When You Kill Ten Million Africans You Aren’t Called ‘Hitler’

[INDIC]

That is what exactly the argument was about . The westerners write only what suites their cause . Propaganda and lies . Wiki is just another example . There was no bengali genocide committed by Pakistan Army in east Pakistan . And there is tons of material which goes against this alleged genocide propaganda . Even the famous Indian writer Sarmila Bose in her book "The dead reckoning" acknowledges this fact that it was the Indian and Bengali propaganda for political purposes. Bengalis have never been able to show international observers, a single mass grave , of the alleged thousands , Millions of stranded pakistanis in raufabad , bangladesh camps even after the passage of four decades , itself is a proof that who killed who .

Archer Blood and Anthony Mascarenhas had written eyewitness account of the events in East Pakistan. The book written by Sharmila Bose is extremely flawed.

 

[Audio]

we are more than happy to be "uncivilized"

No worries, you're the poster childs for uncivilized.

 

[M. Sarmad]

Archer Blood and Anthony Mascarenhas had written eyewitness account of the events in East Pakistan. The book written by Sharmila Bose is extremely flawed.

an eyewitness account of alleged 3 million murders and half a million rapes ?? Sharmila Bose`s book is flawed because it contradicts Indian interests ??
A better approach is to try and find out actual "evidences" of the alleged atrocities instead of relying on statements made by different people . And bengalis have failed to bring forward enough objective evidence in front of neutral observors which proves mass murders and rapes

 

[INDIC]

an eyewitness account of alleged 3 million murders and half a million rapes ?? Sharmila Bose`s book is flawed because it contradicts Indian interests ??
A better approach is to try and find out actual "evidences" of the alleged atrocities instead of relying on statements made by different people . And bengalis have failed to bring forward enough objective evidence in front of neutral observors which proves mass murders and rapes

Dead Reckoning: Disappearing stories and evidence

 

[M. Sarmad]

Dead Reckoning: Disappearing stories and evidence

The link is not working ..



American political scientists Richard Sisson and Leo E. Rose, give an estimate of 300,000 dead, killed by all parties and deny a genocide occurred.[Beachler, Donald W. (2011). The Genocide Debate: Politicians, Academics, and Victims. Palgrave Macmillan]

Hamoodur Rahman Commission, an official Pakistan Government investigation, put the figure as low as 26,000 civilian casualties.

According to Sarmila Bose, between 50,000 and 100,000 combatants and civilians were killed by both sides during the war.

A 2008 British Medical Journal study by Ziad Obermeyer, Christopher J. L. Murray, and Emmanuela Gakidou estimated that up to 269,000 civilians died as a result of the conflict; the authors note that this is far higher than a previous estimate of 58,000 from Uppsala University and the Peace Research Institute, Oslo.

According to Serajur Rahman, the official Bangladeshi estimate of "3 lahks" (300,000) was wrongly translated into English as 3 million.[The Guardian, May 23, 2011]

 

[INDIC]

The link is not working ..



American political scientists Richard Sisson and Leo E. Rose, give an estimate of 300,000 dead, killed by all parties and deny a genocide occurred.[Beachler, Donald W. (2011). The Genocide Debate: Politicians, Academics, and Victims. Palgrave Macmillan]

Hamoodur Rahman Commission, an official Pakistan Government investigation, put the figure as low as 26,000 civilian casualties.

According to Sarmila Bose, between 50,000 and 100,000 combatants and civilians were killed by both sides during the war.

A 2008 British Medical Journal study by Ziad Obermeyer, Christopher J. L. Murray, and Emmanuela Gakidou estimated that up to 269,000 civilians died as a result of the conflict; the authors note that this is far higher than a previous estimate of 58,000 from Uppsala University and the Peace Research Institute, Oslo.

According to Serajur Rahman, the official Bangladeshi estimate of "3 lahks" (300,000) was wrongly translated into English as 3 million.[The Guardian, May 23, 2011]

The link I posted i working fine, click on it once.

<i>Dead Reckoning</i>: Disappearing stories and evidence

 

[M. Sarmad]

The link I posted i working fine, click on it once.

<i>Dead Reckoning</i>: Disappearing stories and evidence

and what is so special about this article ? It is just a simple article , written by a Indian journalist (Gita Sahgol) in which she says that she tried to ask a few questions from Sharmila Bose , but could not get satisfactory answers, and due to criticism on her book, Bose has reshaped her original opinion (Gita has termed Bose as a shape-shifter). It is only a personal opinion of a journalist who does not agree with Bose .
We were talking about OBJECTIVE EVIDENCE(mass graves etc.) of the alleged genocide carried out by the Pak Army in 1971 . If you are so much sure that a genocide was actually carried out , then kindly provide the evidence records , not statements . Many analysts have right out denied the occurence of the alleged genocide . Many believe it to be true . So , only objective evidence can decide . And when it comes to evidence , The Indians and Bengalis lose their case

 

[Wholegrain]

Look at 50 centers trying to claim they could colonize the world!

China intervened in Sri Lanka with thousands of troops in 1411 to support King Parakramabahu VI against King Alakeshvara, who usurped the throne. China won and installed King Parakramabahu on the throne, who united the entire Sri Lanka. China then left Sri Lanka after helping fix the problem.

Sri Lanka Past and Present - L. R. Reddy - Google Books

Buddha in the Crown : Avalokitesvara in the Buddhist Traditions of Sri Lanka ... - John Clifford Holt Associate Professor of Religion Bowdoin College - Google Books

Later on, when the Dutch and british came to Sri Lanka, they decided to "stay" and "help" the Sri Lankans by colonizing their land for several centuries instead of leaving like China.

Mighty Slovenia would probably try to genocide the Sri Lankans instead.

 

[edwardsnowden]

BOOK BANNING
www.whale.to/a/book_banning.html

"Where they burn books, they will in the end burn people".---Heinrich Heine

[Hardly much need to ban books as the revealing ones never even get into the bookshops. A good example of how access to revealing books is suppressed is the way the Allopathic Wikipedia editors delete pages or attempt to delete pages to authors of revealing smallpox books, failing that they have suppressed all links to them on whale. See: Wikipedia ASA

In the USA books were suppressed by issuing mail stop orders so not allowing posting. They burnt all of Reich's books in 1956, then killed him in jail. Quite a few books around the Holocaust have been suppressed or banned e.g. An Eye for An Eye by John Sack, The Auschwitz Myth by Wilhelm Stäglich, The Auschwitz Lie by Thies Christopherson, and many thrown in jail

10,000 copies of the German edition of a Eustace Mullins book called Mullins on the Federal Reserve were burned in 1956 [1]. A German edition was eventually printed in 1980.]

A couple of Holocaust related links:

winstonsmith@theministryoftruth.ls1
winstonsmithministryoftruth.blogspot.com

Australia's Democracy put to the test
adelaideinstitute.org


"World War II casualties: Over 60 million people were killed, which was over 2.5% of the world population (of approximately 2.3 billion in 1939). Among the massive death tolls, 20 ~ 30 plus million of them were the Russians, followed closely by the Chinese at 20+ million, a fact hardly worth mentioning in the Corporate-controlled media in the West. Until today they just talk about the Holocaust as far as concerning the victims of the WWII."

 

[Wholegrain]

Well, people tend to have a narrow-minded view when dealing with their own history, but I believe there is more self-introspection and acknowledgement among Westerners in academic circles and school curricula about the historical wrongdoings as distinct from the non-Western world.
I can encounter plenty of Africans who will crucify the whites for the slave trade, but turn a blind eye with regards to the African and Arab participation, plenty of Turks who deny the Armenian genocide altogether, plenty of Arabs who justify the Arab slave trade by saying that Arab slavery wasn't so harsh as the European version, plenty of Pakistani who will glorify Central Asian invaders, and plenty of Japanese who will either downplay or minimise war crimes during World War 2, as it described in their text books. But I rarely encounter a fellow German who justifies the Holocaust, a Dutch who will declare that colonial rule in Indonesia was actually beneficial for the local population, a Belgian who denies the Congolese genocide or an American who claims that slavery was a necessary evil.
The centre of gravity for the theme is a bit off in the article.

The Portuguese invaded the East African Swahili coast. After decades of misrule, cruelty, and harsh treatment, the people there sent a letter to the Omani Arabs asking them to liberate East Africa from the Portuguese, which they did. The Omani Arabs then took over the Swahili coast and incorporated it into their empire, where Arabs ruled over East africa.

The East Africa Protectorate - Sir Charles Eliot - Google Books

The Land of Zinj: Being an Account of British East Africa, its Ancient ... - C.H. Stigland - Google Books

The Countries and Tribes of the Persian Gulf - Samuel Barrett Miles - Google Books

There was an Arab merchant and slave trader named Bushiri bin Salim al-Harthi led an Arab revolt against the German East Africa Company from 1888-1890. Guess what? The black Africans supported his revolt and even joined his army to fight the German invaders who were brutal to the natives.

Bushiri was initially succesful against the German East Africa Company forces, but when the German government sent its army over the revolt was defeated (with British assistance in implementing a blockade), it ended when German forces under Hermann von Wissmann assaulted Bagamoyo and Bushiri was executed. Bushiri was a rival of the Zanzibar Sultanate, but after the Germans defeated Bushiri, they forced Zanzibar to sell them the coastal strip the Sultanate owned on the African mainland. Bushiri had opposed to the Zanzibar Sultan in part because of its cooperation with the colonial powers and it gave up alot of the Swahili coast to German and Britain, Bushiri explicitly mentioned the fact that their lands were being given to the foreigners as his reason for war.

After the Germans won the war against Bushiri, they promptly took the same chains that were used by Arabs to trade African slaves, and put them back on the Africans and put them to work for more harsh treatment and forced labor

Bushiri and his followers are regarded as freedom fighters in modern Tanzania which is run by black Africans.

Freundeskreis Bagamoyo e.V.: Famous Sights

Hanging-Place

Bushiri rebellion
On the compound of Badeco Beach Hotel we find a monument, reminding freedom fighters who were hanged to death by the Germans during German colonialism.
According to all available sources here supporters of Bushiri were hanged in December 1889, after Bushiri himself was hanged to death on the 12/15/1889 in Pangani.
Bushiri-supporters in Bagamoyo were Simba Mbili, Marera, Mbomboma, Kriolhe, Salim bin Abdalla, Pori and Kisoko.
An old German photograph shows gallows near to the Old Fort with one hanged person. In the background behind trees the Old Fort can be seen.
We did not know if the present monument stands exactly on the place where we had the gallows. And it also seems not be really true what the present inscription tells which was written during the Anti-Colonial time.
The Hanging Place is a national memorial today.

Oman Virtual Museum documents a private collection of antiques from Oman and Zanzibar.

Starting 1884 Germans traders lead by Carl Peters (and without support of the German government) negotiated directly with local chiefs for control of large parts of East Africa. Later they rented for 50 years a coastal strip of East Africa opposite Zanzibar from Sultan Khalifa. After the Germans started developing their activities in East Africa (with the DOAG company) the role of the Arabs in the ivory / slave-trade greatly diminished and was replaced by German forced labor, with "prisoners" chained by their necks. The local population was also forced to work for the Germans in various ways e.g. via taxes and "delivering stones for food"

The Arabs in East Africa revolted against the invading German traders and against their own Sultan (because of his lack of support) but were beaten by the Germans led by von Wissman once the German navy / army in 1889 came to their rescue. The leader of the Arab revolt was hanged by the Germans (see photo below).

11075 Heavily chained prisoners at work in German East Africa

Photographer Keystone View Company Copyrighted Underwood & Underwood / Meadville USA 1890-1900
Description
Stereo photo showing many chained prisoners carrying heavy cans on their heads in German East Africa. The laborers are chained with a steel collar by their necks and are guarded by black Ashkari soldiers trained by and working for the German occupants.
The Germans replaced Omani slavery of the black population by German forced labor. From a the black populations perspective there was not much improvement. Each photo is approx 8 by 8 cm.

Prisoners / forced laborers chained by the neck (!!) with their DOAG German guards for Kilwa fort taken around 1891

Photographer Unknown
Title
German fortress with chained slaves or prisoners (fort Bonia/Boma On Kilwa?)

Description
Rare photo. The black prisoners have been chained to each other by the Germans, like Arab slaves previously. Including steel bands around their necks.
Customs station of Deutsch-Ostafrikanischen Gesellschaft.
In 1888 two employees of D.O.A.G were killed by the uprise of the Arabs against the Germans and the Sultan.
In May 1890 the D.O.A.G station was taken by Wissmann.
Condition fine
References Slavernij en bevrijding in Oost Afrika in de 19e eeuw by Afrika museum Berg en Dal 2003.

Three original photos of Bushiri bin Salim the leader of the Arab revolt against the Germans taken 1888

Photographer Unknown
Description
Scarce photo. The revolt was led by Buschiri and by Bwana Heri
The slide-show contains three fine photos. One blue photo has been printed in a special technique named....

Original photo. In 1888 the Omani / Zanzibari Arabs and some African tribes (Yao) in East Afrika started a revolt against the Germans and the Sultan of Zanzibar who were taking over control of East Afrika.

The livelihood of these Arabs and African tribes was threatened by the Germans taking control of the country, they were typically ivory and slave traders and owners of plantations with slaves.

They also revolted against the Sultan as he was seen as a puppet of the British.
The German army led by Hermann von Wissmann put down the revolt. Bushiri was arrested and hanged in 1889 (see next photos).

Ironically the Germans stopped slavery but at the same time they took large numbers of Africans prisoner and turned them into forced labor, often shackled with the same chains previously used by the Arabs for slaves.
So slavery effectively becomes forced labor (just a different name)!!.

Also the Germans do not involve the Africans in any way in the development of the country and they were without any rights.

Origin Taken in East Afrika
References Slavernij en bevrijding in Oost-Afrika in de 19e eeuw, Afrika Museum, Berg en Dal 2003 page 123 (incl background to the events and other photo of Bushiri)

Savage and Soldier Online

Bushiri bin Salim

Abushiri ibn Salim al-Harthi - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Abushiri Revolt - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Tanzania & Zanzibar - Annabel Skinner - Google Books

Religious Discourse, Social Cohesion and Conflict: Muslim - Christian ... - Thomas Joseph Ndaluka - Google Books

The Political Development of Tanganyika - James Clagett Taylor - Google Books

International Dictionary of Historic Places: Middle East and Africa - Google Books

Encyclopedia of Africa south of the Sahara - John Middleton - Google Books

Developing the Rivers of East and West Africa: An Environmental History - Heather J. Hoag - Google Books

Freundeskreis Bagamoyo e.V.: History of Bagamoyo

http://homepage.univie.ac.at/walter...l_Exploration_and_East_African_Resistance.pdf

Oman Virtual Museum documents a private collection of antiques from Oman and Zanzibar.

Bushiri, bin Salim : Dictionary of African Biography Oxford Reference[/quote]

These are pictures of Bushiri and his fighters.

It turned out after all that the black Africans didn't like German rule. In the Maji Maji uprising, Black African Muslims revolted in 1905-1907 against the Germans in German East Africa. Over 100,000 were killed before the revolt was put down.

A History of Sub-Saharan Africa - Robert O. Collins, James M. Burns - Google Books

Islam and Politics in East Africa: The Sufi Order in Tanzania - August H. Nimtz - Google Books

Bodies, Politics, and African Healing: The Matter of Maladies in Tanzania - Stacey Ann Langwick - Google Books

Cosmopolitanisms in Muslim Contexts: Perspectives from the Past - Google Books

The bottom line is that the black Africans didn't like being slaves of Germans any more then that of Arabs, and even joined big time Arab slave traders to fight the German colonizers.

Germany is responsible for this too.

Herero and Namaqua Genocide - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[edwardsnowden]

I believe it is NOT ONLY German, but also ALL WHITE races, the notorious colonials, are involved in slavery in Africa: Portuguese; Spanish; Dutch; French; British; and American. They just differ in the magnitude!!

 

[INDIC]

and what is so special about this article ? It is just a simple article , written by a Indian journalist (Gita Sahgol) in which she says that she tried to ask a few questions from Sharmila Bose , but could not get satisfactory answers, and due to criticism on her book, Bose has reshaped her original opinion (Gita has termed Bose as a shape-shifter). It is only a personal opinion of a journalist who does not agree with Bose .
We were talking about OBJECTIVE EVIDENCE(mass graves etc.) of the alleged genocide carried out by the Pak Army in 1971 . If you are so much sure that a genocide was actually carried out , then kindly provide the evidence records , not statements . Many analysts have right out denied the occurence of the alleged genocide . Many believe it to be true . So , only objective evidence can decide . And when it comes to evidence , The Indians and Bengalis lose their case

The article says Sharmila Bose's book is inaccurate.

 

[M. Sarmad]

The article says Sharmila Bose's book is inaccurate.

It says but it does not give any solid reasons as to why this book is inaccurate . A lot of people say that about Sharmila`s book . She has made a very valid point in her book . and that is "there is no objective evidence of the alleged genocide , and the number of casualties was less than one lac , including casualties on both sides . The propaganda of genocide was done by Bengalis and Indians for political purposes" ..
Even the die hard believers of this alleged genocide admit that only a few mass graves could be discovered , the claim was "there are over 5000 mass graves"..

 

[INDIC]

It says but it does not give any solid reasons as to why this book is inaccurate . A lot of people say that about Sharmila`s book . She has made a very valid point in her book . and that is "there is no objective evidence of the alleged genocide , and the number of casualties was less than one lac , including casualties on both sides . The propaganda of genocide was done by Bengalis and Indians for political purposes" ..
Even the die hard believers of this alleged genocide admit that only a few mass graves could be discovered , the claim was "there are over 5000 mass graves"..

Because she didn't want to write about them.

 

[flamer84]

I believe it is NOT ONLY German, but also ALL WHITE races, the notorious colonials, are involved in slavery in Africa: Portuguese; Spanish; Dutch; French; British; and American. They just differ in the magnitude!!

----->--------->