Who is an Islamophobe ?

[vsdoc]

Orionhunter, good point on the corporate bit.

 

[Awesome]

I am intrigued by your definitions (or Wiki's).

Because most times here on PDF, Islamophobe is loosely used to indicate someone who dislikes Islam or Muslims.

Not fears.

Yes, you do dislike what you fear. But you do not necessarily fear what you dislike. Or who.

Like most descriptions, its not based upon a hard and fast rule.

Wiki using various words, "irrational fear", aversion, dislike, hatread, prejudice, disposition, bias, racism...

But when you're acting like one, everyone knows what you are.

The simple way to describe it would be - Racism against Muslims. But since its so much - it needed its own word.

 

[Developereo]

Yes true. But how do I know it if you do not tell me?

I may still be an Islamophobe. But I do not dislike you.

Reminds me of an anti-racism ad we had on TV.

A white person is talking jovially on the phone to a recruiter and finishes up by saying, "just make sure he is not black or Chinese". Then the camera switches to the person on the other end of the phone and the recruiter happens to be black.

The point is that, if your (not YOUR) behavior towards, and perception of, a person would change drastically and become stereotypical if that person's details were revealed, then you are a bigot.

 

[Developereo]

I need to know a very basic thing here.

an Islamophobe is a person who is scared of Islam

OR

an Islamophobe is a person who is scared of Muslims.

It is the belief that a person's behavior and character can be described completely by knowing their religion, and there is no significant individuality.

So it's both of your definitions depending on context.

 

[Awesome]

Reminds me of an anti-racism ad we had on TV.

A white person is talking jovially on the phone to a recruiter and finishes up by saying, "just make sure he is not black or Chinese". Then the camera switches to the person on the other end of the phone and the recruiter happens to be black.

The point is that, if your (not YOUR) behavior towards, and perception of, a person would change drastically and become stereotypical if that person's details were revealed, then you are a bigot.

I would concur... You just know the best places to find work is where they don't ask your nationality, age, gender and especially religion. But there are sitll places where they do.

For all intents and purposes you MUST treat a person the same regardless of nationality, age, gender, religion, unless its pertinent to the activity you are performing like for example a political debate between two nationalities.

 

[vsdoc]

I would concur... You just know the best places to find work is where they don't ask your nationality, age, gender and especially religion. But there are sitll places where they do.

For all intents and purposes you MUST treat a person the same regardless of nationality, age, gender, religion, unless its pertinent to the activity you are performing like for example a political debate between two nationalities.

Be practical.

You think people cannot decipher who you are by your name?

It happens the world over man.

Clicks and lobbies and inner circles in the corporate world.

Why would Muslims be special here?

Ref checks anyways mean the company probably knows more about you than your parents do.

 

[Developereo]

I would concur... You just know the best places to find work is where they don't ask your nationality, age, gender and especially religion. But there are sitll places where they do.

For all intents and purposes you MUST treat a person the same regardless of nationality, age, gender, religion, unless its pertinent to the activity you are performing like for example a political debate between two nationalities.

Many of those things can be guessed accurately from the resume. In the US people don't put their age on the resume, but I was surprised that in Europe and Australia, some people do. In any case, the age can also be guessed from the resume anyway.

 

[vsdoc]

I have a question for Asim and Developer.

I love dogs. And I know breeds and their temperaments.

I would never trust a Doberman or a Rott with my 6 year old. Even my 15 year old only after intense familiarization.

Why?

Because I know they are not safe with kids.

Does that make me racist towards them?

Or simply forewarned?

 

[Awesome]

Be practical.

You think people cannot decipher who you are by your name?

It happens the world over man.

Clicks and lobbies and inner circles in the corporate world.

Why would Muslims be special here?

Ref checks anyways mean the company probably knows more about you than your parents do.

Ethical company would always DECLARE they need a background check and declare the purpose they need to do that for, get a consent for it and then do it. Background checks are needed primarily to check your criminal record. Now religion may come up during it but its not the intent.

Heck in the US you can't even advertize I need an Indian roommate, everyone should get a chance to apply and you should have a well defined acceptance/rejection criteria.

I have a question for Asim and Developer.

I love dogs. And I know breeds and their temperaments.

I would never trust a Doberman or a Rott with my 6 year old. Even my 15 year old only after intense familiarization.

Why?

Because I know they are not safe with kids.

Does that make me racist towards them?

Or simply forewarned?

Thats the definition of being a racist. If you think there is a breed of humanity called Muslims that are inherrently going to be a danger, then your logic is irrational and hence a racist - hence an Islamophobe. You cannot make this presupposition. You can test each and every individual baby sitter for dangerous activity but the test should be applied to them all, not just the Muslim and see the result.

 

[Awesome]

Why do you think the strongest department in all big name companies is the HR - they have to develop these best practices and policies and implement them.

I know in most places HR is crap, but that doesn't mean practice and ethical examples not exist. At the end of the day there is no total cure, but best practices can be implemented for optimization.

 

[Developereo]

I love dogs. And I know breeds and their temperaments.

I don't know much about dogs but, by your statement, can we assume that a dog's behavior (temperament) is statistically preordained by its breed?

If so, your behavior is rational. It is the same as saying that you wouldn't hire a drug junkie to babysit your kids.

If the predictor of behavior is legitimate, then it's not prejudice. Of course, now one can debate what is, and is not, legitimate but, as we have noted, the belief that all Muslims are driven by a common agenda is a fallacious concept.

 

[vsdoc]

Thats the definition of being a racist. If you think there is a breed of humanity called Muslims that are inherrently going to be a danger, then your logic is irrational and hence a racist - hence an Islamophobe. You cannot make this presupposition. You can test each and every individual baby sitter for dangerous activity but the test should be applied to them all, not just the Muslim and see the result.

I guess what you say is correct.

I would still not even "test" a Rott with my kid man.

I've seen what a half irritated snap of one's jaw can do to a full grown man's shin bone.

I don't know much about dogs but, by your statement, can we assume that a dog's behavior (temperament) is preordained by its breed?

If so, your behavior is rational. It is the same as saying that you wouldn't hire a drug junkie to babysit your kids.

If the predictor of behavior is legitimate, then it's not prejudice. Of course, now one can debate what is, and is not, legitimate but, as we have noted, the belief that all Muslims are driven by a common agenda is a fallacious concept.

Yes you got it. Asim did too, but would like to stretch the debate.

There are breeds which most Kennel associations need a license for. Its literally like owning a firearm.

Some breeds are even outlawed as pets.

In the US you have different laws in different states.

 

[VCheng]

..............

If the predictor of behavior is legitimate, then it's not prejudice. Of course, now one can debate what is, and is not, legitimate but, as we have noted, the belief that all Muslims are driven by a common agenda is a fallacious concept.

So the Department of Homeland Security probably has the correct policies, wouldn't you agree?

 

[Peregrine]

Are we seriously going to convince an Indian atheist about what Islamophobia is? The very people who dont even recognise religions in first place? what a waste of bandwith................ I rather teach my vicious pitbull to embrace all stray cats than to reason with Indians.

 

[Bang Galore]

I don't know much about dogs but, by your statement, can we assume that a dog's behavior (temperament) is statistically preordained by its breed?

More like predisposed to certain forms of behaviour. Upbringing is important but the essence of the breed remains even when not demonstrated by a particular individual.