Where is Islam in Islamic Republic of Pakistan?

[Last Hope]

Assalam u alikum,
Hope everything is going fine.

I have just seen this thread, and havent followed it. Can someone enlighten me with some breifs, so that I am able to express my POint of Views.

I have many, causes for it and how to overcome it, but have no idea how to and from where to start it.

Thanks!

 

[TARIQ BN ZIYAAD]

AoA
in this reply i will try to share my view point and sorry in advance if i hurt someones feelings.

1. AM said someone a hypocrite but i being a regular follower of the thread am observing that our moderators few of them are getting involed in same thing. a thread created yeasterday showed they banned very senior members and not letting them to share their point of view. because the members were stick to their point. (what is hypocracy now)
and AM is repeating same thing in 4-5 of his posts so i am trying to reply.
1. Equality for ALL.

Equality to all not means that an educated man and an un-educated man are eligibal for the same post in an office. ( suppose grade 17)
If I am not a phd and i wish people call me doctor i shall be making a fool of myself. neighther will i get a doctors job. Why ??? because i am not a doctor(PHD). and Quraan and sunnah gives us the knoledge to judge some one through his acts.

2. No compulsion in religion

there was no compulsion of religion at the time of Mohammad (PBUH) if we follow the same path QURAAN and sunnah there will be compulsion.

3. Allah is the only and final judge of an individual's faith

ALLAH Pak will judge at the day of judgment not before that.
but if you leave every one to that day then you are not following Islam and Mohammad (PBUH) path becaus Dawah is must in islam. You must preach islam to non-belivers. and after you convayed your msg to him let him decide what he want. Islam is not by force. BUT if I am not preaching islam and what I know then i should be accountable to ALLAH.

assalam alaikum

When we say insha Allah some of our brother will tell us u leave everything to Allah and don't wanna do somethiing and when it suits them they tell us to leave it to Allah

TARIQ

 

[mikkix]

assalam alaikum

When we say insha Allah some of our brother will tell us u leave everything to Allah and don't wanna do somethiing and when it suits them they tell us to leave it to Allah

TARIQ

Bro i m sleeping, Insha Allah my laptop will be automatically shutdown, and i will awake tomorrow at 8 without the need of alarm by the grace of God. so
TC, Bye.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

Sure, through preaching, proselytizing and discussions - not through force and open discrimination through laws.

Remember what Islam commands:

1. Equality for ALL.

2. No compulsion in religion

3. Allah is the only and final judge of an individual's faith.

If Islam commands to go by other religious laws then please kindly share those commands.

 

[Majnun]

What I want to understand is how far removed from Islam is the parliamentary system of democracy? Muhammad bin Qasim obviously believes in living in a stifling dictatorship but maybe others can answer this. I don't see any major difference between the two, in theory, at least.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

The issue described in a nutshell... according to Islamic rules... Not some west inspired equality mantra...

So are you suggesting that 'according to Islamic rules' the concept of equality is one in which only those that share the religious views of the ruling class are the ones that enjoy 'equal rights'?

Because that is not equality, it is hypocrisy and double standards. If that is your version of Islam, then stop touting it as a faith that gives equality to all, because it obviously does not do that according to your interpretation.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

If Islam commands to go by other religious laws then please kindly share those commands.

The three basic commands Posted are self evident and self explanatory. Nothing I have argued in terms of the rights of Ahmadis and minorities is in contradiction to those commands, so I fail to see where you came up with the argument of 'where does Islam command to go by other religions laws' since I have made no argument supporting laws from 'other religions'.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

The three basic commands Posted are self evident and self explanatory. Nothing I have argued in terms of the rights of Ahmadis and minorities is in contradiction to those commands, so I fail to see where you came up with the argument of 'where does Islam command to go by other religions laws' since I have made no argument supporting laws from 'other religions'.

Then whats the argument here when minorities have their rights in Islamic laws? One of the reason why Islamic system is the best for Pakistan.

 

[Durrak]

The three basic commands Posted are self evident and self explanatory. Nothing I have argued in terms of the rights of Ahmadis and minorities is in contradiction to those commands, so I fail to see where you came up with the argument of 'where does Islam command to go by other religions laws' since I have made no argument supporting laws from 'other religions'.

Okay so it means that Islam provide rights to all minorities so y shouldn't we apply Islamic law in Pakistan???

 

[Myth_buster_1]

Okay so it means that Islam provide rights to all minorities so y shouldn't we apply Islamic law in Pakistan???

I guess we wont look cool? or appeal to the west?

 

[Myth_buster_1]

There are different reasons why Islamic parties opposed Pakistan... If we take just a country for Muslims argument as proposed by the Secularists then most of the Muslims in India (which are btw greater in number than Muslims living in Pakistan) are doing fine in India today... They can even boast a Muslim as President (Abdul Kalam)... Seriously if it was a case for land for the sake of Muslims only (living under all sorts of kufr laws) then why shed the blood of million trying to make Pakistan... we could have lived side by side the Hindus and Sikhs like Muslims live there even today...

10000000000000% agree with you man!!!

You talk about the past, I have even heard modern scholars like Zakir Naik who have huge following in Pakistan etc (even though I have disagreements with some of the things they say) that the experiment for Pakistan was wrong and we should have focussed on living together like we have done so for thousands of years...

I wont be surprised if this nutcase launches one of his own sects very soon.
I hate those who first gain popularity and then abuse that fame for his her own personal goals.

However... no dough Zakir naik has very good Islamic knowledge but one should not only rely on him for information.

 

[Durrak]

I guess we wont look cool? or appeal to the west?

Worst thing to do

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Then whats the argument here when minorities have their rights in Islamic laws? One of the reason why Islamic system is the best for Pakistan.

The argument here is that none of you proponents of 'Islamic Law' are willing to give minorities rights. You are unwilling to end discriminatory laws against Ahmadis, you are unwilling to develop a consensus over the system to be implemented with all political, ethnic and sectarian groups, you are unwilling to recognize that 'equal rights for all citizens' means that every citizen, regardless of faith or ethnicity, is eligible for running for any public office in the land.

So unless you accept the above, your claims about 'Islam offering equal rights to everyone' is a lie and hypocrisy designed to serve an extremist agenda to get into power.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

The argument here is that none of you proponents of 'Islamic Law' are willing to give minorities rights. You are unwilling to end discriminatory laws against Ahmadis, you are unwilling to develop a consensus over the system to be implemented with all political, ethnic and sectarian groups, you are unwilling to recognize that 'equal rights for all citizens' means that every citizen, regardless of faith or ethnicity, is eligible for running for any public office in the land.

So unless you accept the above, your claims about 'Islam offering equal rights to everyone' is a lie and hypocrisy designed to serve an extremist agenda to get into power.

I cant help it, but this is your own poor interpretation of what we are talking about here.
We are only supportive of what Islam instructs muslims to do. And yes minorities have their rights and they will be given their rights according to Islam. Now dont expect non-muslim to run the country simply because Prophet Mohammed PBUH would not allow that to happen to any Islamic dominated state.

Ahmadis are not MUSLIMS. Period.
Islam does not allow any such kind of freedom where anyone can stand up and say I am a MUSLIM but yet believe in something else... Nation of Islam also believe they are muslims but they are simply disbelievers non-muslim because they do not believe in the final messenger of Allah (prophet Mohammed PBUH) and many core belief what allah has reviled to his messengers and in Quran.
Unless you can prove from Quran such sects are allowed to be called Islam other wise brother you need to seriously study about Islam.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

I cant help it, but this is your own poor interpretation of what we are talking about here.
We are only supportive of what Islam instructs muslims to do. And yes minorities have their rights and they will be given their rights according to Islam. Now dont expect non-muslim to run the country simply because Prophet Mohammed PBUH would not allow that to happen to any Islamic dominated state.

Where in the Quran does it say that a non-Muslim cannot be elected to run the State?

And what gives you the right to speculate on what the Prophet may or may not have done?

Ahmadis are not MUSLIMS. Period.

Only Allah has the right to pass judgment on the faith of someone, but even if we assume for the sake of argument that they are not Muslims, to force them to be called 'non-Muslim' through laws is discrimination and not an example of 'equal rights'. If you really mean it when you say Islam as a religion guarnatees equal rights for minorities, then you should have no objection to the repeal of the anti-Ahmadi laws and accepting the right of an Ahmadi to run for any public office in the country.

Islam does not allow any such kind of freedom where anyone can stand up and say I am a MUSLIM but yet believe in something else... Nation of Islam also believe they are muslims but they are simply disbelievers non-muslim because they do not believe in the final messenger of Allah (prophet Mohammed PBUH) and many core belief what allah has reviled to his messengers and in Quran.
Unless you can prove from Quran such sects are allowed to be called Islam other wise brother you need to seriously study about Islam.

Then your Islam does not grant equality or freedom to minorities, and your claims of such are a lie.

Disagreeing with someones religious beliefs is a very, very poor reason to discriminate against them.