment because he couldn't pay the treatment fees they demanded ? Is it the coaching center in Kota and the college which force students to commit suicide ? Is it the Maneka Gandhi adoring woman in my neighborhood who used to daily prepare special rice for the stray dogs and deliver it to them on her scooter while millions of humans in the country go hungry ? Is it Mukesh Ambani who built an obscene 27-storey for his family of four while millions are homeless or live in slums ? Is it Yogi Adityanath and Sadhvi Pragya who quote fondly from the Manusmriti and want to make it the Constitution ? Is it the Tablighi Jamaatis in IBM-India who instead of agitating for an employee union for the benefit of all employees instead agitate selfishly for prayer place and time within the office ? Is it some self-styled moral police who prevent inter-faith marriages from happening ? Is it the film maker Ashoke Pandit who makes films against the Naxalites without thinking of the unjust feudalism in Naxalbari which led to the Naxal uprising ? Is it various aalims and babas who spread superstition and child sacrifice in the society in 2021 instead of the country having a settlement on Mars given its big industrial base and supposedly talented engineers ? Is it the "defense" minister who has made the Indian military to become the second-largest importer of armaments in the world while millions of civilians lead a miserable life because of lack of money ? Is it some idiot at the top who spends resources on needless purchases and projects while millions of citizens lack money and so lead a miserable life ? is it the maintainers of the entire political, social and economic system of India which allows these wrong things ? So who is the anti-national ?

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The idea of hindutva state is very very dangerous. Sometimes I can already see minorities begging on the streets of India. Is that what your forefathers dreamed about you?
And the biggest question is, will South accept that at all? I can an already Bengalis uprising, and Marathis, who invented that idea of hindtudva, they also can be seen shivering in the background.
This Gujrati hijacked ideology will simply tear the Indian fabric apart. That's my assessment.

 

[jamahir]

The idea of hindutva state is very very dangerous. Sometimes I can already see minorities begging on the streets of India. Is that what your forefathers dreamed about you?

No, my forefathers were perhaps enthused by progressive and secular thought that surrounded them during the time of the Partition at least in their vicinity and they stayed back. Such sentiment is also depicted in the Farooq Sheikh and Balraj Sahni film Garam Hava ( full film here ). From that YT page's description :

However, as the family is travelling towards the railway station, they encounter a large crowd of protestors marching against unemployment and discrimination, which Sikander had planned to join. Sikander's friends call out to him, and Salim encourages him to join the protestors. Instructing the carriage driver to take his wife back to their house, and the film ends as Salim Mirza himself joins the protest, ending his isolation from the new reality.

And the biggest question is, will South accept that at all? I can an already Bengalis uprising

What do you mean ?

and Marathis, who invented that idea of hindtudva, they also can be seen shivering in the background.

Maybe the Shiv Sena thinks the new Hindtuvadis and their preachers like Kangana Ranaut are going beyond the line that SS itself does not wish to cross.

This Gujrati hijacked ideology will simply tear the Indian fabric apart. That's my assessment.

Well, Gujarat was after all the first Hindutva experiment state.