Who is the anti-national in India ?

[peagle]

The Hindutva right-wing groups ( BJP, RSS etc ) in India and their many supporters in the visual and print media, on Twitter and on various websites are fond of assigning the phrase "anti-national" and so demonizing certain groups who either revolt against the right-wingers or don't fit into the category of Indians as understood by the Hindutvadis. Such groups include Muslims, Dalits, Christians, Socialists / Communists, Liberals, Centrists and recently the Sikh and other farmers protesting in Delhi.

But who is the real anti-national ? Is it the micro-finance company and the mahajan who force the farmer to commit suicide ? Is it the hospital which allowed the actor Ashiesh Roy to die of kidney ailment because he couldn't pay the treatment fees they demanded ? Is it the coaching center in Kota and the college which force students to commit suicide ? Is it the Maneka Gandhi adoring woman in my neighborhood who used to daily prepare special rice for the stray dogs and deliver it to them on her scooter while millions of humans in the country go hungry ? Is it Mukesh Ambani who built an obscene 27-storey for his family of four while millions are homeless or live in slums ? Is it Yogi Adityanath and Sadhvi Pragya who quote fondly from the Manusmriti and want to make it the Constitution ? Is it the Tablighi Jamaatis in IBM-India who instead of agitating for an employee union for the benefit of all employees instead agitate selfishly for prayer place and time within the office ? Is it some self-styled moral police who prevent inter-faith marriages from happening ? Is it the film maker Ashoke Pandit who makes films against the Naxalites without thinking of the unjust feudalism in Naxalbari which led to the Naxal uprising ? Is it various aalims and babas who spread superstition and child sacrifice in the society in 2021 instead of the country having a settlement on Mars given its big industrial base and supposedly talented engineers ? Is it the "defense" minister who has made the Indian military to become the second-largest importer of armaments in the world while millions of civilians lead a miserable life because of lack of money ? Is it some idiot at the top who spends resources on needless purchases and projects while millions of citizens lack money and so lead a miserable life ? is it the maintainers of the entire political, social and economic system of India which allows these wrong things ? So who is the anti-national ?

---

@The_Showstopper @Naofumi @xeuss @Joe Shearer @T90TankGuy @AgnosticIndian @Zapper @SuvarnaTeja @-=virus=- @dharmi @SrNair @Gadkari. Tag other Indians.

@Mentee @fitpOsitive @ps3linux @Cliftonite @Indos @AgNoStiC MuSliM

I really want to stay out of this debate, other then to read the contributions.
But, I will say this much,
I think there is far too much of "ANTI" everything in the Indian psyche, too much anger and hate.
Once the "anti" is taken out, everyone and everything will find their place, and you will have a India in peace with itself.

 

[-=virus=-]

And we all have heard the words used by BJP for the farmers : agents of Pakistan and China, anti-nationals, Khalistanis etc.

wasn't being entirely serious there but they are becoming a nuisance.

 

[Microsoft]

Not at all. Think he is the worst PM in Indian history. And that includes Deve Gowda.

Now that's antinational!

 

[Jackdaws]

Now that's antinational!

??

 

[Mentee]

Any man of "low birth " asking for equal social status from the high catse banya is considered a traitor to the cause

False bravado and sense of superiority kills. And I think people of both, India and Pakistan will learn that fact the hard way.

Jis din daish m kraanti a gy kanhayyia kumar jaysa banda pradhaan mantri ki krusi p beraajman ho sakta hai

 

[Peace be there]

Extremists love divisive politics :/ Anyone who's not in their extreme is anti-national, traitor to race, religion, caste etc. But this too shall pass. India is more resilient than two terms of fascists.

 

[achhu]

The Hindutva right-wing groups ( BJP, RSS etc ) in India and their many supporters in the visual and print media, on Twitter and on various websites are fond of assigning the phrase "anti-national" and so demonizing certain groups who either revolt against the right-wingers or don't fit into the category of Indians as understood by the Hindutvadis. Such groups include Muslims, Dalits, Christians, Socialists / Communists, Liberals, Centrists and recently the Sikh and other farmers protesting in Delhi.

But who is the real anti-national ? Is it the micro-finance company and the mahajan who force the farmer to commit suicide ? Is it the hospital which allowed the actor Ashiesh Roy to die of kidney ailment because he couldn't pay the treatment fees they demanded ? Is it the coaching center in Kota and the college which force students to commit suicide ? Is it the Maneka Gandhi adoring woman in my neighborhood who used to daily prepare special rice for the stray dogs and deliver it to them on her scooter while millions of humans in the country go hungry ? Is it Mukesh Ambani who built an obscene 27-storey for his family of four while millions are homeless or live in slums ? Is it Yogi Adityanath and Sadhvi Pragya who quote fondly from the Manusmriti and want to make it the Constitution ? Is it the Tablighi Jamaatis in IBM-India who instead of agitating for an employee union for the benefit of all employees instead agitate selfishly for prayer place and time within the office ? Is it some self-styled moral police who prevent inter-faith marriages from happening ? Is it the film maker Ashoke Pandit who makes films against the Naxalites without thinking of the unjust feudalism in Naxalbari which led to the Naxal uprising ? Is it various aalims and babas who spread superstition and child sacrifice in the society in 2021 instead of the country having a settlement on Mars given its big industrial base and supposedly talented engineers ? Is it the "defense" minister who has made the Indian military to become the second-largest importer of armaments in the world while millions of civilians lead a miserable life because of lack of money ? Is it some idiot at the top who spends resources on needless purchases and projects while millions of citizens lack money and so lead a miserable life ? is it the maintainers of the entire political, social and economic system of India which allows these wrong things ? So who is the anti-national ?

---

@The_Showstopper @Naofumi @xeuss @Joe Shearer @T90TankGuy @AgnosticIndian @Zapper @SuvarnaTeja @-=virus=- @dharmi @SrNair @Gadkari. Tag other Indians.

@Mentee @fitpOsitive @ps3linux @Cliftonite @Indos @AgNoStiC MuSliM

Why communists are anti Hindu and pro ISLAM?

Any man of "low birth " asking for equal social status from the high catse banya is considered a traitor to the cause


Jis din daish m kraanti a gy kanhayyia kumar jaysa banda pradhaan mantri ki krusi p beraajman ho sakta hai

Lol.....
Pakistanis are now banking upon Hindu banya KANHAIYA KUMAR .

 

[Joe Shearer]

Everyone blames someone for being anti national but noone takes the blame

I will explain in another post but try to derive the meaning from this riddle

How will explaining in another post be of any particular use? What is so difficult about putting forth your point of view here itself?

Why communists are anti Hindu and pro ISLAM?


Lol.....
Pakistanis are now banking upon Hindu banya KANHAIYA KUMAR .

When did Kanhaiya Kumar become a baniya?

 

[achhu]

When did Kanhaiya Kumar become a baniya?

Mussai
For Muslims All hindus are Hindu bania .you are Hindu bania and a surkha or red communist for Muslims of sharia lovers .

 

[Joe Shearer]

Mussai
For Muslims All hindus are Hindu bania .you are Hindu bania and a surkha or red communist for Muslims of sharia lovers .

You've spent a lot of time with some people, it seems. Allow some of them to teach you a better, more accurate way to say 'Mussai'.

I come into PDF once in a way for three reasons: to see if any friend has written something interesting; to read muscular people, whose musculature runs into their cranial spaces, writing with muscular wit about people, institutions and groups in India; to read over-cultured, decidedly hothouse flowers bitch-slapping the first.

It was so irritating that the mass expulsion and subsequent voluntary departure in high dudgeon of the bhakts left only a neutered version of the Green banniyas.

 

[achhu]

You've spent a lot of time with some people, it seems. Allow some of them to teach you a better, more accurate way to say 'Mussai'.

I come into PDF once in a way for three reasons: to see if any friend has written something interesting; to read muscular people, whose musculature runs into their cranial spaces, writing with muscular wit about people, institutions and groups in India; to read over-cultured, decidedly hothouse flowers bitch-slapping the first.

It was so irritating that the mass expulsion and subsequent voluntary departure in high dudgeon of the bhakts left only a neutered version of the Green banniyas.

Thank you

Moshai
Anything on Hindu banias who want to save HINDUSTAN from sharia lovers?

 

[Chhatrapati]

So who is the anti-national ?

It's fairly simple Jamahir, the ones who work against the nation. Remember when Communists wanted armed revolution in India with the help of China and USSR, or during the Indo-China war, communists siding with China. These are all classic definitions of anti-nationals.

 

[jamahir]

Why communists are anti Hindu and pro ISLAM?

1. The communists in India are not against Hindus but against Hindutva and all the socio-economic injustices, disparities and superstitions it brings.

2. You will have to define what "pro-Islam" means because the CPI certainly does not support Al Qaeda, the Taliban, the Tablighi Jamaat etc, because these groups do not represent the spirit of Islam.

3. The non-Muslim communists in India and elsewhere may have known from historical readings, preachings and understandings that Islam was a progressive, socialist movement. I myself consider modern Communism to be the natural successor of Islam. I quote from my thread from 2016 :

During the same period (1920s-30s), another (though lesser known) Islamic scholar in undivided India got smitten by the 1917 Russian revolution and Marxism.

Hafiz Rahman Sihwarwl saw Islam and Marxism sharing five elements in common: (1) prohibition of the accumulation of wealth in the hands of the privileged classes (2) organisation of the economic structure of the state to ensure social welfare (3) equality of opportunity for all human beings (4) priority of collective social interest over individual privilege and (5) prevention of the permanentising of class structure through social revolution.

The motivations for many of these themes he drew from the Qur’an, which he understood as seeking to create an economic order in which the rich pay excessive, though voluntary taxes (Zakat) to minimise differences in living standards.

In the areas that Sihwarwl saw Islam and communism diverge were Islam’s sanction of private ownership within certain limits, and in its refusal to recognise an absolutely classless basis of society.

He suggested that Islam, with its prohibition of the accumulation of wealth, is able to control the class structure through equality of opportunity.

Basically, both Sindhi and Sihwarwl had stumbled upon an Islamic concept of the social democratic welfare state.

Please read the thread OP and the subsequent discussions there. You may not know but out of the eight ( or nine ) people who formed the Communist Party of India in 1920 in Tashkent, four were Muslims. I too call myself an old-style Muslim to differentiate myself from many of the recent middle class Muslim males who become part of the Tablighi Jamaat. BTW, please read this thread of mine which is my proposal for a new economic system which is designed to prohibit accumulation of wealth which aim is of Islam as well as of modern Communism.

4. Please address the many points in the OP.

It's fairly simple Jamahir, the ones who work against the nation.

What about the Hindutvadis who never contributed to India before Independence and after ? They have carried out rioting, killings, bombings and assassinations of progressives. Also to mention jailing of progressives.

The Hindutvadis are a 'Dharti pe bojh'.

@Naofumi, I am doing whataboutery here and I think it is legitimate. Same for the Soviets.

Remember when Communists wanted armed revolution in India with the help of China and USSR

Please list how India would have looked like if there had been an armed communist revolution in India ( like Bhagat Singh would have liked ). What do you think would have been the differences between India thus and the India led by BJP ?

or during the Indo-China war, communists siding with China.

Well, some Indian communists certainly were in awe of the Maoist revolution in China but I think they overdid it.

Millions of Videos out there showing dogs saving humans.

Your point was that dogs have to be rabid to attack humans. I disproved you.

Try shooting a dog with a pellet gun in my presence, you would regret that you were born.

1. You got outraged about me shooting at dogs but no outrage from you about the injustices and disparities I described in the OP. Che Guevara said, "If you tremble with indignation at every injustice, then you are a comrade of mine." Is that your feeling too or not ?

2. No outrage from you about what dogs can do to humans.

3. If you really like cats and want a harmonious society for humans you will call for the removal of dogs.

 

[Thamizh Puli]

why does India have to be communist or capitalist or socialist or any ist.

Communism collapsed Soviet, made Cuba a shell and caused China lose all Chineseness and become the plastic west.

We are seeing capitalism turn the US into a winner-take-all monopoly game where my millions mean nothing because it is not many billions

Socialism seems to have demanded so much compromise, apologies and self-sacrifice that a great leader Modi cannot accept a great leader Nehru.

As we struggle through these extremes and middles, globalism has made mistakes of others ours too: so India has to suffer a bit for China's errors, America's aggression, Russian sulk, Africa's diffidence ...even Srilanka/Pakistani/Nepal's displeasures.

May be yu should invent a new ism that optimizes around and across all these complicated realities

 

[jamahir]

why does India have to be communist or capitalist or socialist or any ist.

Well, it has to be some progressive ist.

Communism collapsed Soviet

No, it did not.

It was the mismanagement of Gorbachev combined with political idea stagnation which did it.

made Cuba a shell

Even now the healthcare system in Cuba is universal and free for its citizens.

and caused China lose all Chineseness and become the plastic west.

Well, China is not longer a country that desires to be a Communist system. Indicators are no free, universal healthcare and citizens shamelessly, proudly speaking of high house prices in Hong Kong.

We are seeing capitalism turn the US into a winner-take-all monopoly game where my millions mean nothing because it is not many billions

Yes, which is why the Occupy Movement of 2011 wanted to overthrow the system where the billionaires live like kings but where the not-rich have to struggle for basic things like housing and healthcare. The Occupy Movement then spread to the other four Anglo countries.

Socialism seems to have demanded so much compromise, apologies and self-sacrifice that a great leader Modi cannot accept a great leader Nehru.

What compromises ?

May be yu should invent a new ism that optimizes around and across all these complicated realities

Please read this thread of mine which is my proposal for a new economic system which is designed to not only have a basic welfare state but also prevents accumulation of wealth ( and thus no rich and poor ) which aim is of Communism. We can discuss further in that thread.